It's probably snobbery on my part, but I would kinda prefer if the superhots didn't go mainstream. Sort of like a band you really like. I want the growers to be successful, but I also like how it's sort of my (our) little thing.
-
Do you need help identifying a 🌶?
Is your plant suffering from an unknown issue? 🤧
Then ask in Identification and Diagnosis.
When will Super Hots go Mainstream?
- Thread starter Capsicumexanthematicus
- Start date
I have a long way to go, but I also see value and reward from growing your own. People won't appreciate that if they can get a lower quality not as hot cardboard tasting similarity - when they don't know what they're missing. I am all for it to a point, I would like to see more options, but I would like to grow my own knowing where they come from and having something to look forward to and remember.
Regardless, it will not happen due to liability. When you have to sign wavers at some restaurants for this reason - why would they let you have an easier way to them? people are out to sue people. When I have kids, I will ask them to eat a habanero at about 12-13 years old so they know what they are dealing with and they don't go off and steal my superhot crops - cause that would be bad for me and them - I would probably be forced to stop growing them if they went and did that - and anybody with an education in chilli would know not to be arrogant.
It can't happen, as much as it would have it's advantages (and disadvantages) - even if there were a market I do not see the governments letting it happen, they protect people from themselves, we don't want to reach a point of registering every plant we grow, because there would be a registration fee and charges if you don't register... and how pathetic would that be?
I'll second that one.....
To me Mainstream = a lot of guys trying to ride the gravey train either by selling stuff that isn't what it is supposed to be or selling seeds/plants/pods for very high prices as they laugh all the way to the bank.
This FOODIES(sp?) trend only adds to the problem.
Idiots are eating up everything they read from these guys blogs as if it is the only stuff worth eating.
The wierder the ingrediants are the better it must be.
If some idiot posts something on their blog is the best,even if it's dog crap on a stick, it's the thing to eat/grow or whatever according to their followers.
The name and recomendations of the person who is laughing at the idiots reading their crap only matters to the idiots reading the crap they get off some blog somewhere.
Call any red podded hot pepper at some high end resturaunt or some crap hole place in bum suck egypt a Bhut and it's cool-They ate a Bhut as far as the bloggers are concerned.
If it had eye of newt and tiger balls in the dish it's even better...
To me mainstrem depends mostly on P.R.
We as Chile addicts know about what we grow.
Mainstream isn't made up of Chile heads but the total market of people who grow or eat chiles.
I can see a temparary surge in nurseries,seed venders etc. selling their goods to the people who want to see what is up with super hots or just want to tourture others by getting them to eat a bhut or whatever super hot.
Some just want to say they grew Bhuts,wether they ate them or not.
Just trying to be more cool than their buddies.
Most,or a lot of us knew years ago what is hot and what is not by growing the real thing as far as super hots go.
Butch has been spreading the heat for several years.
Not suprising to him , I'm sure , about the heat of the Scorpions he grows.
The nursery down the street won't sell Bhuts or Naga Morich because to make a profit they would have to sell it for $10.00 a start/plant.They have refuse to sell them for 3 or so years so far.
They said they will try a tray of each to see if the demand is there this year-Maybe.
They will be selling Red Savina for the $2.49 price per plant though again this year.
This FOODIES(sp?) trend only adds to the problem.
Idiots are eating up everything they read from these guys blogs as if it is the only stuff worth eating.
The wierder the ingrediants are the better it must be.
If some idiot posts something on their blog is the best,even if it's dog crap on a stick, it's the thing to eat/grow or whatever according to their followers.
The name and recomendations of the person who is laughing at the idiots reading their crap only matters to the idiots reading the crap they get off some blog somewhere.
Call any red podded hot pepper at some high end resturaunt or some crap hole place in bum suck egypt a Bhut and it's cool-They ate a Bhut as far as the bloggers are concerned.
If it had eye of newt and tiger balls in the dish it's even better...
To me mainstrem depends mostly on P.R.
We as Chile addicts know about what we grow.
Mainstream isn't made up of Chile heads but the total market of people who grow or eat chiles.
I can see a temparary surge in nurseries,seed venders etc. selling their goods to the people who want to see what is up with super hots or just want to tourture others by getting them to eat a bhut or whatever super hot.
Some just want to say they grew Bhuts,wether they ate them or not.
Just trying to be more cool than their buddies.
Most,or a lot of us knew years ago what is hot and what is not by growing the real thing as far as super hots go.
Butch has been spreading the heat for several years.
Not suprising to him , I'm sure , about the heat of the Scorpions he grows.
The nursery down the street won't sell Bhuts or Naga Morich because to make a profit they would have to sell it for $10.00 a start/plant.They have refuse to sell them for 3 or so years so far.
They said they will try a tray of each to see if the demand is there this year-Maybe.
They will be selling Red Savina for the $2.49 price per plant though again this year.
"If it had eye of newt and tiger balls in the dish [it'd be] even better..."
This is my new standard comment in the Drunken Chef thread. Well done!
This is my new standard comment in the Drunken Chef thread. Well done!
I guess I should have put a COMMA in there...
Smokemaster, I see your point in many ways. (By the way, am I a "foodie blogger", too? 
) But, personally, I'd rather see a bunch of people interested in food and cooking than what Paris Hilton wears/does/says. Food is part of a healthy culture. I'd rather see people eat chiles than Twinkies.
I don't really care too much about "food fads". I eat what I like and if stuff comes out I've never seen and I like it, I stick with it. I think a lot of "foodie" ideas that have come out in the past few years are very good ideas. Local agriculture is one. Excellent idea. I can get great locally-grown food all Summer. Grass-fed beef. Another great idea. I like to cook and I enjoy good food. You might say I'm a "foodie", but I'm more of a Sandinista of the food world. Meaning I'm not a foodie of the sort that was trolling all the trendy restaurants along West Sunset in L.A. back in the day. That's why I call myself Guerilla Chef. If all the trendy chefs are the Czars of the foodie world, then I guess I'm Leon Trotsky...tovarich!
) But, personally, I'd rather see a bunch of people interested in food and cooking than what Paris Hilton wears/does/says. Food is part of a healthy culture. I'd rather see people eat chiles than Twinkies. I don't really care too much about "food fads". I eat what I like and if stuff comes out I've never seen and I like it, I stick with it. I think a lot of "foodie" ideas that have come out in the past few years are very good ideas. Local agriculture is one. Excellent idea. I can get great locally-grown food all Summer. Grass-fed beef. Another great idea. I like to cook and I enjoy good food. You might say I'm a "foodie", but I'm more of a Sandinista of the food world.
Meaning I'm not a foodie of the sort that was trolling all the trendy restaurants along West Sunset in L.A. back in the day. That's why I call myself Guerilla Chef. If all the trendy chefs are the Czars of the foodie world, then I guess I'm Leon Trotsky...tovarich! 
I dunno, these showed up at one of the local supermarkets:
Now I can try them for the first time, at least the dried ones rather than waiting 4 months for my pods to come on.
I ground 4 into powder for taste testing.
I really don't expect the fresh or dried to sell much, though. I could see there being some XXX-Hot chili mixes, and the like.
Now I can try them for the first time, at least the dried ones rather than waiting 4 months for my pods to come on.
I ground 4 into powder for taste testing.
I really don't expect the fresh or dried to sell much, though. I could see there being some XXX-Hot chili mixes, and the like.
Part of my point was that Foodie has become equal to blogging about paris hiltons lattest stupidity.
Look at most of the popular cooking shows these days.
They pay more attention to the presentation and what kind of wierd stuff in the dish than taste or portion size for that matter.
If I like something I don't care if it's stacked up to look like the Eifle tower...
A rack of smoked ribs,cold smoked swimming in a finnishing sauce on a plate is dam sexy to me...
Then there are Burnt ends....oops , I just came.
Country style pork(boneless) ribs.
All rubbed down ready to blend in the fridge for 2 days.
Dead chicken ready to get a life.
Freezing something in liquid nitrogen so fumes come out my mouth doesn't float my boat or make it taste good or better to me.
I think some of these guys sit up all night thinking of more wierd or nasty stuff to post about just to see how many of their sheep will eat it.
GOOD FOOD is good food.
I'm not talking about ALL food bloggers.
Just the idiots that seem to be mainstream these days.
Going to Thailand to eat a Blue Crab ,stir fried in some dump that looks like Salmanilla central.
Try Louisiana,or go to a local Florida(conk,Shellfish ,crab and shrimp) seafood joint,Tastes so good you'll almost break your mouth...
Nothing wrong with having a passion for food,but it seems being cool is more important than the food to a lot of people these days.
A lot of times just the prep is more important than anything in the dish.
As a side note,I've worked a few large prep Kitchens and resturaunts in my younger days.
I always liked to cook.
Only problem is,now I can only cook for 100 or more people.
Didn't have to cook only for a couple people most of the time before.
I think in cups and Lbs not Tbsp or less.
Heck,you live in Flag.,can't be that out of touch with reality.
Are Bozo's ( a good friend owned it years ago)and Too Hot For New York(good eats) still in Biz.?
Haven't been to Flag in 20yrs.
How about Jean and Truks(sp?-stereo shop)?
Look at most of the popular cooking shows these days.
They pay more attention to the presentation and what kind of wierd stuff in the dish than taste or portion size for that matter.
If I like something I don't care if it's stacked up to look like the Eifle tower...
A rack of smoked ribs,cold smoked swimming in a finnishing sauce on a plate is dam sexy to me...
Then there are Burnt ends....oops , I just came.
Country style pork(boneless) ribs.
All rubbed down ready to blend in the fridge for 2 days.
Dead chicken ready to get a life.
Freezing something in liquid nitrogen so fumes come out my mouth doesn't float my boat or make it taste good or better to me.
I think some of these guys sit up all night thinking of more wierd or nasty stuff to post about just to see how many of their sheep will eat it.
GOOD FOOD is good food.
I'm not talking about ALL food bloggers.
Just the idiots that seem to be mainstream these days.
Going to Thailand to eat a Blue Crab ,stir fried in some dump that looks like Salmanilla central.
Try Louisiana,or go to a local Florida(conk,Shellfish ,crab and shrimp) seafood joint,Tastes so good you'll almost break your mouth...
Nothing wrong with having a passion for food,but it seems being cool is more important than the food to a lot of people these days.
A lot of times just the prep is more important than anything in the dish.
As a side note,I've worked a few large prep Kitchens and resturaunts in my younger days.
I always liked to cook.
Only problem is,now I can only cook for 100 or more people.
Didn't have to cook only for a couple people most of the time before.
I think in cups and Lbs not Tbsp or less.
Heck,you live in Flag.,can't be that out of touch with reality.
Are Bozo's ( a good friend owned it years ago)and Too Hot For New York(good eats) still in Biz.?
Haven't been to Flag in 20yrs.
How about Jean and Truks(sp?-stereo shop)?
Variety is the spice of life, as they say. As with all things, there will be imposters, and there will be visionaries. To assume that those things are not both present is a bit myopic.
To assume that they are always mutually exclusive, is to say that accidents don't sometimes produce brilliance.
Good food IS good, whether it's a pancake with butter and syrup, or a tomato water-infused amuse bouche to start a tasting menu. A plain ol' backyard BBQ rib, or a wild boar rib with fennel and honey BBQ sauce. If it's good, it's good. High end, low end, east end, west end.
I don't give a damn as long as it makes sense and tastes great. I've had it all, and it can all be good if the end goal is to produce something tasty and enjoyable.
To assume that they are always mutually exclusive, is to say that accidents don't sometimes produce brilliance.
Good food IS good, whether it's a pancake with butter and syrup, or a tomato water-infused amuse bouche to start a tasting menu. A plain ol' backyard BBQ rib, or a wild boar rib with fennel and honey BBQ sauce. If it's good, it's good. High end, low end, east end, west end.
I don't give a damn as long as it makes sense and tastes great. I've had it all, and it can all be good if the end goal is to produce something tasty and enjoyable.
I agree,as I posted above.
It's just that with the internet there is too much crap going on that is distorting the original purpose of having a food blog,chile blog or whatever.
Like with growing Chiles.
I see a lot of guys who posted a couple years ago as "new to pepper growing" who we gave seeds to that are now considered as experts and are raping people at high prices for seeds from stuff they were given for free or postage.
Re naming stuff etc. to get high prices for seeds they should be spreading in the same way they got them in the first place.
Sure,sell plants or sauces from what you grow.
You had to grow the pods.
But selling seeds at $1.00 or more each with shipping sucks.
Sell them for the same as you would sell Jalapenos at,you got them out of the kindness of some chileheads heart to spread the heat in the first place.
I know the guys out riding the gravey train will eventually dissapear when trends change but the people that are really into either cooking/food or chile blogs get ignored because they stayed true to their values and didn't get into the "WHATS IN" crap.
I'm hijacking this thread so I'll cool it for now...
I just have a great respect for a lot of great cooks that I know and a lot of chile growers too that I know.
It's just that with the internet there is too much crap going on that is distorting the original purpose of having a food blog,chile blog or whatever.
Like with growing Chiles.
I see a lot of guys who posted a couple years ago as "new to pepper growing" who we gave seeds to that are now considered as experts and are raping people at high prices for seeds from stuff they were given for free or postage.
Re naming stuff etc. to get high prices for seeds they should be spreading in the same way they got them in the first place.
Sure,sell plants or sauces from what you grow.
You had to grow the pods.
But selling seeds at $1.00 or more each with shipping sucks.
Sell them for the same as you would sell Jalapenos at,you got them out of the kindness of some chileheads heart to spread the heat in the first place.
I know the guys out riding the gravey train will eventually dissapear when trends change but the people that are really into either cooking/food or chile blogs get ignored because they stayed true to their values and didn't get into the "WHATS IN" crap.
I'm hijacking this thread so I'll cool it for now...
I just have a great respect for a lot of great cooks that I know and a lot of chile growers too that I know.
If Melissa's has already packaged Bhut Jolokia, they're already mainstream. Hmmm....I can now go insist my local Safeway bring some in so they're always handy. I went over to Cost Plus World Market today and all the Melinda's Naga Jolokia was sold out. They had just restocked last week. One of the clerks said people are going nuts for it.
Smokemaster, none of those places are still here. We've been here since 1999 and they weren't here when we arrived. We do have a great restaurant here that will respond when you tell them to make it HOT. The waiters will almost be wearing gas masks.
I'm not into people profiteering off food and charging off-the-charts prices for stuff that was only a buck-o-five before the trendy "discovered" it. I just waxed poetic on my blog about pinto beans I made in a crock pot and how cost-effective it is to make them. With chiles, of course. Is there a such thing as beans without chiles??? I think good, healthy food should be available to people at reasonable prices. The problem with a lot of food trends is that they tend to, as you rightly pointed out Smokemaster, put too many "bells and whistles" on the gig. Do I want fresh-caught salmon flown in to me overnight? No, I don't. Do I need ranch-raised wild game? Not so long as I've got a shotgun and my longbow. I was living in Los Angeles when the whole "designer pizza" thing hit the streets. Suddenly, everyone was doing it. You couldn't swing a bottle of crushed red pepper without hitting a smoked duck pizza that cost a day's pay for a working man. The real authentic pizzas almost disappeared. And let me say this. Brie cheese on a pizza flat sucks. This is one reason I got heavily into Middle Eastern food, besides my own ethnic heritage. You went into a falafel joint, you're going to get the real thing. You're not going to get some falafel stuffed with Brie cheese and wrapped in a gluten-free pesto flatbread. The guys I got falafels and shwarma from in L.A. were not there to get rich. They were there to sell falafel and shwarma like they did in Iraq and Jordan. Same with the Armenian places. You could run over there and get lamajun (basically Armenian pizza) and it was never going to get "trendy". No one would buy it if suddenly it wasn't the same and the price suddenly tripled.
Smokemaster, none of those places are still here. We've been here since 1999 and they weren't here when we arrived. We do have a great restaurant here that will respond when you tell them to make it HOT. The waiters will almost be wearing gas masks.
I'm not into people profiteering off food and charging off-the-charts prices for stuff that was only a buck-o-five before the trendy "discovered" it. I just waxed poetic on my blog about pinto beans I made in a crock pot and how cost-effective it is to make them. With chiles, of course. Is there a such thing as beans without chiles??? I think good, healthy food should be available to people at reasonable prices. The problem with a lot of food trends is that they tend to, as you rightly pointed out Smokemaster, put too many "bells and whistles" on the gig. Do I want fresh-caught salmon flown in to me overnight? No, I don't. Do I need ranch-raised wild game? Not so long as I've got a shotgun and my longbow. I was living in Los Angeles when the whole "designer pizza" thing hit the streets. Suddenly, everyone was doing it. You couldn't swing a bottle of crushed red pepper without hitting a smoked duck pizza that cost a day's pay for a working man. The real authentic pizzas almost disappeared. And let me say this. Brie cheese on a pizza flat sucks. This is one reason I got heavily into Middle Eastern food, besides my own ethnic heritage. You went into a falafel joint, you're going to get the real thing. You're not going to get some falafel stuffed with Brie cheese and wrapped in a gluten-free pesto flatbread. The guys I got falafels and shwarma from in L.A. were not there to get rich. They were there to sell falafel and shwarma like they did in Iraq and Jordan. Same with the Armenian places. You could run over there and get lamajun (basically Armenian pizza) and it was never going to get "trendy". No one would buy it if suddenly it wasn't the same and the price suddenly tripled.
Why would they have to sell them for $10 per plant? They're not any harder or more costly to germinate than any other Chinense. That doesn't make any sense. Even if the demand were low and they only sold a small quantity relative to other varieties, it wouldn't really cost any more to produce those seedlings than other seedlings.
A local nursery here had them this year and they sold out VERY quickly, and I'm hardly in the most cultured part of the country (that's a major understatement). There are a ton of people who would like to grow them, just out of curiosity or to say they have them/have tried them. I had a bunch of extra seedlings this year and I had no trouble at all finding homes for them. I've given superhot seedlings to about 10 people and that's just people I know, not gardeners perusing a nursery for plants. I can buy a 4-pack of orange habanero seedlings at a local nursery for under $2, so saying that they would have to sell bhut jolokia seedlings for $10 each is absurd. It sounds like the nursery down the street is out of touch with reality.
Friday is the day to go
Nice sig, my favorite Led Zeppelin song
The waivers at a lot of these places is just for marketing, no matter what they tell you.
Put two restaurants side by side, offer the same menu, cooked the same, and have one make you sign a release before you get to eat it, and the customers will flock to it.
"Dude, I had to sign a waiver before they will let me eat it, it is so hot!" will get them every time.
The nursery buys their plants from suppliers at whatever price the suppliers charge.
The nursery needs a percentage of markup to keep their doors open...
Green Arrow doesn't grow any of what they sell.
They also have to cover their costs for stuff that doesn't make it out their doors for whatever reason.
Most of their chile starts are $1.49 each.
They aren't setting the initial price per plant,the grower is.
They could probably sell them for $10.00 each but they decided to pass on buying them from their growers at such a high price.
Make sense now?
The nursery needs a percentage of markup to keep their doors open...
Green Arrow doesn't grow any of what they sell.
They also have to cover their costs for stuff that doesn't make it out their doors for whatever reason.
Most of their chile starts are $1.49 each.
They aren't setting the initial price per plant,the grower is.
They could probably sell them for $10.00 each but they decided to pass on buying them from their growers at such a high price.
Make sense now?
Interesting. Definitely the growers trying to cash in. Hell, even Cross Country does it with the 'superhots'. Although at an extra $.75 or $1 or whatever, it's more palatable.
Eephus, I think the plant prices are just supply and demand.
In the USA hot spicy foods are now mainstream. 40 years ago there were very few Mexican restaurants outside the southwest. Then came the success of the chain Chi-Chi's, where many of us first tasted jalapenos on nachos, and margaritas.
Asian foods were only in ethnic neighborhoods and in big cities. Today there are two take-out shops in my little town of 2,000 people.
Buffalo wings were only a local curiosity in Buffalo, NY. Now there are national chains themed on hot wings.
My point is that diversity has brought awareness and built demand for hot peppers.
This is somewhat similar to what has happened in the beer industry. In the same 40 years, the US has gone from a few dozen local microbreweries to thousands making every variation on beer and ale you can imagine. We finally caught up with Europe. But, have all these micros put Miller, Bud, and Coors out of business? No, and thankfully the big boys have not crushed this competition.
So, as you go up the Scoville scale the market size for hot chilis goes down. Mainstream, yes from the point of availability. Replacing jalapenos with Nagas in the American diet? Not gonna happen.
I say, let's hoist a hop-monster IPA and dig into a plate of habanero poppers as we proclaim en Francais "Vive la difference!"
In the USA hot spicy foods are now mainstream. 40 years ago there were very few Mexican restaurants outside the southwest. Then came the success of the chain Chi-Chi's, where many of us first tasted jalapenos on nachos, and margaritas.
Asian foods were only in ethnic neighborhoods and in big cities. Today there are two take-out shops in my little town of 2,000 people.
Buffalo wings were only a local curiosity in Buffalo, NY. Now there are national chains themed on hot wings.
My point is that diversity has brought awareness and built demand for hot peppers.
This is somewhat similar to what has happened in the beer industry. In the same 40 years, the US has gone from a few dozen local microbreweries to thousands making every variation on beer and ale you can imagine. We finally caught up with Europe. But, have all these micros put Miller, Bud, and Coors out of business? No, and thankfully the big boys have not crushed this competition.
So, as you go up the Scoville scale the market size for hot chilis goes down. Mainstream, yes from the point of availability. Replacing jalapenos with Nagas in the American diet? Not gonna happen.
I say, let's hoist a hop-monster IPA and dig into a plate of habanero poppers as we proclaim en Francais "Vive la difference!"
You are correct Mr. Bigglesworth. I can remember when people thought Taco Bell was a "real" Mexican restaurant---and that the sauce they had was hot. And this was in Southern California, albeit Simi Valley which was pretty Leave It To Beaver back then. I can also remember in Simi when Chinese food meant semi-Cantonese style---bland. Last time I was in Simi in 1999, that Taco Bell (it was one of the original style ones that looked like a Mission building) was a REAL taqueria and you could get cabrito tacos in there and horchata. It truly was ironic.
About the waivers and liability, here in Arizona it isn't such an issue. You can get raw unpasteurized milk here for drinking. This state doesn't really care what you eat.
About the waivers and liability, here in Arizona it isn't such an issue. You can get raw unpasteurized milk here for drinking. This state doesn't really care what you eat.
Well, I suppose that makes a little more sense from the Nursery's perspective, but I don't understand why the suppliers would charge such outrageous prices for bhut jolokia seedlings. They're not much if any harder or more costly to start than habaneros. I guess the supplier must have their head stuck up their bhut or something.
