Upgraded/ing My Setup, Fixtures, and Bulbs... Couple Questions

[U)<now]

Hey Guys,
 
(scroll to the bottom for my main question and to skip my rambling... lol) I took about a season and a half away from growing and am happy to be back on THP!
 
    I recently upgraded my seed starting light setup. I went from cheap $10 wal-mart twin tube T12 fixtures (1-2 fixtures died every year) and 2700K bulbs.... to "nicer" twin tube T8 Fixtures (about $18 each x4) and T8 2800 lumen 4100K bulbs.
 
I never had any problems with the older setup in the past, it always produced BEAUTIFUL plants with nice, big, dark green leaves for me to pot up outside. I just wanted something higher quality and some better bulbs... There's always room for improvement.
 
I have not upgraded the light stand yet, but I purchased some 3/4" PVC today that I am re-building this exact stand with instead of the 1/2" PVC pictured to make it a little sturdier and also making it 4ft tall instead of 2ft tall so I can over winter a few plants this year if needed... also another reason for getting a little better lights. I may also add a couple more supports to fit additional 5th and 6th fixtures for maximum light during overwintering.
 
Heres a pic of the setup currently with 1/2" PVC and the new T8 Fixtures and bulbs... ( I started a tray of seeds late this year, to test the new lights before next spring and also I plan to overwinter a few for a headstart next year, likely wont see any pods this year as my season ends in September)
 

 
I read this article  http://thehotpepper.com/topic/25876-article-light-101/  which answered a few questions and I am fairly knowledgeable in the different types of lights, what colors and lumens are and all that stuff, but I have a few questions...
 
It seems a good average "watts per sq ft" is around 30w per sq ft according to some.  Currently, I have over a 3ft x 4ft table (12sq ft) 8 32w 2800 Lumen bulbs, this gives me a total 256 watts which comes out to be 21.3w per sq ft. and 22,400 Lumens. (1,867 Lumens per Sq ft) I would need 2 more fixtures (4 additional bulbs) to get me to around 32w per sq ft.
 
But I'm more concerned about the lumens and color of bulbs I should be using... Some say go with lower K bulbs like around 2700K then others say go with a more blue'ish bulb like 6500K?
 
I did some googling and found that "Blue and red light, which plants absorb, have the greatest effect on plant growth. Blue light is responsible primarily for vegetative (leaf) growth. Red light, when combined with blue light, encourages flowering."
 
I guess that "answer" would mean that 6500K bulbs should be better for starting seedlings and growing them out until they go outside, and then for overwintering, I could try a mix of bulbs like one 6500K and one 2700K bulb per fixture to encourage a few pods (which I know will be unlikely with out the use of MH (or HPS bulbs)
 
That would also explain why "Grow" bulbs look purpleish (a mixture of red and blue light)
 
Can anybody confirm that mainly blue light is responsible for vegetative (leaft) growth and red more for flowering?
 
Thanks guys, good to be back.
 
 
 
 

 

[megahot]

Yes, blue for growth red for flowering/ fruit. You can use both if you want when your plants start to bud. Your set up is perfect for starting seeds until they reach about a foot tall, then I recommend you switch to a higher wattage/lumen output such as a T5 or hps lights

 

[U)<now]

Yes, blue for growth red for flowering/ fruit. You can use both if you want when your plants start to bud. Your set up is perfect for starting seeds until they reach about a foot tall, then I recommend you switch to a higher wattage/lumen output such as a T5 or hps lights

Thanks Mega, you always have good info! I will return my 4100k in the morn for some 6500k bulbs.

Any direction as far as finding T5 fixtures and bulbs at reasonable prices?

 

[rebelgrower3]

The best prices i have found on T5's is searching amazon.

 

[MGOLD86]

Welcome back around!  I echo John's response, your setup is good but could  use some supplementing once you put on some growth.  If you are going to have them under lights for several months until plant out then maybe something like a T5 would be efficient for your space and a boost for your plants.  They are a bit more expensive and I would recommend you cruise eBay.  I got a 6 tube 4 ft on there for a reasonable price (I honestly can't remember the number) and free shipping.  You will find that a lot of vendors sell the same products on eBay and the prices are identical BUT they offer free shipping.  Although the light is a bit pricey, it will last you a while and it would be a good addition to future grow room setups.  You are upgrading now, and it probably won't be your last time...lol.  You could use the T5 on your OWs until your others get nice and big, then change the arrangement of the setup to maximize light to area coverage.  A lot of growers use T5s (a lot also use 8s for starting and early development), so you can get a lot of questions answered on the fixture. 
 
Also, make sure you post a pic of your updated setup!!

 

[megahot]

Thanks Mega, you always have good info! I will return my 4100k in the morn for some 6500k bulbs.
Any direction as far as finding T5 fixtures and bulbs at reasonable prices?

I recommend Ebay or Amazon and thank you.

 

[Monkey Hunter]

Plants need both blue and red light for optimum growth, depending on the kind of plant red can increase flowering.  Typically for veg the ratio is 2 blue bulbs to 1 red, then switched for flowering.  That being said, I don't know if that'll make much of a difference with peppers as they flower while continuing vegetative growth, unlike some flowers which have distinct veg and flowering stages...
 
Another thing to consider if adding more lights is the depth of penetration.  Fluorescent's in my experience only provide 4-8" of canopy before the lower growth gets spindly.  So if you'll be overwintering plants in your new 4' light stand side or bottom lighting may give you better results then cramming more lights above them.
 
As far as watts/sq ft goes, that's my least favourite way of determining how much lighting is needed as it's not accurate.  The amount of watts used doesn't relate to the amount of light produced, so it's not measuring what's needed by plants.  Lumens/sq ft is more accurate, but only as it relates to the amount of light generated (lumens are a measure of light visible to the human eye, which sees the spectrum not use able by plants).  PAR watt's is the proper measurement as it's the amount of light produced that's use able by the plant.  Unfortunately fluorescent's aren't measured that way as they aren't typically meant for growing (the marketed "grow" tubes are actually worse then using the right combination of blue/red bulbs as the heavy phosphor coating used to alter the spectrum seriously cuts down the intensity of the light), so your best bet is to cram as many in without the temperature spiking.

 

[U)<now]

Thanks for all the info guys. I typically start seeds in January and February depending on the plant and how fast it typically grows, so they are under the lights from then until May... about 4 to 5 months and get about 12 inches tall before going outside.

I guess I don't really need them to thrive over winter, just survive in good condition.

But I will check amazon and ebay for some T5 fixtures.

 

[U)<now]

I swapped my 4100K T8 2800 lumen bulbs for 6500K T8 2850 lumen bulbs today. They are pretty cool looking and very bright!!

I will post updatd pics once I get the new stand finished.

 

[U)<now]

I finally got around to finishing my new stand. I was able to design it to hold 5 twin tube T8 fixtures. Came out pretty good...
 
All the pieces laid out before assembling..

 
All put together...

 
Standing up...

 
Pic of the joints on top...

 
Screws in the top to stop it from folding...

A few more pics of old vs new setup and the new setup in action. I still only have 4 fixtures on it, but that's all I need right now to cover the seed trays anyways.
 
Old vs New

 
 
New setup in action!!!

 

 

 

 

[Monkey Hunter]

very nice, looks like the little ones are already enjoying their new set up.

 

[mlh5953]

I really like you new setup, and I think I might borrow the design for starting next seasons crop.
Thanks for sharing it!

 

[U)<now]

Thanks. I can post the measurements later today if you would like. I think all said and done it was less than $20 to build the stand.

 

[sreinhard88]

Thanks. I can post the measurements later today if you would like. I think all said and done it was less than $20 to build the stand.

This kind of stand would be perfect for the setup I'm working on, measurements and such would be greatly appreciated!  Did some rough calculations based on what I could see in the pics but it never hurts to double check.