Trippas Organic story of 2012/2013....things could be worse ...

Dez · Nov 3, 2012

Very nice photo's and pods Trippa.

Here's something that may be another weapon in organic control (if we can get it in Australia):

http://www.arbico-or...rden-greenhouse

It's active ingredient is "Sucrose Octanoate Esters", which breaks down in to sugar and water.

It supposedly has no documented resistance.

Apparently beekeepers use something very similar called Sucrocide to control mites in hives etc.

Trippa · Nov 3, 2012

gasificada said:
Don't be like that, mate.... we share things here!

Not only that, chems only do so good for so long against broad mite. The buggers grow resistance easily and at an insanely fast rate.

No real deep dark secrets gas ... it will depend on our living situation in the coming months (as we still haven't shifted but are still looking at moving into a house if the right one comes up before we resign our lease here) but I am looking at getting some more Wormtec worm extract and using that to increase the good bugs but (if we are in a house) also to use that in an Aerobic tea mix. Lacewings are also something I am looking at getting along with the Californicus (if my budget stretches a bit. Plus I need another bottle of Backyard Boost to increase the calcium and silica content of the plants when they need it. Along with my current Fulvic and Kelp and seaweed foliar and soil feeds with fish emulsion added as well. I usually rotate the application of things so that the plant is getting the good things from each product every 4-6 weeks. That way I figure things should be a little more balanced then using one product all of the time. Dunno if that theory holds much water but I like to think it works

Dez said:
Very nice photo's and pods Trippa.

Here's something that may be another weapon in organic control (if we can get it in Australia):

http://www.arbico-or...rden-greenhouse

It's active ingredient is "Sucrose Octanoate Esters", which breaks down in to sugar and water.

It supposedly has no documented resistance.

Apparently beekeepers use something very similar called Sucrocide to control mites in hives etc.

Thanks Dez!!

That product looks promising alright... I wonder how many years we will have to wait before it has passed all the hurdles to get on shore here. I would use it for sure.

queequeg152 · Nov 3, 2012

Trippa said:
Thanks for stopping by queequeg152 ... thanks for your suggestion but I really only use organic additives and pest control on my garden no matter what. Plus something that is so toxic in water to most living things and and when plants and pods have such a huge percentage of water in them ... no thanks.

its actually insoluble in water, this is why it has to be emulsified in order to be usefull.

Effects on Aquatic Organisms

Abamectin is highly toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates (7). Its 96-hour LC50 in rainbow trout is 3.2 ppb, 9.6 ppb in bluegill sunfish, 15 ppb in sheepshead minnow, 24 ppb in channel catfish, and 42 ppb in carp. Its 48-hour LC50 in Daphnia magna, a small freshwater crustacean, is 0.34 ppb. The 96-hour LC50 for abamectin in pink shrimp (Panaeus duorarum) is 1.6 ppb, 0.022 ppb in mysid shrimp, 430 ppb in eastern oysters, and 153 ppb in blue crab (6).
While the above LC50 values are quite low, indicating a high level of toxicity to aquatic organisms, actual concentrations of abamectin in surface waters (fresh water) adjacent to treated areas are expected to be low. Application rates of 0.025 pounds of abamectin per acre (the highest recommended rate) should result in concentrations no higher than 26 parts per trillion in adjacent surface waters one day after the application. Rapid photodegradation and adsorption to sediments should produce even lower concentrations within days. The degradation products of abamectin are less toxic to aquatic organisms than abamectin itself (6).
Abamectin did not bioaccumulate in bluegill sunfish exposed to 0.099 ppb for 28 days in a flow-through tank. On day 28, the concentration of residues in the fish was 6.8 ppb, but this rapidly decreased to 0.32 ppb by day 42. The BCF value calculated from this study is 52, indicating that abamectin does not accumulate or persist in fish (6).

gasificada said:
Not only that, chems only do so good for so long against broad mite. The buggers grow resistance easily and at an insanely fast rate.

its actually a bio pestectacide just like azamax and other organic products. and as far as i know there is no significant resistance to abamectin i can find. also... you must keep in mind that in order to develop resistant pests at anything close to "insanely fast" you would need a massive population that you were spraying. resistances to stuff develops at huge farms because the selective pressure is spread out to thousands of acres worth of pests. even then it takes years. obiviously if you live close to a farm you might be subject to pesticide resistant bugs, but most dont.

Trippa · Nov 3, 2012

Thanks but no thanks. Its not an allowable organic input for a reason and the high toxicity against mammals and invertebrates alike makes it a no go.
By all means you go for it but I personally don't go for this sort of quick fix , long unknown hangover type solution for a reason. That reason is called balance and these sorts of products don't have it

Not trying to stir but you can argue until you are blue in the face and I will politely stand by my gardening ethics which I have control over. Each to there own all I am saying is not on my patch

gasificada · Nov 3, 2012

queequeg152 said:
its actually a bio pestectacide just like azamax and other organic products. and as far as i know there is no significant resistance to abamectin i can find. also... you must keep in mind that in order to develop resistant pests at anything close to "insanely fast" you would need a massive population that you were spraying. resistances to stuff develops at huge farms because the selective pressure is spread out to thousands of acres worth of pests. even then it takes years. obiviously if you live close to a farm you might be subject to pesticide resistant bugs, but most dont.

Tell that to my mites that are now resistant to both dimethoate and sulfur.

Dimethoate worked like a charm the first time I used it but did absolutely nothing the second time. Sulfur worked the first two or thre times I used it but did nothing the last time I used it.

I'm not trying to stir either. Just speaking my own personal experience. Perhaps the naturally occuring broad mite here have populated from an already pesticide resistant breed, I don't know, but what I do know is that the broad mite here do grow resistance very easily--and yes, even in small-scale conditions.

Trippa · Nov 3, 2012

Some more shots from yesterday of some other pods (plus a couple of the same pods to fill in the gaps in my variety this season

)

Prik Luang

Trinidad Seasoning

Pimenta De Neyde (Looks like a very strange plant at the moment has some flowers on the tips and 2 pods but the heavy winds have stripped all the foliage off the rest of the plant

Has anyone else found this plant to grow extremely lanky and also to be very picky about setting pods compared with other types?? It doesn't seem to like the hotter days and found last season it only set pods at the end of the season when things cooled down.

Wild Brazil (love this little plant and its "skittle" pods)

Yellow%25207%2520pot-pods%25203%2520%2520in%2520a%2520row.JPG

Three little Pods .... pitch on my doorstep ... stinging sweet pods ... with capsaicin pure and true ... saying ... this is my flesh just for you you you..... (yellow 7 pot-pods inspired by Bob

)

Yellow%25207%2520pot-pod%2520scissors.JPG

And one more of one of my favourite chillis ... freshly cut. The Genetics on this Yellow 7 are a keeper for me (I overwintered it) no matter how ugly the plant gets with pests and environmental issues it simply keeps flowering and producing good sized ( often golf ball sized ) pods

gasificada · Nov 4, 2012

My PDN grows tall, but I wouldn't call it lanky. It fills out fairly well. And believe it or not, I've found the opposite.... mine seems to prefer a hotter environment! It's only started producing now that it's getting hotter. Last season it produced fine in the midst of summer too.

If I ever decide to grow Yellow 7 again, I know who I'm hitting up for seeds.

Portuge · Nov 4, 2012

Lookin good there Trippa, awesome pod shots btw. Can you get acouple more shots of your wild brazil for me... 2013 gonna be my first year growin em. so far im likin the way yours looks...

gnslngr · Nov 4, 2012

Ditto your Yellow 7 comments- my original pot bound Yellow 7-what a trooper. These are sweet for the typical trick lag of the 7 pots then HERE SHE COMES HOT!

I checked that link for s-cide, and wouldn't ya know it..."temporarily unavail."-I like the sound of this one bigtime.

queequeg152 · Nov 4, 2012

gasificada said:
Tell that to my mites that are now resistant to both dime

gasificada said:

Tell that to my mites that are now resistant to both dimethoate and sulfur. Dimethoate worked like a charm the first time I used it but did absolutely nothing the second time. Sulfur worked the first two or thre times I used it but did nothing the last time I used it.

I'm not trying to stir either. Just speaking my own personal experience. Perhaps the naturally occuring broad mite here have populated from an already pesticide resistant breed, I don't know, but what I do know is that the broad mite here do grow resistance very easily--and yes, even in small-scale conditions.

Click to expand...

thoate and sulfur. Dimethoate worked like a charm the first time I used it but did absolutely nothing the second time. Sulfur worked the first two or thre times I used it but did nothing the last time I used it.

I'm not trying to stir either. Just speaking my own personal experience. Perhaps the naturally occuring broad mite here have populated from an already pesticide resistant breed, I don't know, but what I do know is that the broad mite here do grow resistance very easily--and yes, even in small-scale conditions.

sorry, but there is no way mites can develop a complete resistance to anything in one year within a small garden. your friend probably is to blame here. did he leave his pesticide out in the sun perhaps?
dimethoate is also an organophosphate with a single mode of action. its nothing like abamectin, which i think acts on several nerve systems within insects.

im suprised he would use dimethoate tbh, i dont think its available to the general public here.

Trippa · Nov 4, 2012

Rogor (dimethoate) has only just in the last year been suspended for sale here.

And which friend are you reffering to?? Gas used the chemicals himself on his plants last season so it is first hand observation.

Anyway again thanks for your input but I politely stand by my organic methods and disagree with using abamectin , nervous system destroying chems or any other non organic chemical.

Now thats settled let's get back to the topic

Dez · Nov 5, 2012

Trippa said:
That product looks promising alright... I wonder how many years we will have to wait before it has passed all the hurdles to get on shore here. I would use it for sure.

I wonder if we could import this (or something similar) ourselves....
On the AQIS database:

Condition C5411
Non-Commercial
1. The conditions under the Commercial section apply.
Commercial
1. An Import Permit is not required for organic chemicals of plant or synthetic origin and alcohols, vitamins and amino acids derived from a microbial fermentation process.

http://www.aqis.gov....&LogSessionID=0

I'm not too sure about the "End use: All uses other than as animal foods, fertilisers or for growing purposes"

gnslngr said:
I checked that link for s-cide, and wouldn't ya know it..."temporarily unavail."-I like the sound of this one bigtime.

I think it is also available from other vendors through Amazon.

Pr0digal_son · Nov 6, 2012

Welcome back mate! You are becoming notorious for long THP layoffs. Per usual, you are bringing it with the photos. That is what we all want deep inside. Too much conversing and not enough pics around here!! Haha Don't go changing your handle to "Thrippa" just yet. You will charge forward to success.

stickman · Nov 6, 2012

Hi Trippa
I'm also growing entirely organic, so I'll be keeping an eye on your grow. I think you're right about the advantages of living in a temperate climate... It's a lot easier to clean up at the end of the season and let the cold winter temps kill off the things you don't want coming around. So far, all the critters that have been going after my peppers are large enough to be easy to spot and deal with. I take care of the Asian Garden Beetles with my thumb and bamboo skewers seem to take care of the cutworms. Good luck with your grow this season, and great pics!

romy6 · Nov 6, 2012

Great pics and very informative grow Trippa. Loving your take on growing. Please keep the amazing pod porn coming .

Trippa · Nov 6, 2012

gasificada said:
My PDN grows tall, but I wouldn't call it lanky. It fills out fairly well. And believe it or not, I've found the opposite.... mine seems to prefer a hotter environment! It's only started producing now that it's getting hotter. Last season it produced fine in the midst of summer too.

If I ever decide to grow Yellow 7 again, I know who I'm hitting up for seeds.

Hmm maybe I have a weird version of the PDN

. Hit away for yellow 7 seeds bro if you need them just give me a shout

Pr0digal_son said:
Welcome back mate! You are becoming notorious for long THP layoffs. Per usual, you are bringing it with the photos. That is what we all want deep inside. Too much conversing and not enough pics around here!! Haha Don't go changing your handle to "Thrippa" just yet. You will charge forward to success.

Hey pr0digal nice to see you here. Yeah I have been in hibernation a bit just sussing out a few things etc. I think I am a bit more on top of things now though so should be about a bit more regularly.
Thanks for the compliments and don't worry I won't be changing my name just yet

gnslngr said:
Ditto your Yellow 7 comments- my original pot bound Yellow 7-what a trooper. These are sweet for the typical trick lag of the 7 pots then HERE SHE COMES HOT!

I checked that link for s-cide, and wouldn't ya know it..."temporarily unavail."-I like the sound of this one bigtime.

Thanks for stopping in bro. Yeah those yellow 7s are great. That spray certainly looks promising I will be trying to grab some off amazon sometime soon I think

stickman said:
Hi Trippa
I'm also growing entirely organic, so I'll be keeping an eye on your grow. I think you're right about the advantages of living in a temperate climate... It's a lot easier to clean up at the end of the season and let the cold winter temps kill off the things you don't want coming around. So far, all the critters that have been going after my peppers are large enough to be easy to spot and deal with. I take care of the Asian Garden Beetles with my thumb and bamboo skewers seem to take care of the cutworms. Good luck with your grow this season, and great pics!

Hey man great to see you here and thanks for looking. Yeah the warm climates are a blessing and a curse because there is little respite like you pointed out. But you have to make the best of what you have I guess so plenty of long season chinenses in the grow log.
Thanks for the compliments as well.

romy6 said:
Great pics and very informative grow Trippa. Loving your take on growing. Please keep the amazing pod porn coming .

Hey Romy thanks for stopping in for a look. Well I try to be informative but learning all the time makes that information a ever changing beast

. Thanks for the compliments as well!!

gasificada · Nov 6, 2012

Trippa said:
Hmm maybe I have a weird version of the PDN . Hit away for yellow 7 seeds bro if you need them just give me a shout

Or maybe it's me with the weird version.

Don't get me wrong, it is above average tallish and the space between growth is spread out a little bit.... but it's tough. I dunno, when I hear "lanky", I think weak. But I guess you could call it lanky-ish. And for a lanky-ish plant, it sure doesn't take any crap from the wind!

It does seem to certainly prefer the heat though.

Trippa · Nov 7, 2012

No certainly not weak but long internodal spacing and tall is what I meant . I will see how mine goes this season in the heat.

I am getting pretty good pod sets on the few flowers I have on all my plants right now. I am making a point of keeping the moisture levels in the trays around the plant higher and I think it is helping decrease the root zone temps a little and increase the humidity. Not sure if it is just a coincidence or if it is helping but it seems to be this week.
Just had my other mystery super set first fruit and my 7pot/pod primo set first fruit as well. Woohoo pretty excited about that.

gasificada · Nov 7, 2012

Noooo, don't increase the humidity around your plants.... broad mite thrive in the humidity! :eek:

But yeah, catch 22, I guess.... keeping the root zone temps down is important. Now that it's getting hotter, my plants in pots are really taking a flogging. Plants in the ground are just loving the heat though. I'm so converting half the yard into beds next season!

"Long internodal spacing" is what I was trying to say before. I couldn't quite find the words.

I love a good mystery plant! Any hint as to what it might be yet?

Trippa · Nov 7, 2012

I guess its already humid enough for them to thrive so a little more should make (hopefully ) little difference.

No, no idea yet pods are only tiny but they have a definite bonnet type shape (early days though )

Portuge said:
Lookin good there Trippa, awesome pod shots btw. Can you get acouple more shots of your wild brazil for me... 2013 gonna be my first year growin em. so far im likin the way yours looks...

Thats my only other shot of the Wild Brazil at this stage. Its short and stocky and very branchy but I have had it fairly rootbound for an entire season and only just potted it up to a larger pot. I am of the belief through reading others experiences that it can become a fairly large plant?? (Don't quote me on that though as I have no actual experience of it doing so)