fertilizer What Fertilizers do y'all use?

[MrSpiffy]

 
There in lies the problem.
 
You're not looking to complicate things and want to keep it simple. You're not going to get an Explain it like I'm 5 answer while keeping it simple-necessarily. Sure you can have a list of what to add and put in but the way that it works might get a bit complicated until you understand it. And above you stated that the anecdotes don't tell you WHY it works.
 
Personally when these guys who have a lot of knowledge start talking like Solid7 and NEChileman I kind of gloss over internally. Not because it's boring but rather because it's out of my league.
 
This forum has a lot of really good info. I remember my first year here I dug through a looooot o old threads.
 
Check this thread out   http://thehotpepper.com/topic/10245-all-about-soil-a-great-resource-i-thought-i-would-share/

 
Thanks!  I'll poke around some more.  I was hoping for a more-consolidated guide, but that doesn't seem to be available.  So, I'll try to dig a little deeper and do some more research.  I did see the "All about soil" thread that you linked.  It has some good info on the major components of soil, but doesn't really include much information on why components are good/bad or fertilizing during grow season.  Still, I'll probably bookmark it for the future.  I plan to use ProMix for an easy start.  (I'm growing in containers.)
 

 
The reason I didn’t go into full detail is because most of what I posted was self explanatory. Here’s the reasons behind what I included in my list, now mind you every area of the country has different soil make up. Most of you northern folks have fantastic soil and putting in the ground with some mycorrhizae on the roots might be enough 
Organic fertilizer: peppers eventually deplete soil nutes (granules slowly break down) miracle gro is synthetic and I don’t want that in my body. 
mycorrizhae: Fungus breaks down nutes to a much smaller level allowing plants roots to absorb at a much faster rate (it can make an alkaline soil feel like acidic to peppers, I.e. ph lockout)
Epsom salt: magnesium helps the plants chlorophyll production 
Iron-tone supplement: plants need iron and a deficiency will manifest in leaf color usually 
Blueberry acidifier: takes an alkaline soil and slowly turns it acidic through sulfur and bacteria change (if the mycorrhizae die off then your plants won’t go ph lockout) 
 
This will help new growers immensely when figuring out why the plant is acting up 
 

Thanks for this!  The labeled diagram and details will help a ton.
 
I guess my definition of "basic" goes beyond what others equate as basic advice or information.  What I should probably look around for is more of a class on growing peppers, if those exist. Wanting to learn more about the details is just a thing for me, I guess.  I'm an engineer, so understanding some basics about how these additives interact with the plant feel like they're important, to me.  I don't need a full-on chemistry class, but the diagram above is the kind of stuff I'm looking for.
 
Anyway, I'm derailing the thread!  My apologies...
 
As for ferts, as I mentioned earlier, I had purchased the General Hydroponics 3-part Flora liquid fertilizers.  I'll continue trying these this year and see how they go.  Thanks to GPR, I now think my last few seasons have had big lack of magnesium, with yellowing leaves dropping off the plants half-way through the grow season.  And reading around, epsom salts are a big thing.  Time to mix up my own spray!

 

[solid7]

Thanks!  I'll poke around some more.  I was hoping for a more-consolidated guide, but that doesn't seem to be available.  So, I'll try to dig a little deeper and do some more research.  I did see the "All about soil" thread that you linked.  It has some good info on the major components of soil, but doesn't really include much information on why components are good/bad or fertilizing during grow season.  Still, I'll probably bookmark it for the future.  I plan to use ProMix for an easy start.  (I'm growing in containers.)

 
Pro-Mix is fine. The only thing to be mindful of, is what type of Pro-Mix you're using. Does it have fertilizer? (most Pro-Mix does seem to)
 

Thanks for this!  The labeled diagram and details will help a ton.

 
To be perfectly honest, you should probably throw that thing away, as it seldom helps anyone. Plant deficiencies rarely occur one at a time. If you're a beginner, and don't know the common growing maladies, you'll drive yourself nuts, chasing issues down one at a time, reactively adding this or that, and often watching the problem worsen. If you follow good basic advice, then your plant health will be able to be diagnosed holistically. Meaning, that individual deficiencies will not occur. The flip side of that, is that often, what looks like an individual deficiency, has a root cause in something much more systemic. For example, overwatering can cause a complete disruption of nutrient uptake.

Summary: There are very few clear cut cases where that chart will help you. When you have a proper mix, and a complete nutrient/fertilizer, when something goes wrong, that chart won't help you fix it.

 

As for ferts, as I mentioned earlier, I had purchased the General Hydroponics 3-part Flora liquid fertilizers.  I'll continue trying these this year and see how they go.  Thanks to GPR, I now think my last few seasons have had big lack of magnesium, with yellowing leaves dropping off the plants half-way through the grow season.  And reading around, epsom salts are a big thing.  Time to mix up my own spray!

 
You said you are an engineer, so let me ask you the kind of question that an engineer might consider...  If you have a *known* deficiency of magnesium (do you actually?), and you know that the primary mechanism of nutrient transport is the roots, why would you want to go spraying the leaves?  Isn't that analogous to having a grease fitting on a piece of rolling machinery, but instead spraying oil externally?
.
Be careful with the advice you get around here on extra stuff.  A lot of folks do things, "jest becuz".  Start simple, and do things for known reasons.  It's often a whole lot easier to diagnose things that go wrong, when you use the right tool for the job.

 

[Geonerd]

Every summer the Free-Tailed bats fly up from Mexico to roost under many of the bridges in town.
If you don't mind people giving you some damn strange looks, a little effort with a broom and dust pan will yield buckets of black gold... BAT CRAP!
 
These guys are insectivores. They produce a high N product that is also well endowed with all sorts of useful trace minerals.  The stuff works well as a top dressing, or mixed into the soil in modest amounts.

 

[MrSpiffy]

@Solid7, good question on dosing magnesium.  Since GPR posted the diagram, I've done a little searching around and read multiple articles and noticed videos from growers, including some from research groups, extensions, and fertilizer manufacturers, that seem to confirm those suspicions and discuss applying magnesium both to soil (liquid or granular) and as a foliar spray.  I can certainly try both methods to see which works best, if I notice the same issue of yellowing leaves and dropping flowers.
 
@Geonerd, don't forget a respirator!  Bat guano is not something you want to breathe.

 

[solid7]

@Solid7, good question on dosing magnesium.  Since GPR posted the diagram, I've done a little searching around and read multiple articles and noticed videos from growers, including some from research groups, extensions, and fertilizer manufacturers, that seem to confirm those suspicions and discuss applying magnesium both to soil (liquid or granular) and as a foliar spray.  I can certainly try both methods to see which works best, if I notice the same issue of yellowing leaves and dropping flowers.
 
@Geonerd, don't forget a respirator!  Bat guano is not something you want to breathe.

 
 
Magensium deficiency can be a real thing, and that's not the issue.  Leaves can absorb come nutrients.  Again, not the issue.  The question being posed is, why would you choose the least efficient means of delivery, as your default method?  Or even in a "jest becuz" scenario?  And if you choose a fertilizer that has enough magnesium, why would you need to add extra?  Foliar applications demand repeated foliar applications. (there's the point)  Not simple.  Complete nutrients/fertilizers on a proper schedule, should never require this, pending some outside influencer. (do we solve problems that we don't have?)
.
You said you were a beginner, and the overflow of info was boggling.  I'm trying to set you on an easy path.  Peppers are one of the easiest fruiting plants one could choose to grow. 

 

[MrSpiffy]

Magensium deficiency can be a real thing, and that's not the issue.  Leaves can absorb come nutrients.  Again, not the issue.  The question being posed is, why would you choose the least efficient means of delivery, as your default method?  Or even in a "jest becuz" scenario?  And if you choose a fertilizer that has enough magnesium, why would you need to add extra?  Foliar applications demand repeated foliar applications. (there's the point)  Not simple.  Complete nutrients/fertilizers on a proper schedule, should never require this, pending some outside influencer. (do we solve problems that we don't have?)
.
You said you were a beginner, and the overflow of info was boggling.  I'm trying to set you on an easy path.  Peppers are one of the easiest fruiting plants one could choose to grow. 

 
That's fair, and I appreciate your guidance.  But, the symptoms of mag deficiency that each of those sources show line up pretty darned well with what I saw the last few seasons trying to grow in containers.  If the symptoms fit, why wouldn't I apply magnesium when I see those symptoms?
 
And foliar application is more-complex?  I guess I don't see how a spray vs drizzling some granules around the plant is all that different.  But, again, I don't have the gardening knowledge to know why one is preferred over the other.
 
However, we're straying off-topic here.  I'll consider making a new post, rather than cluttering up this one with side discussion.

 

[sirex]

I think what solid7 is saying is this.

It's easier to use a well rounded media that you don't really have fuck with.

Instead of..

Using a subpar media you have to constantly tinker with.

In my experience, if I start a "season" (cuz we really have those in FL ) out with new media (like I said i use Jungle growth that has ferts in in but will also use MG) and simply add some perlite, really the only thing I'm worrying about is pests (which love juicy ferts) and not deficiency's or lockouts from this or that.

I've done the adding this fert at this time and foliar spraying calcium every other day and I've come to appreciate setting and forgetting.

 

[MrSpiffy]

I think what solid7 is saying is this.

It's easier to use a well rounded media that you don't really have fuck with.

Instead of..

Using a subpar media you have to constantly tinker with.

In my experience, if I start a "season" (cuz we really have those in FL ) out with new media (like I said i use Jungle growth that has ferts in in but will also use MG) and simply add some perlite, really the only thing I'm worrying about is pests (which love juicy ferts) and not deficiency's or lockouts from this or that.

I've done the adding this fert at this time and foliar spraying calcium every other day and I've come to appreciate setting and forgetting.

That's fair.  If I run into the same thing again this year, I'll try the epsom salts and see how it goes.  I used ProMix last year and ran into those issues.
 
I honestly think I've caused multiple issues with my plants in the past, including too much sun and over-feeding.  Again, that's why I'm looking for a better guide on what I should and shouldn't do regarding growing conditions, soil, and fertilizer.  I see recipes for mixes, what brands are out there, what a ton of people are using, anecdotes on what's worked for someone, and lots of good-but-scattered advice, etc.  But just didn't find a good single source of info to help me grasp what I'm doing or why people use one type of container soil mix vs another.
 
This year I'll sprout my seeds, give them periodic water, make sure they get a little shade in the hot parts of the day, and try to hold off on feeding them anything and see how things go.

 

[solid7]

I've done the adding this fert at this time and foliar spraying calcium every other day and I've come to appreciate setting and forgetting.

 
And there you go.  Rex, FTW.

 

[sirex]

That's fair.  If I run into the same thing again this year, I'll try the epsom salts and see how it goes.  I used ProMix last year and ran into those issues.
 
I honestly think I've caused multiple issues with my plants in the past, including too much sun and over-feeding.  Again, that's why I'm looking for a better guide on what I should and shouldn't do regarding growing conditions, soil, and fertilizer.  I see recipes for mixes, what brands are out there, what a ton of people are using, anecdotes on what's worked for someone, and lots of good-but-scattered advice, etc.  But just didn't find a good single source of info to help me grasp what I'm doing or why people use one type of container soil mix vs another.
 
This year I'll sprout my seeds, give them periodic water, make sure they get a little shade in the hot parts of the day, and try to hold off on feeding them anything and see how things go.

Where do you live spiffy?

 

[MrSpiffy]

Where do you live spiffy?

NE Colorado.  Specifically, the Loveland/Ft. Collins area.

 

[sirex]

 
I honestly think I've caused multiple issues with my plants in the past, including too much sun and over-feeding.  Again, that's why I'm looking for a better guide on what I should and shouldn't do regarding growing conditions, soil, and fertilizer.  I see recipes for mixes, what brands are out there, what a ton of people are using, anecdotes on what's worked for someone, and lots of good-but-scattered advice, etc.  But just didn't find a good single source of info to help me grasp what I'm doing or why people use one type of container soil mix vs another.
 
This year I'll sprout my seeds, give them periodic water, make sure they get a little shade in the hot parts of the day, and try to hold off on feeding them anything and see how things go.

 
They need sun. But also shade. So what I do is try to position my plants so they get a lot of morning sun and after noon around 2 pm they are in an area that gets shaded. That way they get good sun but can get some rest from that killer midday afternoon sun. I use to have to use shade cloth but have a good area now where they can achieve that without it.
 
Solid7 and Wicked Mike have learned me that pests looooove ferts. Especially Nitrogen. So I dont really add anything unless its been a looooong time since potting up or putting in new soil.
 
It's simple if I let it be. I literally fill up a 5 gallon bucket with my potting mix then add handfuls of perlite. That assists with the drainage. I get a lot of rain here in FL especially summer and they don't like wet feet like that. But that's it man. It can be as easy or as complicated as I want to make it.
 
As far as watering goes-I'm in a different camp than a lot of folks here. A lot of people think peppers like dry soil. I think they confuse that peppers don't don't want to drown with they like it dry. Plants have roots balls. Those roots absorb water and nutrients and deliver them back to the plant. I'm of the opinion that a happy root ball is the first step to a happy plant. But then again I deal with 90F+ temps a good portion of the year. So I water more than other people here. I don't stick a finger in and water when its two knuckles dry or any of that shit. I pick the plant up and over the years can just tell by the weight of my plants when it needs some water.
 
 
These pictures suck but you'll get the gist.
 
 
Here's a spicy slice jap to the right in the back you can see a red bhut and a yellow bell in my yard right now. They should be in bigger containers but I'm using those containers for plants the rest of the family eat.
 

 
 
The pictures are a shitty quality but you can see the plants are all happy and healthy with nothing but Jungle Growth soil, added perlite sun and water.

 

[MrSpiffy]

 
They need sun. But also shade. So what I do is try to position my plants so they get a lot of morning sun and after noon around 2 pm they are in an area that gets shaded. That way they get good sun but can get some rest from that killer midday afternoon sun. I use to have to use shade cloth but have a good area now where they can achieve that without it.
 
Solid7 and Wicked Mike have learned me that pests looooove ferts. Especially Nitrogen. So I dont really add anything unless its been a looooong time since potting up or putting in new soil.
 
It's simple if I let it be. I literally fill up a 5 gallon bucket with my potting mix then add handfuls of perlite. That assists with the drainage. I get a lot of rain here in FL especially summer and they don't like wet feet like that. But that's it man. It can be as easy or as complicated as I want to make it.
 
As far as watering goes-I'm in a different camp than a lot of folks here. A lot of people think peppers like dry soil. I think they confuse that peppers don't don't want to drown with they like it dry. Plants have roots balls. Those roots absorb water and nutrients and deliver them back to the plant. I'm of the opinion that a happy root ball is the first step to a happy plant. But then again I deal with 90F+ temps a good portion of the year. So I water more than other people here. I don't stick a finger in and water when its two knuckles dry or any of that shit. I pick the plant up and over the years can just tell by the weight of my plants when it needs some water.
 
 
These pictures suck but you'll get the gist.
 
 
Here's a spicy slice jap to the right in the back you can see a red bhut and a yellow bell in my yard right now. They should be in bigger containers but I'm using those containers for plants the rest of the family eat.
 
<PIC>
 
The pictures are a shitty quality but you can see the plants are all happy and healthy with nothing but Jungle Growth soil, added perlite sun and water.

Nice!  They do look happy.
 
I have a nice spot on the East side of my porch where I plan to set them up.  They'll get sun until about noon and then shade the rest of the day.  Based on your input, I think that contributed to my struggles last year.  I knew they were hot, so I watered and used cloth pots to help cool the roots via evaporation, but that only helps so much.  I thought they needed lots of sun, which is why I kept them in nearly full sun all day.  They needed water frequently, both due to the heat and due to the evaporation, so they were higher maintenance.  So, between too much food, too much sun, and too much water...  well, I guess there's my answer!  Give them some shade.
 
That should cut down on the required water, give them time to rest and keep cool, and I'll see how they do without any fertilizer.

 

[Codeman]

I'm moving away from black kow manure and towards something else. What can I replace the black kow with instead? Epsoma seems to be better than daddy Pete's barnyard fertilizer for granular. moving away from fish emulsion due to neighbors cat. Don't want to take that chance. I've made alfalfa tea with molasses to jumpstart soil bacteria and to help breakdown the hay I got laying on top in my containers. In a couple weeks I'll be sprinkling Epson salt. Are iron cheletes necessary? What else in addition can I add or do?

 

[sirex]

I'm moving away from black kow manure and towards something else. What can I replace the black kow with instead? Epsoma seems to be better than daddy Pete's barnyard fertilizer for granular. moving away from fish emulsion due to neighbors cat. Don't want to take that chance. I've made alfalfa tea with molasses to jumpstart soil bacteria and to help breakdown the hay I got laying on top in my containers. In a couple weeks I'll be sprinkling Epson salt. Are iron cheletes necessary? What else in addition can I add or do?

I don't know a lot but some people I do, do.

That being said I've been told that my plants will hardly ever be iron deficient. And that if I think they are I better know for sure because it's real easy to mess some shit up with iron for plants.

 

[Codeman]

I don't know a lot but some people I do, do.

That being said I've been told that my plants will hardly ever be iron deficient. And that if I think they are I better know for sure because it's real easy to mess some shit up with iron for plants.

Thanks. Looks like I don't need iron. Really once a month ill be adding epsoma plant tone. Every two months I'll add a cup of Epsom salt around each plant. Every two weeks I'll add alfalfa tea. Maybe toss a handful of alfalfa pellets here and there. Then that's that. Simple.

 

[FLPepperhead]

A co-worker who has been growing peppers for many years recommended Osmocote plus due to it's slow release..
He grows many types of peppers and got me into growing them about a year ago.. I'm in my 2nd year and my first year of growing didn't turn out as expected.. I planted Thai, orange habanero, St. Augustine Datil, Ghost Peppers and chile del arbol...  I first dried the peppers and then planted the seeds.. The only plants that sprouted were the orange habaneros. I figured out why I failed on my first attempt.. The plants were exposed to the afternoon sun in steamy Florida. The plants really suffered in the afternoon heat.. My wife was more successful.. She didn't even dry the peppers.. The just buried some thai peppers in potting mix and placed them in the morning sun and they sprouted like crazy and produced 100's of fruits. She used the same Osmocote fertilizer that I used for my peppers.
So, when I received my reaper seeds (which turned out to likely be Trinidad Moruga Scorpions), I placed them in the morning sun and added Omocote. The seeds produced beautiful plants. From 10 seeds, it produced 7 plants..   The first 3 plants already have close to mature fruit..

 

[Codeman]

A co-worker who has been growing peppers for many years recommended Osmocote plus due to it's slow release..
He grows many types of peppers and got me into growing them about a year ago.. I'm in my 2nd year and my first year of growing didn't turn out as expected.. I planted Thai, orange habanero, St. Augustine Datil, Ghost Peppers and chile del arbol...  I first dried the peppers and then planted the seeds.. The only plants that sprouted were the orange habaneros. I figured out why I failed on my first attempt.. The plants were exposed to the afternoon sun in steamy Florida. The plants really suffered in the afternoon heat.. My wife was more successful.. She didn't even dry the peppers.. The just buried some thai peppers in potting mix and placed them in the morning sun and they sprouted like crazy and produced 100's of fruits. She used the same Osmocote fertilizer that I used for my peppers.
So, when I received my reaper seeds (which turned out to likely be Trinidad Moruga Scorpions), I placed them in the morning sun and added Omocote. The seeds produced beautiful plants. From 10 seeds, it produced 7 plants..   The first 3 plants already have close to mature fruit..

So what did he add when he transplanted the pepper plant initially? How many time did he put down the osmocote plus? What was his feeding every week or every two weeks?

 

[FLPepperhead]

So what did he add when he transplanted the pepper plant initially? How many time did he put down the osmocote plus? What was his feeding every week or every two weeks?

 You only apply Osmocote every 3 to 4 months due to it's slow release.   3 to 4 times per year.

 

[sirex]

I think the "original" grower of the Pink Tiger attributed the fantastic striping to osmocote.