What makes a cider, a cider? and not something else?

I've always thought it was the amount of sediment left in the juice, or the amount of filtering to produce a clear juice which was the determining factor, but I'm just guessing. Let's see what Wiki~ says-

edit-
Didn't make it to Wiki, but here's a thoroughly inconclusive post. :crazy:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/391/whats-the-difference-between-apple-juice-and-apple-cider


Another source references European countries that refer to fermented juice as cider.


I'll contact a friend of mine who is a 5th generation apple grower in Washington State (THE apple capitol of the WORLD :lol: ) and see what he has to say.
 
I live in major cider producing area. I've made it myself ,same way my farther makes, ans his father made it... well you get the idea. The apples you pick off the tree you keep and eat/cook/etc... cider was just a way to use the "drops" at least at first. the common way of making cider is crush the apples and press the juice out slowly. Really your aim is to bruise the apple as much as possible before and during the process.

Now to actually answer the question. The difference between cider and apple juice is simple... oxidation. The bruising, crushing ,aging of the apples all helps to oxidize it. This own reason real cider will always be brown, not golden or yellowish. The ciders that tend to be sour... that's NOT from picking the apples early. You see when you make cider the apples quiet often are well further along then you would like to eat. And well often they had started to ferment already, with not just yeast but lactobacillus which is the same critter you use to ferment peppers with. If it's in the cider it can make it turn quiet sour tasting.

If you think that oxidation can't make that much difference compare a black tea and, a green tea. What makes the black tea black is just that it oxidized.
 
I should probably say in Britain, cider is always alcoholic, I kinda meant when you make it, what stops it being a apple wine and being cider or is just that its made with apples or pears?
 
all cider is wine

not all wine is cider

to be classified as a wine, it must have the majority of fermentables coming from a fruit

to be considered real cider, the fermentables can not be any fruit but apples

are there exceptions, yes

have there been thousands of arguments over the two, yes
 
Archthesheep said:
I should probably say in Britain, cider is always alcoholic, I kinda meant when you make it, what stops it being a apple wine and being cider or is just that its made with apples or pears?
Click to expand...

Allow the apples(Yes it must be apples for cider) to oxidize before/during juicing and it's cider. Other wise it's apple juice.

Here if the cider is alcoholic we call it "Hard Cider" otherwise it's just cider.
 
My Source referred me to another SOURCE, who is an apple juice/cider maker and this is his reply~

"In Europe, when you go to a pub and order "cider", it is what we call "hard
cider". Everything else is "juice". In this country the terms "juice" and
"cider" are used interchangeably.

We (Americans) used to be big "cider" (with alcohol) drinkers - John Adams
kept a keg from his Massachusetts' farm at the White House and had a glass
with breakfast. Then came the Germans and beer, and then the French..."


Now, back to your country (since there were posts after I sent the question off to the experts) and assuming it's a an alcoholic juice, I would guess that the difference between "hard cider" and "wine" is the alcohol content. There are some brews made with hops and grains like beer but their alcohol content is above what is allowable for beer so they have to be called "barley wine" or some such name.


Good info on this thread, I'll keep watching to see what other interesting info comes around~
 
It all depends on where you are from.

Cider is freshly pressed with sediment. Hard cider ferments with its own sugars. Apple wine you mix in an external sugar source. Juice is no sediment and clear.

However like what was said above… there is an endless argument what it is.

Rock on Salsalady with your post. Gotta love the John Adams.
 
Hello from a Wisconsin wine and beer maker who worked at the door peninsular winery and brewed beer at the shipwrecked brew pub in door county. And who holds a B.S in chemistry.

The US marketing community bastardized the name of cider to sell more product--it is nothing but a market ploy to mislead the public and increase their profit margin :crazy:

Before marketing squatted on it; cider was brown liquid with apple meal on the bottom as DaQatz says above. The original cider was all fermented---there was no such thing as apple cider that was non-alcoholic because all natural apple pressing will ferment from the yeasts in the environment. The lactobacillus bacteria is in the environment and will perhaps contaminate cider but normally the yeast cells are so much more prevalent they overcome and do not influence the cider until the yeast have turned all the sugars into alcohol.

After the yeast have turned all the sugars into alcohol then the lactobacillus and other bacteria begins to convert the alcohols into acids and alcholides. This may take 2-3 weeks before they become numerous enough to make the cider acidic so in most condition pressed cider will be alcoholic for 1-2 weeks. During which time you can get blotoed :drunk: with real cider. Or as they say Hard cider above. Natural apple juice lasts only about 1-2 days---after that it is making enough alcohol that you would not want your infant to drink it. After 3 weeks it will be making enough acid that you would not want to try and get drunk on it normally.

Since bacteria live on spoilt fruit if you make cider out of good apples there will be very few bacteria present on the skin of the apple. However there will be a lot of yeast cells and they will get to work immediately after you squash the meats. I have drank 1 month old cider that is still hard and not acid if it was made with good apples. :high:

Your friendly booser :woohoo:
 
Generally speaking, a cider is an apple juice product that is fermented with ale yeast. An apple juice product fermented with a wine yeast is an apple wine. I make a traditional German apfelwein for my wife that is VERY simple, and she loves it. All it takes is five gallons of apple juice, a pound of dextrose, and a packet of Montrachet yeast. The dextrose kicks the ABV up to 8-9%, and can be left out. Montrachet will attenuate up to a fairly high ABV level, so it comes out dry. If you want some residual sweetness, add some lactose, because it won't ferment.
 
As far as we (the British) are concerned, Cider is fermented Apple juice, the french call it Cidre('cos they can't spell ) and some other Europeans call it Apple wine.
If you use Pears to make an alcoholic beverage it would be called a Perry.
If you mix Apples with any other fruit and ferment it then it becomes a wine.
If it is then distilled it becomes Brandy.

In america and some parts of Canada Cider is unfiltered Apple Juice, and as stated Hard Cider is what we simply call Cider.

I hope that explains it.
 
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