hybrid Stable cross vs. Clones

Seems like almost every time there is a happy accident / cross pollination / recessive genes popping up in someone's garden there is a new pepper announced.  I like the hobby, so I have no issue with buying the new seeds thinking no way they are stable, growing them for generation and seeing what comes of them.  But I do so with no expectation of getting what is promised because so many people are just.... well wrong about what they are selling.
 
What confuses me is why we do not hear more about pods from F1 hybrid clones.  No, the seeds will not likely grow true... but unless grown differently the pods will taste the same as the mother plant.

Pepper X is my example.  So someone has a happy surprise or maybe an intentional cross that produces a fantastic new pod: The X Pepper.  Who knows what seeds from that pod will grow until many generations of selective seed saving focused on the intended traits?  Ah, but the pods from that mother plant will taste like the pods from that mother plant.  The mother plant can be kept alive for many years and produce many clones with nearly the exact same dna (localized mutations do happen).  The clones from the mother plant can also be kept alive for yeas and provide many clones.  Yes, you loose vigor after so many cloned clones but done right, you could have literally millions of plants before that happens.

By doing this, the person who discovers or creates a fantastic new pepper has pods to sell while s/he tries to grow out the hybrid into something stable.  If the thing is popular, s/he could sell the pods to fund growing out the hybrid till stable.  People who buy the pods could feel like they were involved in developing Pepper X.  As they do, they'd likely post reviews and improve public awareness of the new pepper.  Everyone wins.

Now if you are like most people, at this point you are saying growers do not want the seeds for a new pepper getting loose.  Thing is, those seeds are not stable, they wont grow the same pepper.  Sure, people will claim they are growing it but they do that already. 

So I wonder, is it that the market is more focused on seeds than pods that folk do not do this?
 
Thoughts?
 
hogleg said:
I believe its happening more than you or I think, in tight knit circles. Further more whats wrong with weed terms in the pepper world? Indoor pepper growers should be grateful the canna growers laid the tracks and worked out the kinks for them.
 
FIM'ing worked great for me in '13 and I'll be there again in a couple of months:
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/38605-grantmichaels-2013-2015/?p=818433
 
Thanks folks ....
Just to be clear, the "our" I was talking about was all people, not "our" as in folks here who grow ...
 
Goggle up the Red Savina Pepper. That should answer some of your questions. As for cloning, I would only implore that to keep the line of a mother's genetic's wanted to improve on therefore creating stock that I would use for future work. ie.. disease, drought, mold and or what ever I am trying to improve on for that cultivar. Hybrids are a different story. You now have to deal with 2 parent plants and the gene pool from both plants. This is where your selective breeding come into play in order to isolate the dominate and recessive genes according to what you are actually trying to accomplish with that particular cultivar. It can take years to stabilize a hybrid. Pink Tiger Pepper's are just 1 example. Seeds are sold in the hope's that  you can get that particular phenotype.
 
Grant, on cloning having a bad rep.  Yep, I mentioned it in the context of organic growing, someone was shocked.  Clones aren't organic.  I explained that I can clone using nothing but water, little pebbles and rocks.  They were all, but it is not natural.  I explained that blackberry often clone themselves.  Branch touches ground, sets roots, presto same genetics more or less.  They were all like, that is not cloning.  Cloning is artificial and yada yada.  Wanted to slap them with a wet flounder.  No really, i am worse face to face when someone is flat wrong and wont listen.  Cloning can be organic.  Happens in nature all the time.

Hogleg, I agree 100% that if not for weed growers the tech just wouldnt be there for people to grow less high dollar crops.  If not for porn sites, i doubt internet tech would have grown as fast.  We might think it's fat bottom girls, but it is really profits that make the world go round.  BTW: I love being the only one at the grow shop that doesnt wink when he says tomato or peppers.  Kind of hoping to get raided some day when the kids aren't here.  Officer, you are about to feel really really silly.

Organic Pepper, love the name BTW.  On Red Savina, I think I had read that the exact method of its creation was not known, that the guy never said.  On cloning, why not use it for pod production if you have something special you are growing out?  I think if Chocolate Bhutlah SM were available here, people would buy the boxes of pods up left and right.  The guy could then fund growing it out & people who bought the peppers would be really happy to know they were helping a good cause.

Then again, I am a horrible judge of human nature.  Maybe people wouldnt care to help.  I dont know.  I am just kind of pondering ways for guys like him to make a buck while developing a line.

 
 
The gen shouldn't matter if you're going to clone. Why bother with F1 if you have a F4 pink tiger with stripes? That should be clone over one that is less desirable. I think the primary issue with cloning is storage and it being a pain to ship.
 
Dulac, I used F1 as an example because I was thinking the happy surprises that sometimes occur.  You are absolutely right, clone of which ever is the best example.

Wasn't thinking the breeder would ship plants, was thinking pods. 
 
ajdrew said:
Dulac, I used F1 as an example because I was thinking the happy surprises that sometimes occur.  You are absolutely right, clone of which ever is the best example.

Wasn't thinking the breeder would ship plants, was thinking pods. 
 
Oh, are you saying an individual breeder should clone the F1s for more F2 seeds? I bet breeders doing it on a large scale do this. I get plenty of F2s with my F1 hybrids. If I don't (such as my F1s (7 pot Jonah x pimenta de Neyde) x Trinidad Scorpion Moruga, which very due to the half of it being unstable. I have limited space to overwinter them. I had to choose between two very nice versions of that particular cross. Now that I think about it, perhaps cloning small branches would save on space.
 
Edit: I think I will try cloning small branches of hybrids I like this season in solo cups. That's a good idea to conserve on space. I've been always thinking to progress with stability rather than keeping the hybrids. This is mostly due to space, but you can always keep stuff small.
 
Dulac, was not going there specifically but that is another good use of the technique.  I was going for pod production as a whole.  Happy mistakes usually come one at a time.  Had a chocolate reaper pop up out of no where.  Small plant.  Did seed save, but also cloned, cloned, cloned.  Much seeds much faster.  More F1 seeds means more plants to cull, so probably a better selection fo each generation.  Seems like cloning is an underused technique.

BTW: Got two kids, solo cups are the best.  Less dishes.  Rinse and reuse.

 
 
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