willow said:
check p.h. ? do all the basics , any other fert. ? might have a soil fungus . what kind of kitchen scraps ? cal / mag ?
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check p.h. ? do all the basics , any other fert. ? might have a soil fungus . what kind of kitchen scraps ? cal / mag ?
moruga welder said:
Yeh I need some paper to test the soil, got one of those battery ph readers, only ever worked once. Soil fungus is possible, one thing I notices was some soil clumps yesterday, almost looked like a sh*t of some kind, was like tubular soil, almost like something had drilled through the soil and displaced the soil in a clump on top. Looked under them and couldnt find anything. Maybe some rodent perhaps? As for scraps, pretty much everything you could imagine part from meat, well broken down though. Say it is a soil fungus, where do you go from there? No other fert, no cal/mag just some lime, but very little.
willow said:
how long they been this way ? were they like this from the get go ? gotta get some calcium and magnesium in there . hydrogen peroxide ( table strength ) 1 part hyd. 9 parts water mixed in a bucket . water in real good . or start over . soil isn't staying wet is it ? not spraying any poisons for weeds near by ? are you feeding any more nitrogen / ferts ?
moruga welder said:
No Cal/mag to be found here, still looking. Took me month to find some lime. hydrogen peroxide I have and use to clean and kill mold so that makes sense. We do not use any poisons or chemicals, its all organic more or less. Not feeding at all. The amount of goodies that went in there I cant believe they need more so soon. Hard to say when it set in I was away for a month but I am pretty sure its in the last month. . I think I will hydrogen the soil like you say, maybe do some fish emulsion spraying and feeding and see where it gets me, its just a couple of plants and to be honest I can just replace them if they dont improve. Have plenty of seedlings looking for a home. If it happens again then we can probably assume it soil related at least. Top soil is not wet at all as for deep down could well be sucking up ground water constantly as its been soaking wet for 2 months. I still lean towards water problems, but good to look at all the options and these steps will not hurt it. Appreciate your input and time.
your welcome , do you have any in containers ? can you get epsom salt ?
Yes I have a lot in containers. I think you have seen my glog http://thehotpepper.com/topic/60691-let-the-games-begin/
I have heard it might be in a particular store, just not had the time to check it out, but I think so yes. It is on the list.
I have heard it might be in a particular store, just not had the time to check it out, but I think so yes. It is on the list.
Umm... I think that the push to add cal/mag is a little overzealous, in this case.
My plants look EXACTLY like that after heavy rains, and my climate is the most similar.
You are going to have to keep the plants dry, period. Problem: heavy rains interfere with normal uptake of nutrients, as you are essentially "flushing" the soil, repeatedly. This is the inverse of what happens in a calcium deficiency. (lack of calcium makes nutrients unavailable, by reducing uptake) But it looks exactly the same. The soil you've built is calcium sufficient. Your plants would never have gotten that green and that shape, if you had a calcium problem. And beds built with soil are nowhere near as problematic with calcium as container culture, with soilless mixes.
Please don't waste your money on Cal/mag. It's not your problem, right now. Definitely check the PH, and definitely try to get them dry, if you can.
My plants look EXACTLY like that after heavy rains, and my climate is the most similar.
You are going to have to keep the plants dry, period. Problem: heavy rains interfere with normal uptake of nutrients, as you are essentially "flushing" the soil, repeatedly. This is the inverse of what happens in a calcium deficiency. (lack of calcium makes nutrients unavailable, by reducing uptake) But it looks exactly the same. The soil you've built is calcium sufficient. Your plants would never have gotten that green and that shape, if you had a calcium problem. And beds built with soil are nowhere near as problematic with calcium as container culture, with soilless mixes.
Please don't waste your money on Cal/mag. It's not your problem, right now. Definitely check the PH, and definitely try to get them dry, if you can.
I am with you on this most of the way. I have had the water issues on outside plants,had end rot, stem distortion and leaf issues. It did seem different though but then again different varieties and that soil was being flushed massively. The thing about this bed is the soil is definitely not getting flushed. If its too much water its coming from down low and getting sucked up, or perhaps just roots sitting in the base of the bed which is below the surrounding clay bottom layer, but its pretty deep and they are not that big yet so not sure, and thus water sitting in their as well. Ph test for sure. New growth seems pretty decent last few days so quietly confident they will turn around. If I cant keep them dry enough, will just keep them going and then see how they do in the 5 month dry season. See if that that turns them around, will be good to see and help identify the issues.solid7 said:
If the raised bed is touching soil, then you can get the same net effect as flushing, even if you aren't getting water from the top. By putting a raised bed in contact with the soil, you have eliminated the "perched water table", so water that can pass up, can also pass down. That's overly simplistic, for the sake of this discussion. However, regardless of whether, or to what degree, your beds are being flushed, it's the constant water, or standing water that is hurting you.
The water saturation in the soil is causing the oxygen to be used up quickly, and therefore, disrupting the normal uptake of water/nutrient in the root zone. Additionally, you can't expect water to be absorbed, when it's in a constant state or replenishment.
If your plants were ONLY taking water from below by capillary action, there would also be some oxygen being pulled in. But with uncovered plants, that's not the case.
The water saturation in the soil is causing the oxygen to be used up quickly, and therefore, disrupting the normal uptake of water/nutrient in the root zone. Additionally, you can't expect water to be absorbed, when it's in a constant state or replenishment.
If your plants were ONLY taking water from below by capillary action, there would also be some oxygen being pulled in. But with uncovered plants, that's not the case.
TNKS said:
You can add all the calcium you want, but as long as the soil is saturated, you're just pouring your money in.
If the soil is dry, and the problem doesn't resolve, I'll step aside, and let you suggest Cal/Mag all you want.
On your first watering after dry out, you'll need nitrogen, more than anything.
Of course, if you're raising peppers in a tropical or sub-tropical climate, with an average rainfall of more than 60 inches per year - most of which comes down at more than an inch at a time, in less than a half hour span - then I defer to you. You'd definitely know better than me.
cal/mag is just a part of the process of elimination , after he claimed that the beds were dry and the water was coming down in the front side . i first mentioned soil fungus at the beginning which is usually caused by over watering , but was reassured that they weren't . so all is just processes to go through and verify . but i don't see much growth . my plants took on 4 different rains of 4 " and more earlier and showed no such thing . but all of my check list was kept in balance .
how are your container plants doing ?willow said:
Container plants are doing pretty good but I have the soil covered in plastic and the only water they get is rainfall where the stake and stem protrude. A couple with issues but not the same as these plants, even covered a couple have distorted stems from too much water. That said most are not super hots in the containers. Have had a fair few peppers drop especially on the red lanterns, but I think that is just from the intense rainfall constantly hammering the plant and some pesky insect that injects the pepper itself sometimes and they start to rot. Not to mention a few loosing a lot of their flowers to a black waspy thing with a long tail that spikes the flower head and sucks it dry and it just turns brown and drops.
Should also be said the Moruga and choc reaper either side of the two culprit plants are doing very well at the moment. Conditions are basically identical.
Anyone think if the roots are hitting clumps of horse manure this could be shocking the plant. A lot of it was dry but a lot was fresh too, But about 3 months ago, I am so used to everything breaking down here rapidly I just assumed it would do so adequately before the roots came in contact with it,
Should also be said the Moruga and choc reaper either side of the two culprit plants are doing very well at the moment. Conditions are basically identical.
Anyone think if the roots are hitting clumps of horse manure this could be shocking the plant. A lot of it was dry but a lot was fresh too, But about 3 months ago, I am so used to everything breaking down here rapidly I just assumed it would do so adequately before the roots came in contact with it,
See, that's just it... When you mention that, it confirms for me even more that your problem is water related. Fresh poo - even if it doesn't burn your plants - will hold water like nobody's business. It turns to muck, in fact. Not such a problem if top dressed, but clumps mixed in the subsoil might be problematic.
Gotta be honest... YOu may want to put those plants in portable containers until your soil settles. Given where you are, some aeration amendments might be in order, also. I thought that all of your ingredients were ready to go, but I would only ever put fresh manure on top of the soil. (unless it comes out of a rabbit)
Yeh a lot of the manure was good to go, but ran out so just threw the fresh stuff in as I thought it would have time to break down in the hot clmate as long as I kept the soil moist. Probably ended up putting in the plants sooner than I originally thought. This is all great stuff. Live and learn and all that. I didnt think abut it holding the water. PH test done in the top soil when I arrived here was around 6.7 if I remember correctly. I live in the foothills of an ancient volcanic range, around the corner is the second largest inactive volcanic crater in the world where my local town is. How my amendments have effected the ph I do not know. What would you say is the best way to test it, I did have a battery tester which I bought when I got here, followed all the instructions that came with it and from online as I read they were very quirky, but it only worked a couple of times and getting out of it now. Do not want to spend money on another one if I can help it, will litmus paper do just fine?
Do a slurry test. Equal parts by volume of water and soil. Mix thoroughly, allow to sit for a half hour, mix again. Test. Do not use a sample size less than 2 oz. Litmus paper will tell you the exact same thing as the pen, but you'll be relying on your ability to discern color vs read an LED. But it was the way since way back, so...