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When should I expect the first true leaves?

HwyBill

HwyBill

Banned
I started growing from seeds recently, and my first batch was pretty much a failure. Most of them germinated well, but then they grew up very quickly and fell over and died before they sprouted any true leaves.

After doing my research, I believed they were becoming "too leggy" from probably not enough light, and perhaps not enough heat, and maybe not even enough water.

So I made a light box for them. They are now getting about 16 hrs of light a day, plenty of heat, and I have been watering them daily. So far they seem to be doing pretty good, and I don't think they are in danger of getting "too leggy" this time, but so far the first true leaves have not emerged.

I was just wondering... how long after they sprout should I expect to see the first true leaves?

Thanks.
 
Good to know. They haven't sprout more than about a week ago, so I think I should still be OK.

Admittedly, I do not have a green thumb and no experience growing chiles before. I also learn very much by trial and error, so I made some changes and even if I can't see this batch out to fruition, I will consider "true leaves" progress; and thus a success.

A couple more naive questions:

- I planted three seeds per potting pellet. Should I prune away the "scrawny" ones once true leaves begin to form, or do I prune away soon after sprouting?

- Some of the seed coats have remained attached to the cotylendon leaves. Do these impede growth? Should I remove them after they sprout, or wait for them to fall off naturally?
 
I noticed that I got my first true leaves to start coming out about 5 days after they sprouted, which is pretty quick, but I have 4 100w equivalent CFL lights at 6,500k and during the day the cover to the front of the shelf is open to the southern facing windows, and I measured the light that they get at about.. 30-50k+ lumens.. which is a lot, so they are kind of in super growing speed lol..I would just say that the plants don't really grow much if at all in height, maybe 1cm, before the true leaves came up.. but maybe a little more is fine, but it shouldn't be growing tall much before the true leaves come out

and as far as your other questions, I don't really like to cull them so I keep them all and separate them later, but anyways if you are doing it, it is really up to you when, I would wait until there are at least 1 set of true leaves.. maybe until there are 2-3 so that you know they are going well.. and just pluck out the 2 slower growing ones.. but I might not pull it out if it is tangled with the other roots, so you could just clip the stem at the soil level.. should work.

and for the seeds caps still stuck on them.. just spray them with water a few times a day to keep it moist and they will come off.. some people can take them off, but the 2 times I tried it, I killed the plant by taking the leaves off with it as well.. .was much easier to just leave it be and keep the seed cap moist until it comes off on it's own
 
It depends on the variety and the conditions you have set up. Superhots and chocolate habaneros tend to take longer than others to grow their true leaves.
 
Right now, I have Serrano, Habenero, Jalapeno, Bhut Jolokia, Anaheim, Poblano, Cayenne, Guajillo, Thai, Shisito, Hungarian Yellow Wax, Mexican Banana, de Arbol, Manzano, and Chilata.

Have suceeded in germinated most of them, but not all. I haven't been successful in getting any of them to express true leaves yet, but I'm hopeful they just need a little more time. As I mentioned, I'm very new to this, and I'm sure that I have a less than ideal grow operation going at the moment.

Here's another particuarly naive question. Is it possible to germinate seeds from dried chile packages? I've been able to germinate seeds from commercial seed packages and fresh fruits (after sufficiently drying them out), but none of the seeds I have planted from sealed packages of dried chiles have germinated yet.

I'm suspecting these pods have either been irradiated as part of the food handling process, or else the anoxic conditions of the sealed package has caused these seeds to become no longer viable?
 
My Jamaican Yellows were the fastest at 3 weeks. My supers are just now poking out the first true leaves at over a month. I don't worry about it...they come when they come. I have starter trays on the kitchen counter...and that's it...no special light or heat.
 
Ok... I feel much better about things now. I was just anticipating true leaves and thicker stems to protect against them getting too leggy again. I think the extra light and heat of the light box, and more frequent (daily) waterings are protecting against that. Thanks.
 
Great advice LunchBox. I actually learned that recently from one of the videos I watched on this forum. I think that will probably help.

I was able to pick up a few awesome variety seeds while I was recently visiting my brother down in Central Tejas (Killeen).

Any specific recommendations on going from sproutling -> true leaves? Or should I just be patient, and keep doing what I'm doing: light box, plenty of heat, watering daily.
 
I'd say...and someone may correct me here...don't water them daily. They need a chance to breathe. I'm not an expert...pretty new to growing myself...but I water every week to 10 days.
 
I'm watering based upon my inadequate growing system.

First of all, I think I watered way too infrequently with my last batch. I let the soil get very dried out, because I was under the impression that chiles grow best under very dry conditions. I've been saturating the soil this time around, and they seem to be doing better.

Second of all, I only have a 100 watt incadescent light bulb in their light box right now, and I think I am overheating them and dehydrating them, which is why I think I may be overwatering trying to compensate.

This weekend I am looking to go out and get some flurescent fixtures (perhaps less heat and a better spectrum). I think this will help?
 
clf means flourescent?

my light box is about 18" by 3' maybe. It houses a 72 tray seed starting kit with room to spare, lined with aluminum foil on all sides and top.

how many hours a day of light? I have a botany friend that told me plants respire in darkness and fix nitrogen in light, so I should only give them so many hours a day of light (she is also crazy, so I'm not sure what to believe).

Thank God we don't have wall mart in Chicago, but I can surely find a similar light fixture at one of the local hardware shops.
 
Yes CFL stands for Compact Flourescent lights. The floros that fit in a standard light socket instead of the tube fixtures. I use a 16 on 8 off light cycle it seems to work good for my plants. Good luck with your grow! Oh and i am also growing Jals and habs and bhuts. They all had true leaves within about 10 days i think.
 
yeah, I would say your big problem is the light you have now, if you want you get can a fluorescent tube, but really if you just get a little vanity shop light (ask at Home Depot or Lowes for them, I couldn't find them on my own, but have one above every mirror in the bathrooms at my house, it's those kinds of lights) or you can do what I did and just get CFL lights with the plug in sockets and, well plugs.. but if you are unsure just go to one of the stores and tell them what you want to do and just make sure they don't direct you to try to get the grow light tubes and stuff, because you don't need those.. the 6,500k CFL lights are perfect.. and 2-3 of those about 4" from your seedlings are you will have plenty of light.

and once you do change the lights, you do want to let them dry out, but I wouldn't say completely like you were before, I just do it where if I see most of them dry on the top, I know they are still damp under the surface, so I wait until the next morning or so (depending on when I check it) and then soak them again, just have to play around with it really and see what works, you seem to be doing good now as far as that goes, just need to change the bulbs out, oh and I also noticed that when a majority of the seedlings come up, I was tending to underwater the cells that didn't have any seedlings up yet.. so just make sure you keep those cells moist/damp

and I don't know if you knew the temps they were at, but just grab a $0.72 thermostat real quick while your at the store just to stick in there to keep an eye on the temps.

Dulac said:
It depends on the variety and the conditions you have set up. Superhots and chocolate habaneros tend to take longer than others to grow their true leaves.
Click to expand...
yeah I have all superhots growing now which is why I was really surprised that they started to come so fast.. but with that said, the true leaves are taking their sweet time to actually grow out lol, which is fine with me
 
Also, remember that if you start 20 seeds, 15 might germinate...12 survive the transplant...2 more die a week or two later...half of those get first leaves, and the others wilt away...and out of the 5 plants that make it...you're still going to lose one or two before they fruit.

Obviously these aren't hard and fast numbers...just a generalization. I start 20 seeds for every 3 mature, fruiting plants that I want. If more survive...BONUS. But, I'm also a casual grower...I offer the plants a paper towel in a ziploc baggie to germinate, and put them in multi-cell starter trays with a good starter mix. Then I leave them alone, except to water them every week or two. I know there are ways I could ramp up my success, but right now I've got about 30 that could go in the ground (red savina, caribbean red, naga morich, congo black, fatalii, 7 pot, morouga scorpion, "super" t-scorp, and choco-hab) that were started over the winter. I have another 200 or so in trays, and a third of those are starting to bring out their first leaves...they were started 4-6 weeks ago.

PS: I have one 7-pot that has about 10 true leaves...started at the same time as the other 7-pot's...and as of this morning, only 3 of the surviving 9 are just now starting to put out their first leaves...so I have one that looks like I started it a month or two earlier...even though I didn't. Point being...you just gotta sit back and wait on them to do their own thing, in their sweet time.
 
Lunchbox, that is an awful high failure rate. You must be using a peat based soil. I use a bark based soil, germinate directly into the mix (screened to smaller particle for seed) and I had a 97% germination rate, and no transplant losses this year. People need to know how bad peat based mixes really are. Check my other posts on how to build this soil more cheaply then commercial peat mixes. This mix is much easier for beginners since it is almost impossible to overwater due to superior aeration and drainage.
 
I've seen several recommnendations to start "encouraging" them a little bit with some 1/4 strength fertilizer. And what point should that start being applied?
 
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