Just as I've somehow managed to put aphids under control, I've started seeing thrips. How do I know if I should be treating my plants, or is there no minimum to the number of pests? Haven't seen more than a few per leaf, where some leaves have none (though it's likely I just can't see the really tiny ones). Several plants have messed up new growth, but I'm not sure I can attribute it to thrips, though it's possible. All plants have flower buds, some with opened flowers and pods. If I were to treat them, how would I go about it? I've heard neem oil can be used as a pesticide. Does soap need to be used when preparing the solution (because apparently it's really hard to find the natural stuff here)? Thanks, cheers.
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Thrips alert
- Thread starter bongcloud
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i recently suffered from thrips as well:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/68581-thrips-pest-id-small-bugs-black-spots-on-leaves
in my reading and testing, neem doesn't seem effective. i plucked some infested leaves off the plant, sprayed them, let them dry, and put them in a ziplock. days later, the thrips were still alive.
spinosad and pyrethrin insecticides are popular choices. i used the former with good result:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BWY3OQ
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/68581-thrips-pest-id-small-bugs-black-spots-on-leaves
in my reading and testing, neem doesn't seem effective. i plucked some infested leaves off the plant, sprayed them, let them dry, and put them in a ziplock. days later, the thrips were still alive.
spinosad and pyrethrin insecticides are popular choices. i used the former with good result:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BWY3OQ
Do spinosad and pyrethrin have any negative effects on flowering and podding? Also, should I treat medium with these as well? I'll try to find them locally, though it might prove to be a challenge.
Also, is either of the two preferred over the other? By doing a quick google search it appears that pyrethrin kills aphids as well, but I'd like to know how the two compare in general, in terms of types of pests they kill and how safe and undisruptive they are in comparison to one another.
Also, is either of the two preferred over the other? By doing a quick google search it appears that pyrethrin kills aphids as well, but I'd like to know how the two compare in general, in terms of types of pests they kill and how safe and undisruptive they are in comparison to one another.
indoor or outdoor? with most insecticides, you worry about harming outdoor pollinators (bees). some insecticides have instructions for minimizing harm to them, and you should try to follow them.
spinosad is fine for flowering/podding. the instructions for the product i linked to have guidelines for various fruits/vegetables about how many times and how often you can use the product and the minimum number of days before harvest you can apply it. for peppers, i think it said it's fine to harvest as soon as a few days after spraying. also, i think it says it's ok for bees 30 min after drying. probably best to apply it at night after they're done foraging. i didn't intentionally treat the medium, but i'm sure the soil around the plant base got sprayed just from application to the entire plant.
as far as insecticidal efficacy, can't say which one is better for your thrips. resistance is a real thing.
http://www.nurserymag.com/article/put-the-brakes-on-thrips-resistance/
i read this and settled on spinosad:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/spinosad-for-thrips-eradication.217529/
spinosad is fine for flowering/podding. the instructions for the product i linked to have guidelines for various fruits/vegetables about how many times and how often you can use the product and the minimum number of days before harvest you can apply it. for peppers, i think it said it's fine to harvest as soon as a few days after spraying. also, i think it says it's ok for bees 30 min after drying. probably best to apply it at night after they're done foraging. i didn't intentionally treat the medium, but i'm sure the soil around the plant base got sprayed just from application to the entire plant.
as far as insecticidal efficacy, can't say which one is better for your thrips. resistance is a real thing.
http://www.nurserymag.com/article/put-the-brakes-on-thrips-resistance/
i read this and settled on spinosad:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/spinosad-for-thrips-eradication.217529/
Hmm... Neem doesn't work for thrips? Azamax is one of the best products for eradicating thrips, and it's mostly the same stuff as Neem.
I have always found that most of the time when people can't get Neem to work, it's because they don't mix it properly. (it has to be emulsified first)
I mention that, because if you have Neem, you should use it. It keeps them from reproducing.
I have always found that most of the time when people can't get Neem to work, it's because they don't mix it properly. (it has to be emulsified first)
I mention that, because if you have Neem, you should use it. It keeps them from reproducing.
Yeah, that's pretty weak.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that Neem is the end-all. It's just that it has that benefit of completely disrupting the reproductive system of anything that eats your plant.
If you emulsify your Neem properly, you also get the benefit of an insecticidal soap, at the same time. That should be of great help with the thrip problem, as well. Just make sure that you put about about twice as much soap (any kind that's safe to use) as Neem, and mix them together, before adding the mix of soap/Neem to water.
If you try to mix Neem in a sprayer, you are destined for failure.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that Neem is the end-all. It's just that it has that benefit of completely disrupting the reproductive system of anything that eats your plant.
If you emulsify your Neem properly, you also get the benefit of an insecticidal soap, at the same time. That should be of great help with the thrip problem, as well. Just make sure that you put about about twice as much soap (any kind that's safe to use) as Neem, and mix them together, before adding the mix of soap/Neem to water.
If you try to mix Neem in a sprayer, you are destined for failure.
I have a bottle of Dr. Bronner's Peppermint, which technically is the same as Castille soap. I use it all the time in the garden. However, I also use unscented 7th Generation dish soap.Elpicante said:
I feel like I have to be a bit more careful with the Dr. Bronners... I did have a mild issue with phytotoxicity once. (my fault)
Im having thrips problem too. Had an aphid invasion first and that was thoroughly dealt with neem oil.
It seems I can't get rid of thrips with neem, am I missing something? I did emulsify it beautifully so that ain't the problem..
It seems I can't get rid of thrips with neem, am I missing something? I did emulsify it beautifully so that ain't the problem..
jalapeno15 said:
OK, so this is where my experience diverges with that of others. It took me a couple of repeat applications to completely deal with my thrips... But it DID do the deed. And I never had the problem again.
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Are they still actively damaging your plants? Are they still multiplying? Are you seeing all stages of thrip lifecycle in your plants?
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As noted, the Neem will disrupt reproduction, but it might be necessary to re-apply every week for a few weeks. As with so many little nasties, they have a complex lifecycle, in which control methods aren't equally effective for every stage...
Monterey also sells a fruit tree spray in concentrate
http://www.montereylawngarden.com/documents/public/products/Fruit%20Tree%20Spray%20Plus_LBL_2012-05(01)_Specimen.pdf
0.25% pirethryn
70% Neem oil
http://www.montereylawngarden.com/documents/public/products/Fruit%20Tree%20Spray%20Plus_LBL_2012-05(01)_Specimen.pdf
0.25% pirethryn
70% Neem oil
lek said:
As you've been told before, if you throw out a statement like that, you need to clarify it, with details. Most of these are beginning growers. They are not going to just intuitively know what a "good surfactant" is. Also, it would be helpful to know what your idea of one is, lest other growers may be able to provide concurrence or rebuttal.
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Also, specifically *why* will dish soap weaken your plant? Which dish soap? All dish soap?
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There is a beautiful art to effective communication.
Why?solid7 said:
Dish soap is excellent in removing grease, oil, wax, ..., right?solid7 said:
but natural defenses against pest/disease is oil/wax on plant leaves. why remove it?
what is a good surfactant? it depends on what do want to spray on plant leaves.
i use beauveria bassiana + metarhizium anisopliae to get rid of thrips. of course i will use biosurfactant.
lek said:
Quite simply, because nobody knows what you're talking about. And if they don't what you're talking about, your points will be missed. It behooves us to keep information basic, and where that's not feasible, give a good explanation.
Again, without an explanation of how this product is available, it sounds like you're writing science fiction. Honestly, I have no doubt that you probably know what you're talking about. But it's not helpful if nobody else does.lek said:
Whenever I read your posts, I typically have to go looking for the things that you mention. And even then, I often don't find them in our commercial market.
Where do you get these things? If you make them, how?
Details... Beautiful communication.
Of the 4 or so products i found available in the US that contain beauveria bassiana, the least expensive was around $86 per quart. Others were around $100 per quart. I found it difficult to even find the other one from a vendor in the USA but it appears to be even more expensive.
Thank you all for your input. As I've assumed, finding spinosad and pyrethrin locally is pretty hard. Ordering from a national company seems pretty impossible so far, as any that might carry these insecticides do wholesale only. Ordering from abroad would be quite pricey, as it's not well regulated here. Actually came across Beauveria bassiana in my readings, and after some digging around found a retailer willing to ship it to me. However, the product (Naturalis Biogard) is 40 euros (~$46) for a liter (~1 quart), and that's too much for me. I'll give it another day or two, but it seems like I'll be going the neem route.
Also, found my old toy microscope today, so figured I'd try to take a picture of the little annoyances. Conditions were sub-par, so please excuse the poor quality. Most images are 200X magnification, as everything over seemed pretty useless. Just in case, could somebody confirm these are indeed thrips? Largest one was almost 2mm (1/13") long.
https://imgur.com/a/b4aCXYp (descriptions under images)
Also, found my old toy microscope today, so figured I'd try to take a picture of the little annoyances. Conditions were sub-par, so please excuse the poor quality. Most images are 200X magnification, as everything over seemed pretty useless. Just in case, could somebody confirm these are indeed thrips? Largest one was almost 2mm (1/13") long.
https://imgur.com/a/b4aCXYp (descriptions under images)
Sure looks like thrips.
If you can't get anything else, keep dosing the neem, but before you do that, do a straight insecticidal soap. Make sure that you get a "safe" dish soap. That's gonna be hard for me to give advice on, because I don't know what's available in your country. But when you use a soap on a plant, it's sprayed on, left for 15 minutes, and then completely rinsed off. When the plant is dry to the touch, apply Neem.
It's gonna be a lot of work, but I think you'll get it under control.
Neem is like birth control for insects, so even if you don't kill them, you'll gradually drawn down the population through attrition.
If you can't get anything else, keep dosing the neem, but before you do that, do a straight insecticidal soap. Make sure that you get a "safe" dish soap. That's gonna be hard for me to give advice on, because I don't know what's available in your country. But when you use a soap on a plant, it's sprayed on, left for 15 minutes, and then completely rinsed off. When the plant is dry to the touch, apply Neem.
It's gonna be a lot of work, but I think you'll get it under control.
Neem is like birth control for insects, so even if you don't kill them, you'll gradually drawn down the population through attrition.
I need a bit more clarification on that. Do you mean I should use straight insecticidal soap only once before applying neem, or every time before I apply neem (every week or so). Also, from wiki page on thrips: "Insecticidal soap spray is effective against thrips. It is commercially available or can be made of certain types of household soap."solid7 said:
If you mean the commercially available ones, I've already looked for those and couldn't find anything of the sort. If you mean the type that can be made, how do I do that? Also, when you say ""safe" dish soap" do you mean those eco dish soaps? I've looked through a few hundred dish soaps in a local supermarket, and only managed to find several that maybe fall into that category:
https://www.frosch.de/Products/Dishwashing/Dishwashing-Detergent/Aloe-Vera-Dishwashing-Lotion/
https://www.frosch.de/Products/Baby/Dishwash-Cleaner/
https://www.frosch.de/Products/Dishwashing/Dishwashing-Detergent/Dishwashing-Liquid/
https://www.frosch.de/Products/Dishwashing/Dishwashing-Detergent/Zitronen-Spuelmittel/
They're all the same brand. Would some of these work?
Also, castile soap was mentioned before. I have some castile, goat milk and eco ones, but they're all hard soaps. Can these somehow be used?
solid7 said:
When I use soap, should I try to avoid runoff to medium (mulched with about 2 inches of pine bark)? What about when using neem? Is rinsing by spraying with water alright? Also, should I treat the medium? When you say "apply neem", do you mean spray with neem+soap+water solution?
Sorry for being lengthy. I really appreciate the help.