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Taste for hot foods genetic?

cruzzfish said:
First one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resiniferatoxin whether or not cap could do this if you where very sensitive, young, unaccustomed to it, and the pepper was hotter than normal is  possible but very unlikely. I had to type that in a hurry. Sodium was the wrong word, caused by being mildly conscious. The blistering effect caused by a natural defense mechanism in response to a fire, real or perceived, takes the top layer of cells with it. If this is repeated, particularly if a person is extra sensitive to it, permanent scarring could occur, and the person in question did, in fact, eat them for a prolonged period of time.
 
Second: Tiger attack was an example. Could have been plenty of other things, such as not vomiting out what limited food you could find, to the toughness factor to impress others in the village. If a hunter gatherer is in the middle of cap cramp, he's gonna have a lot harder a time fighting something off. Especially if he's never felt cap before. As such, the poor fool who consumed one prior to needing to defend himself/right after eating his one meal of the day is gonna have a much harder time surviving than someone who didn't. Even better, the guy who can eat them, get the nutrients, and not vomit them out would have several advantages. First, the other tribesmen would be impressed, thus increasing his social standing and therefore chances of procreation, and he would also be healthier. Civilizations took a good while to take root, just look at how close the American settlers came to perishing, and that was with the natives helping them. Imagine how much harder the first natives had in an environment they had never seen before. As such, a person with cap tolerance/immunity would do just marginally better so as to allow a small portion of the population would have immunity/increased tolerance.
 
Your last comment made me die inside. If you worded it poorly, you're forgiven. If not, I'm going to go break out the Punnet charts, even if they're not the most exact things out there. Genes have to mutate randomly, THEN the changes that they make in the organism can determine how well that gene is going to be passed down. If the gene that would produce a change allowing an organism to survive is present in no members of the population at the time it would be needed, it is not gonna show up. That organism is gonna die out completely.(again, forgive me if that is what you where trying to say. What you where saying seems to have been that the change in genome would manifest in response to the environment)
 
"1st off, "tolerence" is purely genetic. It is the upregulation and downregulation of neuroreceptors in response to the environment, giving rise to a need for greater stimulation to get the same effect as what was occurring prior to the changes. The DA pathway from the ventral tegmental area to the nucleus accumbens is sensitized, making the pleasure more efficient, which is the pathway of pleasure, obsessions, and addiction"  
 
Are you trying to describe what tolerance is genetically, because if so you goofed. If not, than you are doing a very good job describing what adaptive tolerance is. 
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I was describing tolerence as it is in neuroscience and I had suspected that you were getting your information from Wikipedia.
 
cruzzfish said:
First one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resiniferatoxin whether or not cap could do this if you where very sensitive, young, unaccustomed to it, and the pepper was hotter than normal is  possible but very unlikely. I had to type that in a hurry. Sodium was the wrong word, caused by being mildly conscious. The blistering effect caused by a natural defense mechanism in response to a fire, real or perceived, takes the top layer of cells with it. If this is repeated, particularly if a person is extra sensitive to it, permanent scarring could occur, and the person in question did, in fact, eat them for a prolonged period of time.
 
Second: Tiger attack was an example. Could have been plenty of other things, such as not vomiting out what limited food you could find, to the toughness factor to impress others in the village. If a hunter gatherer is in the middle of cap cramp, he's gonna have a lot harder a time fighting something off. Especially if he's never felt cap before. As such, the poor fool who consumed one prior to needing to defend himself/right after eating his one meal of the day is gonna have a much harder time surviving than someone who didn't. Even better, the guy who can eat them, get the nutrients, and not vomit them out would have several advantages. First, the other tribesmen would be impressed, thus increasing his social standing and therefore chances of procreation, and he would also be healthier. Civilizations took a good while to take root, just look at how close the American settlers came to perishing, and that was with the natives helping them. Imagine how much harder the first natives had in an environment they had never seen before. As such, a person with cap tolerance/immunity would do just marginally better so as to allow a small portion of the population would have immunity/increased tolerance.
 
Your last comment made me die inside. If you worded it poorly, you're forgiven. If not, I'm going to go break out the Punnet charts, even if they're not the most exact things out there. Genes have to mutate randomly, THEN the changes that they make in the organism can determine how well that gene is going to be passed down. If the gene that would produce a change allowing an organism to survive is present in no members of the population at the time it would be needed, it is not gonna show up. That organism is gonna die out completely.(again, forgive me if that is what you where trying to say. What you where saying seems to have been that the change in genome would manifest in response to the environment)
 
"1st off, "tolerence" is purely genetic. It is the upregulation and downregulation of neuroreceptors in response to the environment, giving rise to a need for greater stimulation to get the same effect as what was occurring prior to the changes. The DA pathway from the ventral tegmental area to the nucleus accumbens is sensitized, making the pleasure more efficient, which is the pathway of pleasure, obsessions, and addiction"  
 
Are you trying to describe what tolerance is genetically, because if so you goofed. If not, than you are doing a very good job describing what adaptive tolerance is. 
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So you have no clue what you are writing about and are admitting that you are wiki-searching something you cannot explain. So sodium is not what you "meant", it was just a glitch due to fast typing. So you believe that tolerence is something other than tolerence when you are using the word tolerence in the context of genetics.

Trust me, anyone with an education in these things was convinced from the moment you began spewing telegraphic psychobabble that you were wiki-hunting with no clue about the subject. Punnett squares? Those will not get you where you need to be when tracing a polygenic trait's neuropathway.

The fact that you are providing your own counterarguments between arguments is indicative of your own lack of understanding of the premises and conclusions you provide. If you don't mean to say something, don't say it.

He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know. You speak too much for knowing too little.
 
ms1476 said:
So you have no clue what you are writing about and are admitting that you are wiki-searching something you cannot explain. So sodium is not what you "meant", it was just a glitch due to fast typing. So you believe that tolerence is something other than tolerence when you are using the word tolerence in the context of genetics.

Trust me, anyone with an education in these things was convinced from the moment you began spewing telegraphic psychobabble that you were wiki-hunting with no clue about the subject. Punnett squares? Those will not get you where you need to be when tracing a polygenic trait's neuropathway.

The fact that you are providing your own counterarguments between arguments is indicative of your own lack of understanding of the premises and conclusions you provide. If you don't mean to say something, don't say it.

He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know. You speak too much for knowing too little.
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We can continue this onto PM, there is no need to trash up a perfectly good thread any more than it is. Wikisearch for the first one, which I am admittedly less knowledgeable on than I'd like to be. I'm only really concerned with the natural selection half of it. These are two vastly separate arguments. I was being contradictory in the first one only, the second half was perfectly sound. I am not concerned with chasing a neuropathway at all. Merely with explaining how a beneficial gene in causing higher tolerance to cap would get passed down better. And I am QUITE good at evolutionary mechanics on my own.
 
taste for hot food/spice is NOT genetic nor related to alcoholism, theres people on every scale with those 2 theories that can go both ways if they like or hate HOT while being or nor are they alcoholics or their genetic race.
IMO you grew up surrounded by heat & you grew up liking hot spice or you just grew a taste to like hot spice. or you grew up around spice and hated it & don't eat spice.
forget all your theories and realize its all in someones tastebuds  if they like HOT or not.
 
Who said anything about alcoholism? If you where really drunk maybe, but only when you're drunk and someone dares you. And if it's enjoyable, you're probably dieing of alchohol poisoning.
 
cruzzfish - your recent post was changed, alcoholism was mentioned in a previous post from someone else.
 
I truly believe a persons genetics has something to do with that persons life/health as to what will happen to them or ?
but to say genetics will tell you what you like to eat ?.....NO!!!!!!!
 
if you believe that then please explain to me how some people from certain ethnic races that in general love HOT & SPICY foods you'll find many of those people don't like hot & spicy foods......while theres some people from certain ethnic races that in general are not custom to hot & spicy but theres some offspring that LOVE HOT & SPICY !
 
as for alcoholism in a previous post, I've met people on both ends......so that's not 100% true either.
 
if you're curious take a poll here on THP, I bet theres at least half (if not more) gringos here on this site that loves HOT !
 
if genetics control your life, then whats the genetic code for druggies, thieves, politicians, prostitutes, lazy entitlement generation......?
 
Here is a link to a brief article covering the study I mentioned about alcoholism:
 
http://www.recoveryranch.com/articles/addiction-research/spicy-food-lovers-more-likely-to-suffer-from-alcoholism/
 
I have not been able to locate the study in its entirety. May have to search in Korean or something.
 
 
chilehunter said:
as for alcoholism in a previous post, I've met people on both ends......so that's not 100% true either.
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At no point did I say that everyone who likes spicy food is an alcoholic, nor did I say that everyone who is an alcoholic likes spicy foods. Obviously that is not the case. Making such a claim would be irrational. I simply pointed to a study that showed a strong correlation between the two. 
 
In fact, I also pointed to another study in my post that provided an example of how taste CAN be affected by genetics in some situations. Here is a link to an article talking about that one as well:
 
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/inheritance/ptc/
 
 
 
chilehunter said:
if genetics control your life, then whats the genetic code for druggies, thieves, politicians, prostitutes, lazy entitlement generation......?
Click to expand...
 
I believe I heard not too long ago that researchers have found genes and brain abnormalities common to killers that may predispose them to the behavior.. Food for thought on that topic.
 
You can also go back to my post and note that I contributed it to not only the possibility of genetics, but also what an individual is exposed to. That absolutely plays into the equation. Maybe more than genetics. I'm not claiming to know like you did here:
 
chilehunter said:
taste for hot food/spice is NOT genetic
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You ought to have some sort of evidence to support a proposition like that. That's how science works.
 
What I did was present some ideas with research to back it up. And if this:
 
 
chilehunter said:
I've met people on both ends
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Is enough to back up your claim, then the fact that my dad is an alcoholic, responded extremely well to naltrexone, and loves spicy food must be enough evidence to support mine. But I would never really think that because one example is no where near enough.
 
Honestly, I think it's absurd to imply that anything regarding our physiology is not at least somehow affected by genes. They do contain the information that leads to the formation of every single cell in our body after all. They are, as Ron Burgundy would say, kind of a big deal.
 
Alcoholism is an addiction just like the love for capsaicin.
 
Anytime I see a study linking one drug addiction to another I roll my eyes. It's the person, not the drugs.
 
ie... a drinker is more likely to smoke... when it's really that an addictive personality is likely to use more than one drug.
 
Epigenetics probably plays some role. But the endorphin release probably plays a bigger role.
 
ms1476 said:
The DA pathway from the ventral tegmental area to the nucleus accumbens is sensitized, making the pleasure more efficient, which is the pathway of pleasure, obsessions, and addiction.
Click to expand...
 
This is why I mentioned alcoholism. Alcoholism is strongly genetic. This love of spicy foods works on our reward system the same way alcoholism does. Could you not be predisposed to like spicy food as well???
 
Pepperjack91 said:
 
This is why I mentioned alcoholism. Alcoholism is strongly genetic. This love of spicy foods works on our reward system the same way alcoholism does. Could you not be predisposed to like spicy food as well???
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Probably. If a mother likes the heat that gene will switch on and not reset in children as previously thought. However, it can switch back off if they dont get the spice.

ms1476 said:
 We evolve constantly, and the finding 20 years ago that plasticity occurs at every step of the process is support for the fact that nothing adverse at any stage of the process is absolute.

1st off, "tolerence" is purely genetic.
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I didnt even change the order, i just erased everything else (nothing in between these two).
 
I just wanted to point out how you said nothing is absolute then followed it with an absolute.
 
Besides the fact that genetics arent even absolute. Given the fact that nurture over nature has been winning the debate.
 
Wow! I'm glad I've provoked so much thought and conversation! Thought is good. :)

So to elaborate in a different context perhaps;

If you were to take 2 adult people from completely different genetic backgrounds, neither of which had ever consumed capsaicin, and give them both an equal weight of say, Carolina Reaper powder. Would they both feel the exact same level of burn?

If not, what could be responsible other than inherent genetics?


Oh, and on a related, more enjoyable note: as a child, first traveling to Mexico (6 or 7 years old), I would pick chunks of orange hab put of the salsa to munch on, to everybody's disbelief.

My sister hates spicy foods, and I once switched a piece of my "Volcano Beef" with her "Broccoli Beef" and about killed her mid-meal. lol
 
About alcoholism, is it genetic or just the fact that a kid who grows up watching his parents drink too much during the day is going to be more likely to drink. Would an adopted person in an alcoholic family not be an alcoholic, and would a person who was given from an alcoholic family into one that doesn't drink still go find alcohol?
 
My last post was changed because I typed it tired, and that has the same affect as being drunk according to some studies. Previous one was because I had another point to make without putting in a whole new one.  
 
Number of receptors to start with is passed down, but new ones can grow depending on conditions, as are how sensitive they are and how you respond to what they tell you. Kinda like how there are some people who find greens really bitter, but others who can't taste it at all. 
 
"My sister hates spicy foods, and I once switched a piece of my "Volcano Beef" with her "Broccoli Beef" and about killed her mid-meal. lol"
 
My sig says all there is to say about the kinda stuff I get up to. Yesterday there was an incident involving BSPH's sauce and a hotdog. I said it was "pretty hot" and tough guy wouldn't listen. And this was after everyone said not to take anything I have in an unmarked box.
 
cruzzfish said:
About alcoholism, is it genetic or just the fact that a kid who grows up watching his parents drink too much during the day is going to be more likely to drink. Would an adopted person in an alcoholic family not be an alcoholic, and would a person who was given from an alcoholic family into one that doesn't drink still go find alcohol?
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One's environment plays into it no doubt. But a lot of evidence shows that genes do to. I look at it like the environment prompts one to drink and the genes keep them coming back. It runs strongly in my family. I've felt the grips of alcoholism on my own mind. The environment of a fraternity influenced me to drink. And my alcoholic genes caused the feeling I had that made me start drinking less.
illWill said:
If you were to take 2 adult people from completely different genetic backgrounds, neither of which had ever consumed capsaicin, and give them both an equal weight of say, Carolina Reaper powder. Would they both feel the exact same level of burn?
Click to expand...
 
I've head theories that everyone sees colors slightly differently because of differences in the way our photoreceptors and brain process them. Of course this is subjective and can't really be tested (not yet at least). What you said kinda reminded me of that. I think experiencing the burn from peppers could be this way as well.
 
I dunno if color variance test can be done. It;s not like they would know their color is any different than someone else's. We can assume that due to brain differences it is, but how much is unknown.
 
To people with increased or decreased sensitivity they are different colors.

Like computers from 20 years ago compared to today.
 
I'm going to have to go back and read through all this again just to be sure I'm following what all had been said so far. Speaking purely from expierence I tend to think its more of an environmental than a genetic factor that leads to the love of heat. Growing up in Texas where everyone ate spicy foods and were introduced to it at an early age, I just can't see that many people in a single given area all coming from genetics.
 
EDIT:
 
What I can see as a possible genetic influence would be the persons threshold to pain, if it's genetically influenced. Having lived for the last 15 years with Degenerative Disk Disease across multiple levels in my lumbar region and having been prescribed pain meds from ibuprofen up to spending 2 years taking Methadone I can see the possibility of addiction. Addiction to the Endorphin Rush associated with eating Super Hots not to the peppers themselves. One of the big points to addiction though is personality, well refered to as having a Addictive or a Nonaddictive Personality. for example, I'm fortunate enough to have a Nonaddictive Personality and after taking progressively harder and harder pain killers over a 5 year period was able to walk away form them with little effort and no desire to return to taking them. So, unless that personality type is a genetic thing as well, I wouldn't think that the addiction would be genetic. 
 
Interestingly enough though I have found that after I moved to eating Super Hots, no I don't typically consume them raw by themselves, I have less pain than I did before. Whether this is caused by an increased tolerance to pain or by some side effect to consuming Cap, there is scientific evidence that it provides some element that blocks pain receptor, I can't say. Only that I have less pain now and can now control it with occasional 800 mg Ibuprofen.
 
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