Trouble after repotting

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Psychographic

I have a Red Caribbean Habenaro and two Reaper plants in 5g pots that I wanted to amend the soil before the season starts.  Just before I did this, I started to harden them off for a couple of hours a day outside. Inside they were growing under a 70w MH along with direct morning sun. Normally when I re-pot a plant I don't mess with the rootball and just amend the soil it will grow into, or I trim the roots back a little while trying not to disturb the rootball too much. After watching a lot of videos on re-potting I decided to try getting a good amount of the soil out of the roots to get as much new soil around them as possible. The new soil is a combination of 2 parts potting soil to 1 part mushroom compost, a very small amount of worm casting, and a good amount of perlite. I decided to try the mushroom compost after talking with a couple at the nursery had raved about how well their plants did after using it. I also watered the plant after I re-potted them and the pots are way heavier than I remember them being after a good watering with the last soil.
 
This seems to be a disaster. it's been 5 days since Ive done this and I'm losing leaves at an alarming rate. I will also add that I've re-potted my new plants along with hardening them off and they are doing fantastic. I did not mess with the rootballs of the new plants.
 
Is it possible that the new soil is holding too much water, and if so what would you suggest to add for better drainage? How long do I wait before I try something else, I don't want the plants to not have enough time to adapt if it just a case of shock and I don't want to lose them because i waited too long to address the situation.
 
There is nothing worse than being a noob at something when the poop hits the fan like this.
 
What is a "good amount" of perlite?

You should be using about 30% of your overall volume in a mix that heavy. And it needs to be coarse. Often, you can only get coarse perlite at a nursery.

Suggest possibly adding some pine bark fines to your mix. This makes a big difference in structure.
 
When you took all the soil off the rootballs, did you keep them in the shade or full sun.  That's a lot of stress on the plants.  I think you should have left them
in the shade for a few days. to lessen some of the stress.
 
solid7 said:
What is a "good amount" of perlite?

You should be using about 30% of your overall volume in a mix that heavy. And it needs to be coarse. Often, you can only get coarse perlite at a nursery.

Suggest possibly adding some pine bark fines to your mix. This makes a big difference in structure.
Click to expand...
 
Well i guess I went too light on the perlite, I added about twice what a bag of potting soil would have but it's not close to 30%. I don't think it's coarse, they are between 1/8" to 1/4". If I can't find
pine bark fines, would coco coir be a good substitute?
roper2008 said:
When you took all the soil off the rootballs, did you keep them in the shade or full sun.  That's a lot of stress on the plants.  I think you should have left them
in the shade for a few days. to lessen some of the stress.
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They went into full sun. I think I'll leave them inside until I can get hopefully get them back on track.
 
Well i guess I went too light on the perlite, I added about twice what a bag of potting soil would have but it's not close to 30%. I don't think it's coarse, they are between 1/8" to 1/4". If I can't find
pine bark fines, would coco coir be a good substitute?
Click to expand...
No. They don't serve the same purpose.

If I make heavy mixes - those with compost fall into this category, I mix like this: (compare your ratios)

Equal parts (25% each)

Compost
Pine Bark Fines
Coco Coir or Peat
Coarse Perlite
 
The plant dropping the leaves is a direct response to root damage in the process of transplanting.  Either that or the direct sunlight is causing issues. 
 
Do the plants have any lightening of the leaves before dropping off?  Like an off-white/tan color?  
 
Vicious Vex said:
The plant dropping the leaves is a direct response to root damage in the process of transplanting.  Either that or the direct sunlight is causing issues. 
 
Do the plants have any lightening of the leaves before dropping off?  Like an off-white/tan color?  
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what causes an off-white/tan color ? I have a couple young plants doing that. 
 
SavinaRed said:
what causes an off-white/tan color ? I have a couple young plants doing that. 
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If the viens are still showing green - then it is the plants reaction to sun scald.  If the veins are brown, the leaf is just dead. 
 
Vicious Vex said:
The plant dropping the leaves is a direct response to root damage in the process of transplanting.  Either that or the direct sunlight is causing issues. 
 
Do the plants have any lightening of the leaves before dropping off?  Like an off-white/tan color?  
Click to expand...
The leaves are just as green as they were before the problem. They start to droop and lose their firmness, similar to what I've seen on plants that are over watered. I was very careful about removing most of the soil from the roots, but that doesn't mean that I didn't do any damage to them.
 
I've been trying to track down pine bark fines in my area, but it seems if it's not made by Miracle Grow, you won't find it around here. A couple of nurseries I've called didn't know what pine bark fines were, and most said "We have nuggets, but not fines". When I asked if they would do the same thing as fines, the reply was "I don't know". This gets very frustrating for a beginner like me.
 
Psychographic said:
The leaves are just as green as they were before the problem. They start to droop and lose their firmness, similar to what I've seen on plants that are over watered. I was very careful about removing most of the soil from the roots, but that doesn't mean that I didn't do any damage to them.
 
I've been trying to track down pine bark fines in my area, but it seems if it's not made by Miracle Grow, you won't find it around here. A couple of nurseries I've called didn't know what pine bark fines were, and most said "We have nuggets, but not fines". When I asked if they would do the same thing as fines, the reply was "I don't know". This gets very frustrating for a beginner like me.
Click to expand...
 
You might be better suited to just try and make your own compost.    I tend to avoid specialty products for fear that I won't be able to find them later.  
 
Is there a specific reason you are looking for pine bark fines? 
 
You might be better suited to just try and make your own compost.    I tend to avoid specialty products for fear that I won't be able to find them later.  
 
Is there a specific reason you are looking for pine bark fines?
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Because I suggested it above. Pine bark fines makes a great structure in potting mix. If 40-50% of your potting mix is a combination of PBF and perlite, you will never have a problem with drainage/aeration. The OP says he's a newbie, so it's a good product for newbies. (and just as good for veterans)

Walmart sells PBF in bags for under $4. They are in a purple bag, sold under the brand "Timberline", and tend to be called "pine bark mulch"
 
solid7 said:
Because I suggested it above. Pine bark fines makes a great structure in potting mix. If 40-50% of your potting mix is a combination of PBF and perlite, you will never have a problem with drainage/aeration. The OP says he's a newbie, so it's a good product for newbies. (and just as good for veterans)

Walmart sells PBF in bags for under $4. They are in a purple bag, sold under the brand "Timberline", and tend to be called "pine bark mulch"
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ah.  Well.  To each their own.  I would suggest (much cheaper option) buying a moisture gauge and learning to see what your "normal use" soil looks and feels like at various points of the moisture spectrum.  
 
Just my opinion.   
 
Best wishes OP. 
 
ah.  Well.  To each their own.  I would suggest (much cheaper option) buying a moisture gauge and learning to see what your "normal use" soil looks and feels like at various points of the moisture spectrum.  
 
Just my opinion.   
 
Best wishes OP.
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To each his own, for sure. Growing stuff is so simple, why make growing any harder? Build a proper substrate, and you're almost set. OP mentioned the substrate that he's made up, and I commented that it's super heavy for a potted plant. (maybe you missed that part, too) Pine bark is cheap. How much is a moisture gauge? And how does it help to make your mix more forgiving, on account of you've already overwatered?

I've never owned a moisture gauge. More shit to keep track of, when all I really want, is to grow peppers. You can tell with your hands if a potting mix is right or not. LOL
 
solid7 said:
To each his own, for sure. Growing stuff is so simple, why make growing any harder? Build a proper substrate, and you're almost set. OP mentioned the substrate that he's made up, and I commented that it's super heavy for a potted plant. (maybe you missed that part, too) Pine bark is cheap. How much is a moisture gauge? And how does it help to make your mix more forgiving, on account of you've already overwatered?

I've never owned a moisture gauge. More shit to keep track of, when all I really want, is to grow peppers. You can tell with your hands if a potting mix is right or not. LOL
Click to expand...
 
That is what I was referring too, as my fiance has anxiety about failing, she likes reassurance.  Over time she compared the feel of her naturally occurring soil to the moisture gauge.  Now she knows what it feels like when it needs to be watered.  Not everyone operates the same.  
 
You can grow peppers in a heavy or light medium, your watering habits just change.  A moisture gauge is less than 10 dollars.  Which is what he is going to spend on the pine fines + shipping since it doesn't appear to be offered locally to him. - with the 
 
I skimmed over reading this, and offered my advice.  My apologies if that offended you.    I don't like to purchase a lot of materials when it comes to plants nor do I like suggesting purchasing something at all.   Often times it is required, but I would rather offer a tool, than a consumable.   
 
Cheers. 
 
My apologies if that offended you.
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You didn't offend me. I'm not that person. You are 1000 times more likely to be offended by me, than to offend me. But all the same, we just agree to disagree.

See you the next time around.
 
Solid and Vex I appreciate the suggestions. While I love gadgets and things, I would much rather have a soil that drained properly.
 
Thanks again for all the help.
 
I got the PBM from Wallyworld today and re-potted one of the Reapers and the Red Caribbean. I can't believe how wet and dense the soil was when I dumped it out of the pots the plants were in. I guess I was drowning them. The new soil weighs a whole lot less.
 
 
 
I feel really stupid right about now!
 
 
 
 
If you guys aren't sick of my questions yet, I have another to ask. The Red Caribbean has very few leaves left but a lot of buds, should I snip them of to direct the plants energy toward growing leaves? If so, how long should I give the plant to recover from re-potting before doing so?
 
I got the PBM from Wallyworld today and re-potted one of the Reapers and the Red Caribbean. I can't believe how wet and dense the soil was when I dumped it out of the pots the plants were in. I guess I was drowning them. The new soil weighs a whole lot less.
Click to expand...
It's possible to grow in a heavy soil - but you've got to have good drainage. You can use a coarse sand to accomplish this, but I like the lighter mix better. If you take good care of the mix you've made, it will take good care of you. Be sure to feed it. It's better suited to organics, but you can do a conventional grow, as well. If you want to go to a fully synthetic regiment, you can lighten the soil up even more by omitting all compost, and increasing bark/mulch content.
 
 
I feel really stupid right about now!
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There's really nothing to feel stupid about. The path to success is paved with failure. I have about 10,000 failed grow media experiments that I undertook, before finding what really worked for me.

If you guys aren't sick of my questions yet, I have another to ask. The Red Caribbean has very few leaves left but a lot of buds, should I snip them of to direct the plants energy toward growing leaves? If so, how long should I give the plant to recover from re-potting before doing so?
Click to expand...
Absolutely snip those buds.

I am not very scientific about growing, so maybe somebody else will chime in with a better answer - but I've always felt that you "just sorta know", by way of your grower instincts, when the plant is ready to start bearing fruit. For me, when the plant starts to have that "mature" look, and seems like it's ready, then it probably is. Not a very good answer, I know, but I've been raising gardens since I was about 8 years old, so I don't really have any different perspective.
 
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