fermenting Vinegar VS ferment

[Hurley]

I've been looking around and it seems like there are a few ways of lowering the pH of a sauce, but I'm trying to find out what works best: vinegar or ferment?


To me, it seems like a ferment works better if you are shooting for a sweet sauce or if you have the time to do it. Vinegar seems like it's better if you need something more...immediate.

There's also lemon or lime juice. But I figured that would be better than vinegar. But even after writing that, I'm now completely confused.


I know there are several 'tools' for different methods. I'm just trying to sort out the 'why'.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[salsalady]

from the Chile Pepper Weights and Measures thread-
What's the difference between fermenting a sauce and just cooking a sauce?
In order to be considered safe to be stored for an extended period of time, sauces need to have a low pH or be pressure canned.  pH numbers indicate the levels of acidity or alkalinity in foods or other things like hydroponics, fish tanks, etc.  Neutral pH is 7.0.  Things with a pH of above 7.0 are alkaline, things below 7.0 are acidic.  Sauces should be below 4.0 (minimum), preferable below 3.5 pH, to be considered safe to process/can/bottle and be considered shelf stable using the common Hot Fill-Hold processing method.
 
2 ways to lower the pH of foods is by fermentation or by adding acids.  Fermentation uses good bacteria to eat up the natural sugars in chiles and other produce to the point where the pH is below 4.0 and considered safe.  Kimchee and sauerkraut also use fermentation for food preservation. 
 
Fermentation requires time, anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months, but once it's properly done, the resulting product has a low pH and can be processed or refrigerated without the addition of any other vinegar or acids. 
 
The other method of getting a safe pH in a sauce or product is to simply add vinegar or lemon/lime juice to pods/produce.  Using vinegar to lower the pH is quick, the sauce can be cooked, bottled and eaten immediately.   
 
Fermenting Peppers 101 is an excellent tutorial on fermentation.
 
 
 
What is a mash?
Technically, a "mash" is anything that is ground up very fine, it refers to texture and consistency.  A "mash" does not automatically mean the ground up stuff is fermented! 
 
Lots of chiles are sold commercially as "Mash" and there are any number of combinations of ground up chiles, some with salt, some without salt, some with vinegar, some without, some fermented, some not.....It's an ongoing process to make people aware that "mash" does not mean "fermented".   A lot of people assume mash=fermented, but that is not correct. 
 
 
There is also information about pH in Making Hot Sauce 101
 
 
 
 
Beyond that, it's up to your personal taste.  Some people LOVE the tang of fermented sauces, some LOVE vinegar flavors, Personally, I don't care that much for a strong fermented flavor or for a strong vinegar flavor.  You can have a sauce with a pH of 3.0 and be sweet.  I like a sauce that is 1/2 fermented peppers and stuff and 1/2 fresh peppers and stuff. 
 
It's all about balance~

 

[salsalady]

more notes about vinegars and citrus juices-
What kind of vinegar or acid? Once again, it’s up to you! What ever you like! Be aware of the acidity levels of different vinegars if substituting one type of vinegar for another in a recipe. Rice vinegar has a lower acidity level than white vinegar. If rice vinegar is substituted 1:1 in a recipe calling for white vinegar, the recipe won’t have enough acidity.  You may want to use other vinegars for their different flavor profiles, just remember to compensate if there is a difference in their acidity %.  Lemon and lime juice are other common acids that work well in hot sauces.  Extension Services have approved the substitution of lemon/lime juice in place of vinegar in their approved recipes, but not the reciprocal.  Lemon/Lime generally have more acidity than vinegar.  If the approved recipe calls for lemon/lime juice,  substituting regular vinegar may not achieve the appropriate pH level that lemon/lime juice would have.

 

 

[Redeemer]

I've been looking around and it seems like there are a few ways of lowering the pH of a sauce, but I'm trying to find out what works best: vinegar or ferment?


To me, it seems like a ferment works better if you are shooting for a sweet sauce or if you have the time to do it. Vinegar seems like it's better if you need something more...immediate.

There's also lemon or lime juice. But I figured that would be better than vinegar. But even after writing that, I'm now completely confused.


I know there are several 'tools' for different methods. I'm just trying to sort out the 'why'.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 
salsalady is the pro so consider my additions subjective. Bith a ferment, and an acid addition will change the flavor. In most cases the flavor added with a ferment is desireable, and takes care of your PH. I have been adding some acids to the final product at cook time, even if the PH is fine, to balance the flavor as well as thin it out. I think ultimately it comes down to the flavor profile you want, and how much time you are willing to commit. I am very fond of adding vitamin C because it doesn't have a huge flavor impact, works very well on PH, and will also naturally preserve the color due to antioxidant properties. Lastly, if you aren't satisfied with the finished product, you can keep it as a cold remedy

 

[turbo]

I'll chime in a bit to what other people have said.  For me it's all about the flavor I'm looking for in the sauce.  I personally love vinegar.  Not white vinegar mind you...too strong, no flavor...bleh!  But all the other kinds of vinegar I love and often sip with a spoon.  Some of my favorites for hot sauce:
 
white wine - one of my workhorse vinegars. Most of my sauces use this for at least half their vinegar
cane vinegar - made from sugar cane, and another one of my workhorse vinegars. Its sweeter, so often I'll use it if the sauce needs to be sweeter
malt vinegar - goes great with sauces that use smoked peppers.  I usually use about 1/3 malt, 2/3 white wine
rose wine - usually very sweet, but nice flavor.  I'll splash a few spoonfuls in if I need the sauce to brighten up and be a bit sweeter
rice - subtle and nice. Often I'll use rice vinegar instead of white wine
balsamic - just a dash'll do yea
 
I'll also add lime or lemon juice at the end of a sauce to even out the flavor I'm looking for.
 
As far as fermentation goes, I'm just not that big a fan of the flavor of fermented sauces.  I've tried it about 5-6 times and the flavor just does nothing for me.
 
Now for the all important pH question. Your sauce acidity is really important...if you want to make it shelf stable.  If you are making a sauce for home use (NOT commercial), and you aren't making a gallon of it, and your spouse isn't gonna be mad at having a couple bottles or jars of sauce taking up fridge space, I say don't sweat it.  Design your sauce for flavor, keep it in the fridge.
 
tl;dr - vinegar vs fermentation really depends on the flavors you like.  pH very important for commercial and shelf stable sauces, much more fuzzy for enjoying at home and storing in the fridge.