health Timothy the Ghost Pepper Update ( + Advice Needed)

[dolphcode]

Hello The Hot Pepper! Sebastian here, back with an update on Timothy. I've been kind of waiting until I had some questions to post but I have some questions now so I figured I'd bundle my update of Timothy the Ghost Pepper with some of my questions.

So here's Timothy, about 3 weeks after I first got him I think

I believe he's been getting around 6 hours of sun everyday, although I'm planning on moving him to the front of the house so he can get at least an hour or two more, that way I'm not cutting it so close to the 6 hour minimum. Otherwise though he looks healthy as anything, shockingly I haven't needed to water him all too often. His soil doesn't dry out very frequently and I've been going off of much research and watering him when he starts to droop a little (or when the soil is super dry, which has happened a couple of times in the past few weeks due to high temperatures, but it's also been humid so I figure that's why his soil doesn't dry out much). I've also been giving him some crushed rabbit droppings every so often, because we do have a rabbit, she's my little poop factory

Now onto, the questions, first off I noticed he was growing quite a lot of leaves close to the base of his stem:

Some sources say this is a pretty good time to prune the leaves at the bottom level? What do you guys think, should I be pruning him closer to the bottom? If so, how do I go about doing that? Which leaves should I be pruning? Established leaves or the new leaves that are crowding the bottom of the stem? How many leaves should I be pruning? Again, I'm pretty new to this and I've gone through a bunch of sources that say a bunch of different things, so I wanted to ask just to be completely sure before I do anything.

For my second question, I was taking a look at him today when I saw something of particular interest close to the top of his foliage:

It would appear he's budding!

I don't really know what to do at this point about this. My guess is he'll be flowering a week from now or so? Some sources say I should be snipping off the first flowers to promote more leaf growth and a better yield. Some sources say it's best to just leave it alone. Frankly, right now I just want to see if I can get any so I'm a little hesitant to be cutting flowers. What should I do with these first buds? I'm leaning towards leaving them be as I'm excited to see those first flowers.

I also noticed that the tips of some of his leaves are a little brown and crispy. I'm not sure what that's about, but I'm not terribly concerned as it hasn't been spreading throughout the leaves or anything, and I only see it on 3 of his big leaves. Is that something I should be worried about or is that normal for decently healthy ghost peppers/peppers in general?

That's been my first pepper growing journey so far, this is also the first plant I've tried growing and I'm happy to be having some success I think. If there's anything egregiously wrong with my pepper that I missed please do let me know of course. Thank you all in advance, and happy growing!

 

[HerbCasa]

Hi Sebastian
Hi Timothy

For pruning I usually prune anything touching or close to soil. Then discolored and damaged leaves. You can prune big leaves if they are crowding and blocking light from bud sites or preventing airflow.

 

[NJChilehead]

@dolphcode so far so good! Timothy looks pretty healthy to me. Someone gave me some great advice many years ago-they told me that peppers can still thrive from benign neglect. I've found that to be true, so don't worry too much, barring any serious mistakes on your part, I'd say that Timothy is going to be just fine.

A few things that I'd suggest to get the best experience for your ghost pepper:

First, I'm wondering if you should reconsider that move into more sunlight. Not sure what part of the eastern US you are in, but much of it is in a state of extreme heat. Peppers can suffer from heat stress, and so far I'm not seeing any sunscald or other indications that your ghost pepper is getting too much sun, and I'm also not seeing any internodal stretching, which would indicate that it's not getting enough sun. It's got nice, deep green leaves with no signs of stress. Since the sun recipe is working right now, I'd let it be.

I want to hear more about your watering scheme. Watering deeply but infrequently is the best approach, and it looks like that's what you are doing.

Definitely don't prune those flower buds. The plant knows what to do and it knows what it can handle. Remember that there's a driver in the DNA to produce fruit and perpetuate its genes-it's going to do just that. Don't be alarmed if it drops some flowers, that's what peppers do sometimes, especially in the heat.

I had to look up rabbit poop as fertilizer. I never knew that you could use any animal manure in an uncomposted state, but sure enough, you can!

Here's my suggestion: get a balanced NPK fertilizer (it's best if you can get one with micronutrients) and when it's the next time to water, administer a 1/2 strength application of it, then don't do any fertilization for two weeks. Continue watering deeply but infrequently, monitor Timothy for two weeks and then repost pictures. It's funny, peppers will 'ask' for what they need. For example, a little yellowing on the leaves can mean nitrogen deficiency, some crinkling on the new leaf edges can mean some calcium deficiency, etc. Let's see what happens if you administer a weak dose of balanced fertilizer, and then eliminate fertilization for the next two weeks, repost pics and then we can go from there. My prediction is that your ghost pepper is going to look even better in two weeks, and if it doesn't we'll know what to do next.

 

[CaneDog]

Good advice above. Definitely don't prune those "leaves" though as they aren't just leaves, they're the branches of the plant developing and those will fill out your plant. Trimming big lower leaves when they're not branches is a some-do-some-don't thing and it can depend on the circumstances too. Pruning your branches would be another matter entirely.

 

[dolphcode]

Good evening! Apologies for the late response.

@dolphcode so far so good! Timothy looks pretty healthy to me. Someone gave me some great advice many years ago-they told me that peppers can still thrive from benign neglect. I've found that to be true, so don't worry too much, barring any serious mistakes on your part, I'd say that Timothy is going to be just fine.

That's good to hear! I was worried caring for a pepper plant might not be the best first plant experience as I wasn't sure how difficult it would be to raise a pepper plant, let alone a plant. I'll say that getting Timothy as a sapling from the nursery rather than planting my own seeds was definitely the best way to get started, I don't know where I would even begin with hardening off a plant and raising a pepper plant from seeds, deciding on the right soil mix and getting ready to transplant an established plant was already a task enough.

A few things that I'd suggest to get the best experience for your ghost pepper:

First, I'm wondering if you should reconsider that move into more sunlight. Not sure what part of the eastern US you are in, but much of it is in a state of extreme heat. Peppers can suffer from heat stress, and so far I'm not seeing any sunscald or other indications that your ghost pepper is getting too much sun, and I'm also not seeing any internodal stretching, which would indicate that it's not getting enough sun. It's got nice, deep green leaves with no signs of stress. Since the sun recipe is working right now, I'd let it be.

What exactly do you mean by internodal stretching? I looked it up and my understanding is that it's when there's a lot of spacing between branches (along the main stem), which I guess makes sense because that's a sign of the pepper trying to get more sunlight by growing taller. Am I correct in my assumption? If that's the case, are there any more immediate signs that a plant isn't getting enough sun than internodal stretching?

Thanks for letting me know btw! I knew what to watch out for if a plant is getting too much sun but I wasn't sure how to tell if it wasn't getting enough.

I want to hear more about your watering scheme. Watering deeply but infrequently is the best approach, and it looks like that's what you are doing.

I let Timothy and the soil tell me when he needs watering. If the leaves start to droop a little or I stick my finger in the soil and it's completely dry and my finger doesn't pick anything up I know it's time to water (I haven't had the soil completely dry out yet though so the former is my typical indicator). I've been a bit worried because lately because I've really only had to water him once a week in spite of the heat (we've been in the mid-upper 90s for a good week now). I've only seen his leaves droop a few times, they've only gotten really droopy once and he perked up within a few minutes of watering, and the soil stays pretty damp beneath the top layer for a good while (I check pretty often because I'm so worried), and I know I want to avoid drowning out the roots or overpacking the soil by overwatering.

As for how I water, I water until the pot starts draining (one of the advantages of growing him in a pot) so that water gets all the way to the bottom. In other words, I believe, deeply but infrequently.

Definitely don't prune those flower buds. The plant knows what to do and it knows what it can handle. Remember that there's a driver in the DNA to produce fruit and perpetuate its genes-it's going to do just that. Don't be alarmed if it drops some flowers, that's what peppers do sometimes, especially in the heat.

Roger that!

I had to look up rabbit poop as fertilizer. I never knew that you could use any animal manure in an uncomposted state, but sure enough, you can!

Yeah this was something we read about a couple of weeks into having a pet rabbit lol. I believe the reasoning is because rabbit poop is considered a "cold manure," so it doesn't burn the plant's roots if I apply it to the soil immediately. I believe that's partly because all she eats is greens (in theory... in practice the little rascal is chewing up the whole house, but her poop hasn't looked problematic in a good while so at worst it's an inconvenience to our furniture and our walls ). What we are planning on composting is her litter because it's a mix of (I believe) untreated pine litter, hay, and of course, rabbit urine and poo.

Speaking of our rabbit, here's a picture of her. Her name is Willow. An important member of the cast of characters in Timothy's little growing adventure (and of course, an important member of the family )

Here's my suggestion: get a balanced NPK fertilizer (it's best if you can get one with micronutrients) and when it's the next time to water, administer a 1/2 strength application of it, then don't do any fertilization for two weeks. Continue watering deeply but infrequently, monitor Timothy for two weeks and then repost pictures. It's funny, peppers will 'ask' for what they need. For example, a little yellowing on the leaves can mean nitrogen deficiency, some crinkling on the new leaf edges can mean some calcium deficiency, etc. Let's see what happens if you administer a weak dose of balanced fertilizer, and then eliminate fertilization for the next two weeks, repost pics and then we can go from there. My prediction is that your ghost pepper is going to look even better in two weeks, and if it doesn't we'll know what to do next.

Awesome! I'll see if I can pick some up either tomorrow or in the next few days and try exactly this. Out of curiosity is it possible to over fertilize a plant? And what's a good rule of thumb for fertilizing pepper plants? How often? Any particular go-to brands?

Thank you so much for all the feedback! This has been very helpful and I'll definitely be jotting this advice down in my notes. Raising Timothy has been a tremendous learning experience. I'm happy to see that he is looking happy and healthy. Will definitely update y'all on how he's doing in a couple of weeks. I'm excited to start seeing some flowers (and maybe even peppers) pretty soon.

 

[dolphcode]

Good advice above. Definitely don't prune those "leaves" though as they aren't just leaves, they're the branches of the plant developing and those will fill out your plant. Trimming big lower leaves when they're not branches is a some-do-some-don't thing and it can depend on the circumstances too. Pruning your branches would be another matter entirely.

I understand, in that case I think I'm going to try just leaving him be and see how he does growing on his own. I don't know what the indicators are for if/when he needs to be pruned so I'll look into it and keep an eye out. Thanks a bunch!

 

[dolphcode]

Hi Sebastian
Hi Timothy

For pruning I usually prune anything touching or close to soil. Then discolored and damaged leaves. You can prune big leaves if they are crowding and blocking light from bud sites or preventing airflow.

That makes sense. He has a couple of leaves that are practically in the dirt from when I first transplanted him, I might try pruning those off to promote growth further up the main stem. How would I know if Timothy isn't getting good airflow in his foliage? Also I'll keep an eye on those buds because they seem like they might be blocked by some of the upper leaves but maybe they won't?

When I do go to prune leaves, should I be cutting closer to the main stem or away from it? I assume closer as I want to get the whole bad branch off but I could be wrong.

Thank you for the advice!

 

[HerbCasa]

If you want, you can just cut the brown tips on leaves , with sterilized scissors, to stop the damaged leaves from growing.
After leaves are not needed the stems pop of the stalk, so you won't need to prune near the trunk.

I like to run my fingers lightly through the foliage to see if it is getting good air circulation.
Also, check if any leaves are stuck together by bugs.
Underneath leaves is usually where bugs attack peppers.
Don't clip leaves if they have insects. Some insecticidal spray might be needed.

You might as well be prepared for bugs. Have you spotted any insects?

 

[dolphcode]

Good afternoon @HerbCasa !

If you want, you can just cut the brown tips on leaves , with sterilized scissors, to stop the damaged leaves from growing.
After leaves are not needed the stems pop of the stalk, so you won't need to prune near the trunk.

I'll take a look at the damaged leaves then and give that a shot. I'm just a little hesitant because the browning isn't all that bad, it's just the very tips of 3 of Timothy's leaves (that have mostly crumbled off anyway, so I don't want to snip at the healthy parts of these otherwise perfectly healthy, green leaves).

I like to run my fingers lightly through the foliage to see if it is getting good air circulation.

Ah thanks for that advice, it's a little breezy today so today's a good day to check that.

Also, check if any leaves are stuck together by bugs.
Underneath leaves is usually where bugs attack peppers.
Don't clip leaves if they have insects. Some insecticidal spray might be needed.

You might as well be prepared for bugs. Have you spotted any insects?

So far I haven't seen any bugs on Timothy but I'll look underneath his leaves now and see if there are any. Any particular perpetrators I should be on the look out for?

As for dealing with bugs, if there are any on Timothy, do you know of any eco-friendly options for doing so or any sustainable insecticides that are good to have on hand?

Thanks!

 

[HerbCasa]

There are a few different ones.
Different pest including snails and rodents

But for bugs...
I know there's a few organic insecticidal soap spray
Or you can try little dish soap and water and spray plant top and bottom.
Respraying if you still see them.

 

[NJChilehead]

What exactly do you mean by internodal stretching? I looked it up and my understanding is that it's when there's a lot of spacing between branches (along the main stem), which I guess makes sense because that's a sign of the pepper trying to get more sunlight by growing taller. Am I correct in my assumption? If that's the case, are there any more immediate signs that a plant isn't getting enough sun than internodal stretching?

@dolphcode yes, that's correct.

I let Timothy and the soil tell me when he needs watering. If the leaves start to droop a little or I stick my finger in the soil and it's completely dry and my finger doesn't pick anything up I know it's time to water (I haven't had the soil completely dry out yet though so the former is my typical indicator). I've been a bit worried because lately because I've really only had to water him once a week in spite of the heat (we've been in the mid-upper 90s for a good week now). I've only seen his leaves droop a few times, they've only gotten really droopy once and he perked up within a few minutes of watering, and the soil stays pretty damp beneath the top layer for a good while (I check pretty often because I'm so worried), and I know I want to avoid drowning out the roots or overpacking the soil by overwatering.

As for how I water, I water until the pot starts draining (one of the advantages of growing him in a pot) so that water gets all the way to the bottom. In other words, I believe, deeply but infrequently.

Yup that sounds perfect

Yeah this was something we read about a couple of weeks into having a pet rabbit lol. I believe the reasoning is because rabbit poop is considered a "cold manure," so it doesn't burn the plant's roots if I apply it to the soil immediately. I believe that's partly because all she eats is greens (in theory... in practice the little rascal is chewing up the whole house, but her poop hasn't looked problematic in a good while so at worst it's an inconvenience to our furniture and our walls ). What we are planning on composting is her litter because it's a mix of (I believe) untreated pine litter, hay, and of course, rabbit urine and poo.

Speaking of our rabbit, here's a picture of her. Her name is Willow. An important member of the cast of characters in Timothy's little growing adventure (and of course, an important member of the family )

I had no idea about the rabbit poop-I definitely learned something new here. Also she's a cutie.

Awesome! I'll see if I can pick some up either tomorrow or in the next few days and try exactly this. Out of curiosity is it possible to over fertilize a plant? And what's a good rule of thumb for fertilizing pepper plants? How often? Any particular go-to brands?

This is going to be a little bit of a deep dive, so forgive me if I'm giving too much info. There are different ways to classify fertilizers. One way is to classify them as organic vs. inorganic ("chemical fertilizer"), another way is fast acting vs. slow release, and there are others. My general rule of thumb is as follows:

1) Establish a good soil biota first by introducing compost, worm castings, mycorhizzae and good organic nutrients from the beginning. A good makeup of soil microorganisms means that the nutrients that you are supplying to your plants will be made available to them through the activity of bacteria and fungi in the soil. I look at the soil biota like I look at gut health: if I know that the gut is healthy, it can take heavier feeding, but if the gut isn't healthy, we want to do what we can to improve that first.

2) Once the soil biota is established, my personal (anecdotal) way of fertilizing is to supplement with small applications of a slow-release, low NPK organic fertilizer with essential micronutrients like calcium, magnesium, etc about once every 2-3 weeks. Good examples of these are Espoma garden-tone and Espoma tomato-tone (I like tomato-tone a little more). This keeps the soil biota healthy and happy and supplies the essential nutrients to your plant. Note that I like to add tomato or garden tone in with the soil when I first mix it before transplanting.

3) Before getting into how I fertilize with chemical fertilizers, I want to put out a few disclaimers: first, not everyone likes to use chemical fertilizers. The reasons vary but include the fact that chemical fertilizers can negatively affect soil biota, and also that chemical fertilizers are not considered organic and are not as healthy. Another reason is that many chemical fertilizers don't contain micronutrients. I respect all of these paradigms and will certainly respect it if you decide not to go the chemical route as well. That being said, once the soil biota is established, there have been one or two applications of organic, slow-release fertilizer, and the plant has shown some growth (meaning the root system is established), I like to give a weak (half strength) application of a balanced fast-acting NPK chemical fertilizer such as Jack's 20-20-20 about every few weeks, as long as it doesn't overlap with the application of the slow-release organic fert. Note that this fertilizer is fast-acting because it is water soluble. I believe that it is helpful to get those essential NPK nutrients in larger amounts on occasion during the growing season, and I believe that since the soil biota is firmly established, that it can handle a few applications of chemical fertilizer over the course of the season without much impact to the health of the soil biota.

If you don't want to go the chemical route, I would still go with a water-soluble, fast acting organic fertilizer. I think a good example of that is a fish emulsion/seaweed blend, even though the NPK is not as high as Jack's. Neptune's Harvest makes a good one, and they make a very good 2-4-2 fertilizer called tomato and veg. It's more expensive, but it's hydrolyzed fish and it contains a lot of micronutrients. The kelp/seaweed in these fertilizers contains a lot of nutrients too, and the extra potassium really helps with times of stress (i.e this heatwave we're having).

Regarding your question about whether you can overfertilize, and the answer is yes. That's another nice thing about using the fast-acting, water soluble fertilizer in a pot: if you see signs that you overdid it, you can flush the soil. Of course we try to avoid that because you are flushing out other nutrients and microorganisms. If you follow a moderate feeding schedule and use half-strength applications, you should be absolutely fine.

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions!

 

[HellfireFarm]

Good advice there on pruning from @HerbCasa I totally agree

 

[dolphcode]

There are a few different ones.
Different pest including snails and rodents

But for bugs...
I know there's a few organic insecticidal soap spray
Or you can try little dish soap and water and spray plant top and bottom.
Respraying if you still see them.

I'll take note of that for if I ever do encounter bugs on my peppers in the future. Thank you so much!

To update you on that, I've been monitoring Timothy for the past few days and I haven't seen any bugs under his leaves so it looks like we're A-okay so far. I'll keep watching in case any bugs or critters decide to munch on Timothy. Thank you!

 

[dolphcode]

This is going to be a little bit of a deep dive, so forgive me if I'm giving too much info. There are different ways to classify fertilizers. One way is to classify them as organic vs. inorganic ("chemical fertilizer"), another way is fast acting vs. slow release, and there are others. My general rule of thumb is as follows:

1) Establish a good soil biota first by introducing compost, worm castings, mycorhizzae and good organic nutrients from the beginning. A good makeup of soil microorganisms means that the nutrients that you are supplying to your plants will be made available to them through the activity of bacteria and fungi in the soil. I look at the soil biota like I look at gut health: if I know that the gut is healthy, it can take heavier feeding, but if the gut isn't healthy, we want to do what we can to improve that first.

2) Once the soil biota is established, my personal (anecdotal) way of fertilizing is to supplement with small applications of a slow-release, low NPK organic fertilizer with essential micronutrients like calcium, magnesium, etc about once every 2-3 weeks. Good examples of these are Espoma garden-tone and Espoma tomato-tone (I like tomato-tone a little more). This keeps the soil biota healthy and happy and supplies the essential nutrients to your plant. Note that I like to add tomato or garden tone in with the soil when I first mix it before transplanting.

3) Before getting into how I fertilize with chemical fertilizers, I want to put out a few disclaimers: first, not everyone likes to use chemical fertilizers. The reasons vary but include the fact that chemical fertilizers can negatively affect soil biota, and also that chemical fertilizers are not considered organic and are not as healthy. Another reason is that many chemical fertilizers don't contain micronutrients. I respect all of these paradigms and will certainly respect it if you decide not to go the chemical route as well. That being said, once the soil biota is established, there have been one or two applications of organic, slow-release fertilizer, and the plant has shown some growth (meaning the root system is established), I like to give a weak (half strength) application of a balanced fast-acting NPK chemical fertilizer such as Jack's 20-20-20 about every few weeks, as long as it doesn't overlap with the application of the slow-release organic fert. Note that this fertilizer is fast-acting because it is water soluble. I believe that it is helpful to get those essential NPK nutrients in larger amounts on occasion during the growing season, and I believe that since the soil biota is firmly established, that it can handle a few applications of chemical fertilizer over the course of the season without much impact to the health of the soil biota.

If you don't want to go the chemical route, I would still go with a water-soluble, fast acting organic fertilizer. I think a good example of that is a fish emulsion/seaweed blend, even though the NPK is not as high as Jack's. Neptune's Harvest makes a good one, and they make a very good 2-4-2 fertilizer called tomato and veg. It's more expensive, but it's hydrolyzed fish and it contains a lot of micronutrients. The kelp/seaweed in these fertilizers contains a lot of nutrients too, and the extra potassium really helps with times of stress (i.e this heatwave we're having).

Regarding your question about whether you can overfertilize, and the answer is yes. That's another nice thing about using the fast-acting, water soluble fertilizer in a pot: if you see signs that you overdid it, you can flush the soil. Of course we try to avoid that because you are flushing out other nutrients and microorganisms. If you follow a moderate feeding schedule and use half-strength applications, you should be absolutely fine.

Good luck and let us know if you have any other questions!

Thank you so much! This is incredibly informative and I've made sure to take notes. I think for the time being I'd like to stick with organic fertilizers, so I'm going to pick up some Tomato and Veg for the next time I water Timothy and I'll follow your advice and give him a half application to see how he does with it. I'm not sure how great my soil biota is so I'll just have to monitor him once I've applied the fertilizer, but I'll keep all the earlier notes in mind for the next time I grow/transplant new peppers so that I know I'm establishing a strong soil biota in the future.

I'll look into those slow-release organic fertilizer options as well to have on hand both for Timothy and any other peppers I'll wind up growing in the future.

That said, my worry with using Tomato and Veg is that maybe Timothy won't get enough Nitrogen and Phosphorous in a 2-4-2 ratio (I think those are what the smaller numbers are referring to), do you know of any fast release organic fertilizers that are more balanced for me to use alongside Tomato and Veg (I figure I can use the 2-4-2 when I know a heat wave is coming up, and go with a balanced fertilizer otherwise)?

Again, thank you so much for all the help! I'll be keeping everyone posted on Timothy's progress.

 

[NJChilehead]

That said, my worry with using Tomato and Veg is that maybe Timothy won't get enough Nitrogen and Phosphorous in a 2-4-2 ratio (I think those are what the smaller numbers are referring to), do you know of any fast release organic fertilizers that are more balanced for me to use alongside Tomato and Veg (I figure I can use the 2-4-2 when I know a heat wave is coming up, and go with a balanced fertilizer otherwise)?

The smaller numbers are nitrogen and potassium. You could try Miracle Grow Performance Organics. There are different blends (general purpose, bloom, edibles, etc.). I'd go with something as balanced as possible. I'm not sure that the plant will be underfed if you go with Tomato Tone/Garden Tone and a fish/kelp liquid like Tomato and Veg. That's a pretty healthy diet. For one anecdotal example, check out my rocotos in post #541 on this page: https://thehotpepper.com/threads/sh...g-from-the-rocoto-giveaway.67008/post-1789001

These three were only given good compost and some garden tone at planting, and a half-strength fish/kelp blend about every two weeks. They were planted in pots sometime about the 3rd week of May (around the 21st I think).