The controversial pepper

G

Gonzo

Yes the controversial "peppadew" pepper.
 
Why controversial? We will get into that now.
 
Many of you have heard the name,questioned were to get the seed,it's such a mystery pepper that no one knows too much about it.
 
You see i'm from south africa and we love this pepper over here,we buy them pickled in a bottle and i believe they are sold in other countries for the past few years now.
 
So why controversial?
 
I did some research into this,but i found this post from a blog talking about it so i will quote and link for others here.
 
"Businessman and farmer, Johan Steenkamp, first discovered the sweet piquant pepper at his holiday home in the Eastern Cape in 1993. He spotted an unusual-looking bush, standing head high, laden with small bright red fruit which looked like something between miniature red peppers and cherry tomatoes. He bit into one. It had a unique, delicious taste – a mixture of peppery and sweet, but with a distinctive flavor. Believing that he had hit upon something really new, he saved seeds from the ripened fruit of the mother plant, and cultivated them at his Tzaneen farm in the Limpopo Province of South Africa. He started off bottling and selling the product as a small cottage industry. Steenkamp had botanists at the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research verify that the Peppadew was a separate variety of chili plant that had sprung up, and he established the trademarks, and registered international plant breeders’ rights for that pepper plant. He formed the company Peppadew International."
 
Now let me quote from wikipedia what the plant breeders rights have to say:
 
"Plant breeders' rights (PBR), also known as plant variety rights (PVR), are rights granted to the breeder of a new variety of plant that give the breeder exclusive control over the propagating material (including seed, cuttings, divisions, tissue culture) and harvested material (cut flowers, fruit, foliage) of a new variety for a number of years."
 
So..
 
The PBR states that a plant has to be a NEW VARIETY. This is what my local PBR states on the government website.
 
"A plant breeder's right is a form of Intellectual Property Right providing for the acquisition of legal rights in terms of the Plant Breeders' Rights Act, 1976 (Act No 15 of 1976), in order to obtain royalties as remuneration for efforts made during the breeding of a new variety of a plant."
 
So clearly this states it has to be a new breeded variety,we all can understand that a company can have full rights on a hybrid they created. But they have no right to lay claim to original seed,which 
is the case with the peppadew pepper. Johan steenkamp did not breed this variety of pepper,he simply found it by accident,this pepper obviously came from somewhere and is not native to 
south africa.
 
The pepper is protected by the peppedaw company preventing anyone from growing it commercially let alone grow for themselves,even tho plenty of home gardeners grow it.
 
What do you think about this,any business owners who have pbr rights and care to elaborate what you think
 
Link to blog-->
 
https://zunckelecological.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/pickle-your-peppadews-and-make-a-natural-pesticide-with-the-seeds/
 
 
 
 
 
 
Interesting to read..do these so called "PBR"  expire at some point? I was given some seeds last fall & have a seedling growing now,as I was always curious as to what the taste is like? I understand that a certain New Jersey grower has the yellow variety so I will follow & see if they end up in my area and I can get some seeds.
Thanks for sharing the information &  :welcome:  to THP.
 
 
 
 
wiriwiri said:
Interesting to read..do these so called "PBR" rights expire at some point? I was given some seeds last fall & have a seedling growing now,as I was always curious as to what the taste is like? I understand that a certain New Jersey grower has the yellow variety so I will follow & see if they end up in my area and I can get some seeds.
Thanks for sharing the information &  :welcome:  to THP.
What's on your grow list for 2017? :P
 
Sandy
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A yellow one? Interesting,would love to hear from them and see a picture. (Pm the username)
 
I would say they are like a red bell pepper,as they have a sweet taste to them but with a little bite to them.
 
I would say they are a pepper that everyone would enjoy. 
 
As for your question,this is from wiki:
 
"exclusive rights are granted for a specified period (typically 20/25 years (or 25/30 years, for trees and vines). Annual renewal fees are required to maintain the rights"
 
You can trademark a name,you can not say that a natural seed is intellectual property. 
 
Hence why this pepper is such an interesting topic for me.
 
I was wondering if these plant protection and or plant patents are honored worldwide or just the country that granted patents or protection?
 
mpicante said:
I was wondering if these plant protection and or plant patents are honored worldwide or just the country that granted patents or protection?
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Technically; not even in the country they are issued in, but this stuff rarely goes to court.  The Red Savina was the only chile I know of to ever hold protected status in the US and the owner of that one let it lapse once he realized it wasn't remotely enforceable.  There's a reason you only ever see startups or individuals pursue such petty things.  Rule #1 of litigation is to never sue unless you are 100% certain you can collect enough to make a win worthwhile.  Established companies just trademark a name and defend it locally, because it is the maximum return for the minimal expenditure.
 
After all, you don't get to go to court and say "he stole my thing!"  You have to go to court and prove that you can legitimately claim ownership of the thing in the first place.  Assuming the court accepts that you can even claim ownership to begin with, you must then prove that the other party does not have even a marginal right to ownership.  Many people have found out the hard way that the most official document from the highest authority means as much as a note from your mother unless backed up by existing precedent and the court's interpretation of applicable written law.  Proving ownership as the prosecution can be very difficult.
 
Case in point, Michael Jordan (of NBA fame) legitimately lost trademarks to himself in China by suing a non-competitive startup clothing company for infringement.  His subsequent attempts only wasted his own money and strengthened legal precedent against cases like his.  (Turns out the shadow of a dude playing basketball, the number 23, and the name Jordan are not exactly rare enough worldwide to bar all companies from using them ever...lol!)  :D
 
In the case of the Peppadew/ Malawi piquant , it is a beautiful and productive plant with a few very slight variations in taste and phenotype. The success of the Peppadew is more in the pickling process . To keep the colour and crispyness , loose some heat and add a bit of sweetness , that is the trick .
 
They want you to think only they have the special pepper , but not true.
Only they know the special recipe to process/pickle it  ( of course I think mine is better.)
 
It is a very nice Baccatum to grow . I also pickle it , but loose some colour and like to keep more heat in .
It is an excellent pepper to dry as well.
 
Check out the post in my glog dedicated to the Piquant.
 
Swartmamba said:
You can buy peppadew seeds sold as malawi piquante.
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Yes everyone knows them by that name,but they are not for sale. 
 
 
Some online places might claim to sell them,but it might not be the correct one.
 
This is from
 
Article about someone also trying to dig into the peppadew story,and sourcing seeds. 
http://www.citypaper.com/news/features/bcp-022916-eat-peppadew-20160302-story.html
 
This is quoted from a interview with phil ovens who bought the company from Mr steenkamp in 2000.
 
" Johan Steenkamp had already secured plant breeder rights in South Africa and in 2000, when Ovens took over, the EU, Australia and the US were about to be finalised. He explains how the rights work: “Very simply, it’s a bit like a patent in that it gives the person who discovered or created something protection from competition for a period of time to allow them to commercially exploit their discovery. And what’s important is that not only does it preclude other people from growing the product in those regions where we hold rights, but it also prevents people from other regions from selling the product in the areas where we have protection.”
 
This is my local plant breeders rights act:
http://www.gov.za/services/plant-production/plant-breeders-rights
 
 
It states that a crop holds pbr for 20 years,it does not mention renewing it to resecure the rights.
 
The pickling patent was aquired in 2001,still need the find out when the pepper got PBR
 
Here is the patent documents i found for the process of the pickling,i have yet to find a document about the PBR not sure if it's available for the public to see.
 
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6251453.html
 
I still need to look into the UPOV(International union for the protection of new varieties of plants) what exactly they say how long it remains protected under them.
 
The more you look into this it just show the scary reality of how our seeds are getting patented and taken out of the hands of the public.
 
I wonder what people will do if all seed is one day controlled by governments,no seed saving,no distributing..sounds damn scary.
 
Actually heard john from growing your greens say,giving seeds to your neighbour is illegal in america,i also heard some states doesn't allow rain harvesting.
Sound like a police state over there,not the land of the free :scared:
 
Anyway its just crazy to think a plant that was found can be claimed as intellectual property,it's just absurd 
 
 
 
Like I said ,
They want you to believe that the magic is just in the certain plant that they grow , but it is not that different from what you can grow yourself. That is why the new owners will stick to the hype of the "plant protection" to keep their product exclusive. There are quite a few generics on the market already.
 
My three biggest critics , daughters aged 16, 19, 21 , believe my pickled piquant is better. :dance:  :party:
 
 
karoo said:
Like I said ,
They want you to believe that the magic is just in the certain plant that they grow , but it is not that different from what you can grow yourself. That is why the new owners will stick to the hype of the "plant protection" to keep their product exclusive. There are quite a few generics on the market already.
 
My three biggest critics , daughters aged 16, 19, 21 , believe my pickled piquant is better. :dance:  :party:
 
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Yip i know what you are saying,i'm just trying to find out some info on this pepper seeing so many people have also wondered over the years.
 
And i'm questioning how they came upon it to say that this is "new variety" when it clearly is not.
 
I'm going to check out your glog later tonight.
 
PS: You need to give me that recipe to see if i agree with them :P  
 
Gonzo i am from South africa originally too and belive me the seeds from refining fire are exactly the same as peppadew in SA.

One of my favorite peppers for pickling and adding to pizza, stews or anything really.

Imo one of the must grow for flavour not heat
 
Gonzo said:
 
The PBR states that a plant has to be a NEW VARIETY. This is what my local PBR states on the government website.
 
 
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I find it quite normal that there is a Plant breeders' rights on this variety even if it is of natural origin. The person who finds it is the one who chooses to multiply it or leave it there. It is not the only example of plant found that has a PBR, I am horticulturist for several years and in the field of ornamental plants there are several that were recorded. Whether it is for a different color or port it is a new variety and the person who finds it has the right to pay $ 250 to get a PBR
 
exemple: weeping spruce found in the wood, then have been multiply and sell with PBR
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you just have to find seeds for peppadew and grow it.
Then eat them But don't seel them and you won't have any problem
 
Slug said:
The Red Savina was the only chile I know of to ever hold protected status in the US and the owner of that one let it lapse once he realized it wasn't remotely enforceable.
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And you know what's funny? The Red Savina Wiki page reports "Frank Garcia of GNS Spices, in Walnut, California, is credited with being the developer of the Red Savina habanero. The exact method Garcia used to select the hottest strains is not publicly known." Developer? The exact method Garcia used to select the hottest strains is not publicly known.? Funny there's no mention of him finding it in a field of orange habs? 

While plowing, Frank noticed one strange red pepper among a field of typical orange habaneros.
 
Frank Garcia, one of the owners of GNS Spices, found a plant with red pods in his field of orange-podded plants. 
 
The story goes that Frank was plowing under a large field of orange Habaneros rather then sell them at a much cheaper price then that which was negotiated for before planting. In the process of distorting the crop he spotted a plant with red fruit growing in the field. One red fruited plant among all these orange ones was rather odd and got his attention. He stopped the tractor, plucked up the plant and tossed it on the tractor and forgot about it for a while. 
 
As the story goes, a grower named Frank Garcia was plowing under a field of orange habanero peppers in 1989 when he spotted an odd, lone red fruited plant.
 
A piece of advice Gonzo, don't believe everything you read on the web especially WikiPedia as the articles are written by subscribers, not experts on the subject. YMMV
 
`
 
Quote ;
you just have to find seeds for peppadew and grow it.
Then eat them But don't seel them and you won't have any problem
 
No , you may grow them and sell them and pickle them and sell the red pickled peppers ,
 BUT you may not call them " Peppadew"
 
floricole said:
 
 
I find it quite normal that there is a Plant breeders' rights on this variety even if it is of natural origin. The person who finds it is the one who chooses to multiply it or leave it there. It is not the only example of plant found that has a PBR, I am horticulturist for several years and in the field of ornamental plants there are several that were recorded. Whether it is for a different color or port it is a new variety and the person who finds it has the right to pay $ 250 to get a PBR
 
exemple: weeping spruce found in the wood, then have been multiply and sell with PBR
 
Click to expand...
Not normal to me,i always thought a new bred variety aka gmo seed can have rights not a plant that was "found" and then they lay claim to it,to me this is wrong on all levels.
 
Plant breeders say it must be a new variety but the pepper belongs to the capsicum baccatum family,so technically it's not new?
 
Who is to say it was not used by people for centuries somewhere,maybe they are still growing it? The pepper is also not native to south africa,as the story from the owner confirms this.
 
You can not own a thing that occurs naturally in nature,you can trademark your product and do what you want but others should also be allowed to use it for commercial use.
 
Gonzo said:
And i'm questioning how they came upon it to say that this is "new variety" when it clearly is not.
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Seems your government allows it?> South African Goverment - Plant Breeders Rights
 
To be granted plant breeders’ rights, plant varieties must be new, distinct, uniform, stable (DUS) and have an acceptable denomination (variety name). A variety is considered:
 
_New if the propagating material:
 
_(seed or cutting from a plant) of a variety has not been sold in South Africa for longer than one year  
_of a variety of a tree or of a vine has not been commercialised in another  country for more than six years, or in the case of any other plant for more than four years
_distinct if it is clearly distinguishable from any other variety of the same species
_uniform if the plants of a variety look similar and are sufficiently uniform in relevant characteristics
_Stable if the plants of the particular variety still look like the original plants after repeated cultivation.
 
`
 
The whole story is bs. The truth is the Peppadew was selected by an agribusiness from bog standard Capsicum baccatum. The "variety" does not have a PERSONAL as it is not unique. The name is a trademark and can't be used to differentiate it by anyone other than the owner.
 
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