health Why are my seedlings falling over?

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FinInGermany

Hi folks, wondering if someone might have an idea why a load of my seedlings seem to not be able to hold their heads up?
For info, all planted on January 31st, sprouted between February 4th and 8th (pretty quick, I reckon), humidity dome removed on 11th, and since then they have had a light about two inches above them for 12 hours daily, and a weak breeze from a fan for about 2 - 3 hours daily. Still sitting on the heating mat, so soil is at 28°C.
All looked fine until a couple of days ago, when they started dropping 🤔😬.
 

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FinInGermany said:
Hi folks, wondering if someone might have an idea why a load of my seedlings seem to not be able to hold their heads up?
For info, all planted on January 31st, sprouted between February 4th and 8th (pretty quick, I reckon), humidity dome removed on 11th, and since then they have had a light about two inches above them for 12 hours daily, and a weak breeze from a fan for about 2 - 3 hours daily. Still sitting on the heating mat, so soil is at 28°C.
All looked fine until a couple of days ago, when they started dropping 🤔😬.
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FinInGermany said:
Hi folks, wondering if someone might have an idea why a load of my seedlings seem to not be able to hold their heads up?
For info, all planted on January 31st, sprouted between February 4th and 8th (pretty quick, I reckon), humidity dome removed on 11th, and since then they have had a light about two inches above them for 12 hours daily, and a weak breeze from a fan for about 2 - 3 hours daily. Still sitting on the heating mat, so soil is at 28°C.
All looked fine until a couple of days ago, when they started dropping 🤔😬.
Click to expand...
This isn’t a question for Fin, but a question for others commenting, in the past I used to leave my seed flats a little low when I filled them up and once the sprouted add a little more ( not a crazy amount) to basically eat up some of the stalk the seedlings were developing. It seemed to strengthen them up, is this a no to do?
 
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JH4FSU said:
This isn’t a question for Fin, but a question for others commenting, in the past I used to leave my seed flats a little low when I filled them up and once the sprouted add a little more ( not a crazy amount) to basically eat up some of the stalk the seedlings were developing. It seemed to strengthen them up, is this a no to do?
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Never did that myself. Don't know if all plants can be covered like tomato's.
 
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JH4FSU said:
This isn’t a question for Fin, but a question for others commenting, in the past I used to leave my seed flats a little low when I filled them up and once the sprouted add a little more ( not a crazy amount) to basically eat up some of the stalk the seedlings were developing. It seemed to strengthen them up, is this a no to do?
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From everything I have read and heard, tomatoes are one of the few plants you can do this with, since they grow new roots out of the stems when you bury them. Peppers don't do this, and you run the risk of the stems rotting if you bury them.
 
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FinInGermany said:
From everything I have read and heard, tomatoes are one of the few plants you can do this with, since they grow new roots out of the stems when you bury them. Peppers don't do this, and you run the risk of the stems rotting if you bury them.
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Not as leggy as Fins, but once they initially break through, adding just a little, maybe 1/4 at most
 
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alkhall said:
Finn,

There are several webpages, and even some videos, that explain horticultural lighting; Photo-synthetically Photon Flux Density (PPFD), Photo-synthetically Active Radiation (PAR), Correlated Color Temperature (CCT), etc., and how they affect plant growth. I really cannot recommend one over another. If you search using the above terms, I am sure you will encounter more information than you need.
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Thanks again. Did just that and am already starting to have much more idea of what I need to be looking out for :thumbsup:
 
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Marturo said:
I went from Floursents to LED grow lights. Looked everywhere for how to use this new light source that could burn my seedlings up.
Going from Youtube video to another I saw growers using all types of costly light meters measuring light intensity of different lights.

I got lucky & found a video on how far & how much power to use for my seedlings. Fourteen inches above & power set to 40%.
As for all the: https://www.ledsupply.com/blog/breaking-down-the-important-led-grow-light-metrics/

Check this this video out on fixing leggy seedlings he has some good points.

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Excellent vid Marturo, cheers for that. Looks like it's a good thing I took Marc's advice and removed the mats after all. I really did have the feeling that in cooler soil, they wouldn't have quite as much energy to "reach for the skies" as the old Wild West bank robbers used to say :lol:.
 
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FinInGermany said:
Excellent vid Marturo, cheers for that. Looks like it's a good thing I took Marc's advice and removed the mats after all. I really did have the feeling that in cooler soil, they wouldn't have quite as much energy to "reach for the skies" as the old Wild West bank robbers used to say :lol:.
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Finn,

Please keep us updated on how removing the heat from under the cells affects the growth.

I personally have always kept my trays on the heat mat (set @ ~82°F) until I pot up the coir plugs into potting soil.

I honestly have never had leggy seedlings, but, I do have fairly intense lighting with the proper PAR that I keep close (less than six inches) to them.

With regard to burying the stems; I actually do that to some extent, both when potting and when planting out. However, using well-draining soil is key, and I let the topmost layer of soil (1 inch or so) dry out between watering, so there really is not a lot of moisture in the soil that is in contact with the stem. Not apply water directly on the stem probably helps as well.
 
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alkhall said:
Finn,

Please keep us updated on how removing the heat from under the cells affects the growth.
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Will do, bud. I'll leave most of the leggy seedlings where they are, and transfer a couple as a control into a heated tray right beside them, so they will be getting more or less exactly the same light. Be interesting to see how it pans out.
Can't say for sure, but I can imagine that leaving them on the mat wouldn't do any damage as long as the lighting is right. In fact, it could possibly even be beneficial, whereas in a weak light situation, the heat might just supply them with enough energy to grow out of control :think: . My head hurts - I reckon it's time for bed over in good old Germany 😁.
 
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So, been busy this morning juggling the contents of my seed trays around. The first pic isn't on the mat, second one is. It all still looks a bit adventurous under my cobbled together lighting system, but I should have a halfway decent grow light arriving from the big A while I'm at work today, so I'll get that set up either tonight or tomorrow and we'll take it from there.
 

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alkhall said:
Finn,

Please keep us updated on how removing the heat from under the cells affects the growth.

I personally have always kept my trays on the heat mat (set @ ~82°F) until I pot up the coir plugs into potting soil.

I honestly have never had leggy seedlings, but, I do have fairly intense lighting with the proper PAR that I keep close (less than six inches) to them.

With regard to burying the stems; I actually do that to some extent, both when potting and when planting out. However, using well-draining soil is key, and I let the topmost layer of soil (1 inch or so) dry out between watering, so there really is not a lot of moisture in the soil that is in contact with the stem. Not apply water directly on the stem probably helps as well.
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What PAR is your lighting?
 
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Black Compass said:
Then how does cloning work? The roots begin forming from the stem.
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Apologies for not being precise enough. Tomatoes grow aerial roots, sometimes referred to as adventitious roots, from the SIDE of the stem. When you want to clone a pepper plant, you'll see that the roots grow out of the end of the stem, like this one I did as an experiment last year ;).
 

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Black Compass said:
I bury my stems on all my plants, is this not roots coming from the side of the stem?

IMG_6693.jpg
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If you want to stir up drama in an online gardening forum, simply ask, “Can you plant peppers deeply like tomatoes?” Then make some popcorn, sit back and watch the sparks fly. 😀

gardensuggest.com

Can You Bury Pepper Plants Deep? [Unveiling the Secrets] - Garden Suggest

Absolutely! Burying pepper plants deep in the soil can be a smart strategy for enhancing their root development and overall growth. Pepper plants, those vibrant and versatile additions to gardens, have long intrigued both novice and seasoned gardeners. What if we told you there’s a secret...
gardensuggest.com
 
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Marturo said:
If you want to stir up drama in an online gardening forum, simply ask, “Can you plant peppers deeply like tomatoes?” Then make some popcorn, sit back and watch the sparks fly. 😀

gardensuggest.com

Can You Bury Pepper Plants Deep? [Unveiling the Secrets] - Garden Suggest

Absolutely! Burying pepper plants deep in the soil can be a smart strategy for enhancing their root development and overall growth. Pepper plants, those vibrant and versatile additions to gardens, have long intrigued both novice and seasoned gardeners. What if we told you there’s a secret...
gardensuggest.com
Click to expand...
no drama here though . Anyone know if magpies will eat peppers off the plant? Do I need a bird net?

:)
 
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FinInGermany said:
Hi folks, wondering if someone might have an idea why a load of my seedlings seem to not be able to hold their heads up?
For info, all planted on January 31st, sprouted between February 4th and 8th (pretty quick, I reckon), humidity dome removed on 11th, and since then they have had a light about two inches above them for 12 hours daily, and a weak breeze from a fan for about 2 - 3 hours daily. Still sitting on the heating mat, so soil is at 28°C.
All looked fine until a couple of days ago, when they started dropping 🤔😬.
Click to expand...
Boy, those seedlings are stretching for some light! They’re more than likely ‘top heavy’ and bending over fromfrom the excessive stem length. The fan breeze is probably contributing to the issue as well. The stems aren’t able to withstand the weight nor the air pressure from the fan. Humidity domes are the scourge of many growers not familiar with their intended usage. Anything living in a ‘bubble’ will be affected by the removal of it. The longer it’s grown like that will affect its performance (stunting). Dampening-off disease thrives in ‘domes’, too. How are they looking now?
 
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