nutrients Which nutrients / fertilizer / compost do you use?

pepper_rancher said:
Wait... can you explain that one?
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  Sure I can. For one my soil is loaded with compost and millions of different beneficial bacteria. Those bacteria are constantly breaking down organic material so my plants can take them up. Most hydro growers I know do not add beneficial bacteria to their res as much as they should. So they are simply relying on the man made synthetics floating around in the water to feed their plants. But they are missing the natural soil food web that really only soil can provide. Can you mimic it? Sure, with bacteria from a bottle like orca or great white. But its not the same as the natural enzymes and fungi that are born in a normal environment and are not created in a lab and stuck into a bottle to sit for months at a time on a warehouse shelf. Not to mention that hydro can have drastic pH swings that make some nutrients un available to the plants. I mean I am sorry but most hydro growers who are not growing weed do not have the time to monitor and adjust things as they should. It's a hobby for most not a job, growing peppers does not pay my bills.
 
ColdSmoke said:
 
putting a fish in my blender is where I draw the line...
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I bought a food processor on craigslist for $15 for this task.  And not just this task, but also for making seaweed and rabbit poo smoothies...
 
SvtCobra said:
Sure I can. For one my soil is loaded with compost and millions of different beneficial bacteria. Those bacteria are constantly breaking down organic material so my plants can take them up. Most hydro growers I know do not add beneficial bacteria to their res as much as they should. So they are simply relying on the man made synthetics floating around in the water to feed their plants. But they are missing the natural soil food web that really only soil can provide. Can you mimic it? Sure, with bacteria from a bottle like orca or great white. But its not the same as the natural enzymes and fungi that are born in a normal environment and are not created in a lab and stuck into a bottle to sit for months at a time on a warehouse shelf. Not to mention that hydro can have drastic pH swings that make some nutrients un available to the plants. I mean I am sorry but most hydro growers who are not growing weed do not have the time to monitor and adjust things as they should. It's a hobby for most not a job, growing peppers does not pay my bills.
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so um.

what ever.
 
juanitos said:
i was going to type out a long explanation about recirculating systems but deleted it and moved on lol
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  I am not saying that recirculating systems don't work. I understand how they work. Simply put there are just differences of opinion on hydro vs soil. People get way to defense on here if you disagree with something. To each their own. In my opinion if nature intended peppers to be grown in water instead of soil it would have done so on it's own. To me its unnatural and does not replicate the normal soil based food web. But like I said to each their own. There is no dis respect meant!
 
SvtCobra said:
I am not saying that recirculating systems don't work. I understand how they work. Simply put there are just differences of opinion on hydro vs soil. People get way to defense on here if you disagree with something. To each their own. In my opinion if nature intended peppers to be grown in water instead of soil it would have done so on it's own. To me its unnatural and does not replicate the normal soil based food web. But like I said to each their own. There is no dis respect meant!
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if you like organic gardening thats fine. naturalistism? fine, what ever. but dont try and support what is a philosophical choice with bullshit or bad logic and not expect someone to call it out.


you cannot make statements like "retains and provides more nutrients" because its absurd. with hydro methods you can grow a 30 foot tall tomato plant inside an 8" rock wool slab... do you think you can do that with soil? you can top dress rows with a CRF fertilizer that will feed like 6 months at like a few lbs per 100 feet.

nature does not do alot of things, but that does not mean the "natural" way is best. wtf does best even mean? best with respect to what? certainly not yields/unit of land...

and fwiw, there is almost nothing that the soil microflora can provide that "chemical" or synthetic fertilizers cannot.

there is literally no such thing as natural agriculture. the two definitions are mutually exclusive.

natural selection does not yield 30lb cabbages, or like 12 brix peaches, or 1lb tomatos.
 
queequeg152 said:
if you like organic gardening thats fine. naturalistism? fine, what ever. but dont try and support what is a philosophical choice with bullshit or bad logic and not expect someone to call it out.


you cannot make statements like "retains and provides more nutrients" because its absurd. with hydro methods you can grow a 30 foot tall tomato plant inside an 8" rock wool slab... do you think you can do that with soil? you can top dress rows with a CRF fertilizer that will feed like 6 months at like a few lbs per 100 feet.

nature does not do alot of things, but that does not mean the "natural" way is best. wtf does best even mean? best with respect to what? certainly not yields/unit of land...

and fwiw, there is almost nothing that the soil microflora can provide that "chemical" or synthetic fertilizers cannot.

there is literally no such thing as natural agriculture. the two definitions are mutually exclusive.

natural selection does not yield 30lb cabbages, or like 12 brix peaches, or 1lb tomatos.
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  All I have to say is your going through, as you said 3 bottles a month to grow your shit. Why do you think that is? Why do you think my bottles last me as long as they do? I am not underfeeding my plants. And then finally I am not a fu#$ing naturalist. I am using synthetics myself. I mean if soil does not hold nutrients better than why is it that my plants are large and healthy on 10ml a month worth of ferts and you need hundreds of ml's a month to feed your plants.
 
SvtCobra said:
All I have to say is your going through, as you said 3 bottles a month to grow your shit. Why do you think that is? Why do you think my bottles last me as long as they do? I am not underfeeding my plants. And then finally I am not a fu#$ing naturalist. I am using synthetics myself. I mean if soil does not hold nutrients better than why is it that my plants are large and healthy on 10ml a month worth of ferts and you need hundreds of ml's a month to feed your plants.
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no i dont use bottled fertilizers. like i said i think they are at the very best over priced, and at the very worst a scammy weed money fueled industry peddling over priced shit.

i use fertilizer salts i buy from folks who break down 25 or 50 lb bags, and resell, shit like calcium nitrate or MKP. yes i pay a premium... especially considering shipping, but this premium price for low quantites of these salts is still an order(or two) of magnitude lower than the price of bottled fertilizers.

soils do not "hold" nutrients. this is what you are missing here. soils ARE nutrients. your soil is what is feeding your plants. this is obivious to most, but im not sure if you are understanding that or if you think your soil microflora is somehow ... in jesus like fasion, turning your 10 ml of fert solution into a bounty of food for your plants. its not.

yes soil particles can attract and hold nutrients and all sorts of other shit via ionic interactions, but this is not the means through which plants get their nutrients.

for me? i dont use organic material i use a soilless media that meerly holds fertilizers and provides something for the roots to hold onto, whilst providing maximum amoutns of aeration and pore space for healthy growth. this is the most common, and largest scale example of hydroponics.

a new 30 gallon batch requires something like 100 grams of combined ferts dissolved into that 30 gallons and nothing more. 100 grams every 2 weeks or so at this stage of growth. later on when plants mature, ( i have 50 atm), this will turn into like 30 gallons every 2 days. its literally no different to what you are doing. im just providing ALL of the nutrients via irrigation water, not by adding organic material to the growth medium.

again. its exactly the same thing, just doing it differently, and better or more efficiently from a land use /yield standpoint.
 
From my experience synthetic fertilizers are much better for beginners.  Organics are the most fun and ethically correct (for me), but the fact of the matter is, they can be extremely expensive, and the art of amending soil using organic meals, microbiotic innoculum, base substrates, aerators, mineral dusts/sands, etc.. is close to alchemy.  There are so many combinations of ingredients that make their nutrient content bio-available at all sorts of varying rates.  They are also required to be applied in bulk, which means prohibitive shipping costs for people who are between hobbyist and commercial level operations.  What I have come to learn is that it is best to use both synthetic and organic fertilizers.  For organics, which require bulk, I rely on composted materials that I can gather locally: horse and cow manure, coffee grounds, vegetable scraps, tree leaves, mulch, grass clippings, newspapers, etc.. and I compost them in my worm farms.  Occasionally I will dust my worm farms with some organic meals and azomite or glacial rock dust to slightly boost their organic content.  The worm castings are then used as my only consistent "organic supplement."   The fact of the matter is that miracle gro and 10-10-10 do the bulk of the work in my garden.  As I mentioned previously, with organic fertilizers, you do not know exactly how much of a given nutrient will be available at any given time.  Synthetics are theoretically more easy for beginners to apply precisely because it is more of an exact science than an alchemical art, as in super-soil building or compost tea brewing.
 
Now as I say, for me building a super soil or brewing compost tea and relying solely on organics to provide all of the nutrients required for a flourishing garden is the holy grail.  It is something I am always aspiring for, but for the scales I am growing on with the resources I have, it is a prohibitively expensive project.  The hard truth that I have learned is that synthetics are cheaper and give you immediate results by the very nature of their chemical properties (free ions.)  Now it is another matter which "brand" of synthetics is the most cost-effective.  Personally, because I grow in-ground (where calcium and magnesium are abundant), miracle gro all-purpose 24-8-17 is the most comprehensive and cheap nutrient I have found in my research.  This is another hard truth to swallow.  Miracle gro is produced by a chemical company that is simply able to provide those nutrients for the best prices.  If anyone knows of another company that produces the same formula for cheaper then let me know.  The closest I have seen is greenway biotech and they are still more expensive ..so its not even worth it for me to "try them out."
 
In summary, organics are the most ethically commendable option, but they certainly require the most expertise and patience to achieve "outstanding" results.  For beginners on a budget, I would recommend purchasing a complete synthetic fertilizer (dry powder of course [bottled nutrients are 99% water]).... and follow the directions on the package... first using 1/8 strength feedings for 3 week old seedlings and increasing the dilution little by little until you are feeding full strength when they are in their permanent positions in the full summer sun.   You will achieve results this way, because it is an exact lab driven scientifically verified, proven winner formula.  For those who are more intermediate and have a larger budget, I recommend playing around with composing a super soil and jazzing it up with the plethora of organic meals that will make you feel like a kid in a candy store... you need a little of this and that and before you know it you have a cart of $500 worth of amendments for your "alchemical recipe" that will give you the ultimate garden... when for $50 worth of miracle gro and $50 worth of 10-10-10 you would easily have enough of each nutrient your recipe would provide for 1/5 the cost.... and, furthermore, you KNOW exactly what your plants are getting and how fast, and you can see the results in the plants within hours.  I want to re-iterate that the best option in my opinion is to use organics that you can derive locally (and for free) and spend your precious money on a complete dry powder fertilizer program to give your plants the fuel they need to be "extraordinary."  
 
Also... do as I say and not as I do, because I just gave my brother $30 to get me 50lbs of cottonseed meal XD
 
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