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There is a problem with my 3 years old Jamaican hot chocolate

A

Andrey

Hello colleagues. There is a problem with my 3 years old Jamaican hot chocolate, young leaves fade, curl up and dry, the flowers fall off. No pests detected. I use the kratky method. Fertilizer 3.15.34, calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate, 3: 3: 2 grams, respectively, per 5 liters. At the same time, Ph 6, TDS is about 1000. Yaki Blue is standing next to him and doing good. Help me, what should I do?
 
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If your ferts are 3-15-34, as in NPK/3-15-34, then you have a ridiculous amount of potassium and phosphorus, and you may want to see what phosphorus locks up at high concentrations.  If memory serves, it interferes with Zinc and Iron.  Phosphorus dosed at 10 times the rate of Nitrogen sounds like toxic levels, to me.
 
You never need to exceed Nitrogen with Phosphorus and Potassium.  And especially not at those ratios.

Also, Kratky isn't ideal for peppers.  Maybe this method is OK up to a certain age, or plant size?
 
 
 
Hydroponic?   most of the time, nutrient is the main problem.  also check the root system.  is it damaged?  iron, calcium, magnesium on leaves can occur even there is more than enough amount of these elements in  a solution.   
 
 
solid7 said:
Also, Kratky isn't ideal for peppers.  Maybe this method is OK up to a certain age, or plant size?
Click to expand...
 
no worry.   i did grow pepper plant successfully using Kratky method.   
 
lek said:
 
no worry.   i did grow pepper plant successfully using Kratky method.   
Click to expand...
 
I said that it "wasn't ideal" and that perhaps the method isn't good after a certain age. My specific point being that maybe there is a relationship between root mass and container size/nutrient solution volume.
 
Clearly, the OP has also grown pepper successfully with Kratky.  But there's a problem NOW.  Is the age a factor?
 
I'm still guessing that with that particular fertilizer, something has built up to a very unhappy level.  OP, can you flush that plant, and get some sort of decent fert?  Worst case, balanced with low numbers? (3-3-3 would be fine)
 
He is adding equal amount of calcium nitrate to the other fertilizer. That is a 15.5-0-0 nutrient and around 19% calcium. Using it all the time in that quantity could be part of the problem. It also sounds to me like the epsom salt amount is way too high. IIRC you only need around a 5th as much magnesium as the calcium.
 
So thats 18.5-15-34 right?
 
Good call.  Didn't  catch that.
 
Either way, this is a very "hot" nutrient for all the time use.  And that P level is completely off the deep end.  This doesn't look like nutrient burn, but it does look something isn't playing well together with something else.  Not a deficiency, but maybe trickier...
 
 
 
solid7 said:
Good call.  Didn't  catch that.
 
Either way, this is a very "hot" nutrient for all the time use.  And that P level is completely off the deep end.  This doesn't look like nutrient burn, but it does look something isn't playing well together with something else.  Not a deficiency, but maybe trickier...
 
 
Click to expand...
I'm using this method according this videos, I'm dong something wrong?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3TmEFZIq3s&t=7s
 
5 Gallons water 12 G Masterblend 12 G Calcium Nitrate 6 G Magnesium Sulfate
Jast calc it to 5 liter way 3 3 2
They recomend use it all the time

My "Masterblend" is N3:P15:K34:Mg2
 
Andrey said:
I'm using this method according this videos, I'm dong something wrong?
5 Gallons water 12 G Masterblend 12 G Calcium Nitrate 6 G Magnesium Sulfate
They recomend use it all the time
Click to expand...
 
Not necessarily you.  Not everyone who puts videos on the internet gives the whole story, or necessarily has the understanding to go with their good luck. ;)
.
Are you using tap water?  If so, do you know what's in your tap water? (have you ever had a water quality analysis report)
 
But there is no good reason in the world that any fertilizer should ever have twice as much phosphorus as nitrogen...
 
solid7 said:
 
Not necessarily you.  Not everyone who puts videos on the internet gives the whole story, or necessarily has the understanding to go with their good luck. ;)
.
Are you using tap water?  If so, do you know what's in your tap water? (have you ever had a water quality analysis report)
Click to expand...
Yes only tap. Starting TDS is about 200-300, Ph 7-8. When adding nutriens it shows about 700-1000 ppm and 5.8-6 ph
 
 
Andrey said:
Yes only tap. Starting TDS is about 200-300, Ph 7-8. When adding nutriens it shows about 700-1000 ppm and 5.8-6 ph
 
Click to expand...
 
Ok, but I was asking if you know what's in your tap water, not what the TDS count is.  What *specifically* is contributing to  a TDS of 200-300?
 
This is why most people who can do so, opt to use RO water in hydro.  The solids in your water are something.  And they can very much affect your nutrient solution.
 
 
Andrey said:
 
Why twise? Finish solution as mentioned before 18.5-15-34
 
Click to expand...
 
Is 34 not roughly twice as much as 18.5?  EDIT: dyslexia.  I have confused P and K numbers.  My bad.  But regardless, the following becomes purely informational
.
Phosphorus never needs to be higher than Nitrogen, and certainly not that much higher.  Unless somebody can produce some strange chemistry, that shows otherwise.  In soil agriculture, Phosphorus is applied at heavier concentrations, because it's not readily available, and becomes so over an entire season, with interaction of other elements.  In hydro, everything is available right now. And as I live, you will surely NEVER use more P than N in a single grow.  Contrary to popular myth, adding more macro-nutrients won't stimulate specific types of growth.  And P is something to be careful with, as it has a very definite potential to accumulate to toxic levels.
.
If that's all you have available to use, I might try boosting the N with calcium nitrate, leaving K alone, and backing off the calcium and magnesium.  Like, cut your dose until you reach the same TDS with a concentration that looks a little more balanced. (because if you don't have good plant fertilizers available in one-part, it's easy, and maybe best, to shoot for balanced) 
 
 
NOTE:  If given a choice, it would be better to reduce the Potassium, and put your TDS to work in a more efficient way.  The plant isn't going to use that much K, so it's just wasted.  But it won't lock anything up, like it would have, if it were P. (as I mistakenly concluded, earlier)  Plants don't selectively take more Potassium for flowers, just because it's there, as is commonly taught.
 
solid7 said:
 
Ok, but I was asking if you know what's in your tap water, not what the TDS count is.  What *specifically* is contributing to  a TDS of 200-300?
 
This is why most people who can do so, opt to use RO water in hydro.  The solids in your water are something.  And they can very much affect your nutrient solution.
 
 
 
Is 34 not roughly twice as much as 18.5?  EDIT: dyslexia.  I have confused P and K numbers.  My bad.  But regardless, the following becomes purely informational
.
Phosphorus never needs to be higher than Nitrogen, and certainly not that much higher.  Unless somebody can produce some strange chemistry, that shows otherwise.  In soil agriculture, Phosphorus is applied at heavier concentrations, because it's not readily available, and becomes so over an entire season, with interaction of other elements.  In hydro, everything is available right now. And as I live, you will surely NEVER use more P than N in a single grow.  Contrary to popular myth, adding more macro-nutrients won't stimulate specific types of growth.  And P is something to be careful with, as it has a very definite potential to accumulate to toxic levels.
.
If that's all you have available to use, I might try boosting the N with calcium nitrate, leaving K alone, and backing off the calcium and magnesium.  Like, cut your dose until you reach the same TDS with a concentration that looks a little more balanced. (because if you don't have good plant fertilizers available in one-part, it's easy, and maybe best, to shoot for balanced) 
 
 
NOTE:  If given a choice, it would be better to reduce the Potassium, and put your TDS to work in a more efficient way.  The plant isn't going to use that much K, so it's just wasted.  But it won't lock anything up, like it would have, if it were P. (as I mistakenly concluded, earlier)  Plants don't selectively take more Potassium for flowers, just because it's there, as is commonly taught.
Click to expand...
Very sensible idea about potassium and blocks, thank you.
 
solid7 said:
The plant isn't going to use that much K, so it's just wasted.  But it won't lock anything up, like it would have, if it were P. (as I mistakenly concluded, earlier)  Plants don't selectively take more Potassium for flowers, just because it's there, as is commonly taught.
Click to expand...
are you sure? too much potassium is not only wasted but it's toxic.   too much K can disrupt uptake of Ca, N, Mg or even Fe.
 
lek said:
are you sure? too much potassium is not only wasted but it's toxic.   too much K can disrupt uptake of Ca, N, Mg or even Fe.
Click to expand...
 
 I do not recall Potassium being toxic, but my a lack of recollection on my part does not mean that it isn't so.
 
My point was - and we agree on this - plants only need so much of a thing, and past that point, it either becomes useless, or harmful. 
 
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