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Why I think Chocolate Bhutlah SM needs a new name.

Agree, but I would be willing to bet good money this explains the volume seeds available at various online stores, ebay, etsy, and lots of other places.  You buy 100 for 7.49, sell ten for ten, turn 7.49 into 100.00
 
I think instead the "SM" mark is an added security, and you can avoid getting cheated by knowing that the two only sure channels right now are Steven and Puckerbutt.
Judy sold a Chocolate Bhutlah time ago but she was very clear by telling it's not the same as Steven's
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/50040-bhutlah-pepperlovercom/   (look at post #6)
 
Steven's one is a 3 way cross, you choose the channels where to buy them, you choose the percentage of getting fake seeds.
That's my opinion.
 
standbyandfire said:
I have learned my lesson in all this. Present and future crosses will just be lettered and or numbered. Stuff coming out of china are totally fake btw. Ppl will tag a name to anything to try and make a quick buck these days. :)
Steve glad to see you chime in.What people need to do ie RESPECT other people and what they are doing.Not try and change the name of something one has invented or created.Oh and for the record I haven't threatened anyone today.Money ah yes the money....
 
Mpicante, it is not going to happen. 
 
Example: https://www.crazyhotseeds.com/seeds/chocolate-bhutlah/
 
Before I say this, PLEASE do not further the bullshit by creating a Wikipedia war.  If someone continues to do this, please do edit it out but flame wars at Wikipedia hurt all of us who try to keep the place right and resourceful. 
 
This link shows a former version of the Wikipedia page for Carolina Reaper.  Note, someone edited it to say the Chocolate Bhutlah is the hottest pepper in the world and added a foot note which links to CrazyHotSeeds.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carolina_Reaper&diff=645239146&oldid=645238040

On the talk page, the talk page (at the bottom) we see that someone edited out the reference saying it was obvious spam for CrazyHotSeeds.com  Essentially, someone was trying to say Look, this pepper is hotter and you can buy the seeds for the hotter pepper here.  At the bottom of the Carolina Reaper talk page (where editors leave notes) the change was explained as spam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carolina_Reaper

At the risk of ruffling feathers, there is something weird going on here in the US.  I suspect it is the money thing.  When I lived in Germany, seed saving and trading of even new crosses and happy mistakes was what folk did.  When Carolina Reaper displaced the Butch T (I think that was the order) the Australian guy (forget his name) who had the Butch T get the Guinness title previously was like: OK then, i will try to grow them hotter and take the title back.  And he added Carolina Reaper products to his offering. No hostility, no grudge other than wanting to get back on top.  All the good aspects of competition and none of the negative.
 
StandbyandFire - Many thoughts.  First, call signs / letters n numbers wont do it.  They will just key on those instead of words.  In fact, they will do it in the reverse.  Here is the Wikipedia page for the Carolina Reaper.  Notice history is being rewritten with respects to the letters. Now its call sign is HP22BNH.  I have not thought to change that because I dont exactly have Ed Currie on my speed dial.  For all I know, he wanted the change and it means something about the original plant.  But I -suspect- it is a search engine tactic which I could explain privately.  I am obsessive compulsive and could figure out what is going on with the letters, but I have to stick to things that make money.
 
When I first started growing the thing I then called the Chocolate Bhutlah, I had no clue who you were.  I bought my seeds by that name from a UK or maybe Australian dealer.  I forget.  Grown them for a bit, shared their seeds by that name without ever having a clue.  Found out about you, watched your videos and you kind of became one of my folk heroes because you present yourself as working class.  No offense to Ed Currie when I say that I think he is a former banker.  Not a bad thing, but not the story that inspires dirt poor people like me.

So I went threw and changed any sales effort to read Brown / Chocolate Bhutlah and added an explination that these are NOT your line.  Then when you teamed up with Ed Currie, I changed it again to say not your line, not Puckerbutt's line.  I am sure I missed some and with all the revisions, they are surely disjoined.  If you would like to review the pages and tell me what you would like changed, please write me privately and I will give you the URLs.

Last thought, i do think there is a solution.  Back to the common man makes good / folk hero thing.  The problem with our world is that it takes money (a lot of it) to make money.  I am sure you know you can get a lawyer, get a trademark, sit on it until you can get your new line covered by the Plant Variety Protection Act.  All that is lawyers, money, and years.  I have an idea that would give the underdog a free alternative to protecting their cultivar.  Already making flow charts for how the program would work.  Probably be a wordpress plug in at first.  No advertising, no fees, just a registry.

The idea, a person lists a pepper n gets a number.  That person can then list all urls authorized to sell the seeds.  Any site that sells the authorized seeds puts a little statement on their page that it is certified by the service.  That has a link.  Click the link and a potential customer sees who the creator says can sell the seeds.  There is more, but you get the idea.

Not as good as all those lawyers, money, and plant variety protection act stuff; but a whole lot more than the nothing that the working man has today.  Would love to talk to you about it, maybe have you there to test and tell me what works and what doesnt.  Mainly because, with respect to Ed Currie, you dont seem like him.  I can't actually talk well to folk like that.  They have a different type of smarts than I do and I wind up feeling like an idiot. 

 
 
ebay sellers are using that same photo to sell "new worlds hottest" shame they just add a watermark and think is ok
 
Daedra - Have you seen the one where the pepper is on an iphone and has a green label on it?  Have seen three different internet sellers using that same photo from FBI pod review.  But the one I really like is here:

https://www.crazyhotseeds.com/seeds/chocolate-bhutlah/#/
 
He has what looks like original photos, including a pile of what he calls Chocolate Bhutlah.  Going to assume he did what I did, get 'chocolate bhutlah' seeds from overseas before the guy that started them there (assuming only one) started calling them brown.  Now some say chocolate, some say brown, when I sell them I say 'brown / chocolate' and included a long winded explination that they are not from StandbyandFire.  As long as a person is not being deceptive, I think all is fine.
 
oh wow he has original looking pics haven seen those on ebay yet wont be long before they use those too :( dont think its bad either if they clarify but they still shouldnt use stock pics from another seller
 
Grant, I think people like StandbyandFire should have a viable way to protect their creations.  To liken that to what Monsanto does is kind of... uh are you drinking?  I would like to see people like StandbyandFire  be protected against the huge companies. in this case China ( aren't they owned by the state? ) but also protected against small business who wants to capitalize on his reputation.

So someone sells Chocolate Bhutlah seeds, doesnt say they are not from StandbyandFire strain.  Does the opposite and tries to draw a link between the seeds and the pepper by StandbyandFire.  Someone buys them, they aren't all that great.  That now reflects on StandbyandFire.  It just isnt right.

At this point, I think the best thing a person can do is trademark the name before ever mentioning the pepper.  By the time plant patent protection is available, after all those years of growing out, the name winds up being used so often it probably can not get a trademark.  As a result, if you trademark a new name you do not benefit from the public knowledge your good will generated while growing them out and getting them ready.
 
Dude is like a folk hero to people like me.  Normal every day guy comes up with something really special.  Now China is screwing with him, ebay folk are screwing with him, all the scavengers are circling him.  Aint right.
 
Mein - Same for people who give away seeds.  Not saying you do this, but if you were to give away seeds claiming they are from a person's strain when they are not, you could be damaging that person's reputation.

 
 
It is "right," because it's how the world works. It may not be "fair" or an outstanding showcase of ethics, but it's as right as rain.

You can spew a lot of bullshit, and maybe people like to jerk along w/ you, but not me ...

The reason this is nothing more than the n+1 paragraphs of dribble from you - is because you are fabricating a world where what you need to be true, is there ... in your mind.

The "reflection" you speak of is in the community of people who didn't but from him direct. It doesn't matter that much what those people think, so long as the people who are HIS customers are well-served. Nobody who didn't buy from him would think poorly of him, so his reputation is fine. Actually he comes out better than fine, like anyone else who's producing wares that are hot enough that other people can rip them off and sell to a crazed market.

This is all stupid shit.

Just wake up and water your plants and make someone a better website. Then do the next one.
 
Grant said: "Nobody who didn't buy from him would think poorly of him, so his reputation is fine."
 
FBI reviewed Steven McLaurin's pepper, posted video and photos.  People watch or read the review, then see the same photos used to hawk pepper seeds by the same name.  Consumers buy the seeds, grow the pepper, and think this pepper isn't all that.  I do think that harms Mr. McLaurin and I do think the practice is not right.  I do not think it is right for people to sell seeds that did not come from his line of pepper while indicating they did come from his like of pepper.
 
You seem to feel differently.  Nothing wrong with that.  Great to have the discussion.  All that other other stuff, inventing worlds, the semantics of the word 'right', and so on... wow guy.  Just wow.
 
ajdrew said:
Grant said: "Nobody who didn't buy from him would think poorly of him, so his reputation is fine."
 
FBI reviewed Steven McLaurin's pepper, posted video and photos.  People watch or read the review, then see the same photos used to hawk pepper seeds by the same name.  Consumers buy the seeds, grow the pepper, and think this pepper isn't all that.  I do think that harms Mr. McLaurin and I do think the practice is not right.  I do not think it is right for people to sell seeds that did not come from his line of pepper while indicating they did come from his like of pepper.
 
You seem to feel differently.  Nothing wrong with that.  Great to have the discussion.  All that other other stuff, inventing worlds, the semantics of the word 'right', and so on... wow guy.  Just wow.
 
If you develop an opinion about a person's product, having bought a derivative from someone else, then you are sheeple ...
 
Genetics rule. If you don't get that right at the POS in the beginning, the rest is a monumental waste of time and effort ... ask me about my original grow using Hirt's plants ...
 
I have reaper seed in the OG manilla folders from the debut offering from EC ... I suspect they'll grow Reaper, and I don't have to worry myself about that ...
 
Here's what happened late last night. I bought three and three ea of Reaper and Bhutlah plants from Crazy Hot Seeds, along w/ the pack of seeds to fill in the blanks in the super's from the past two years I haven't grown any plants ...
 
I have no idea who Crazy Hot Seeds is, if they are here on THP too, but I know the telephone number's area code is the next one over ... which means the plants won't be traveling far, and will be coming to an environment not too different from the one they began in all likelihood ...
 
I linked to them through your site, are you attaching a query parameter to the URL and have you called them to have them track inbound links coming from your sites? If not, you should ...
 
Factoring out location is ridiculous, when it has everything to do w/ the process of growing ...
 
Buying genetics known to thrive locally is always the best decision one can make ...
 
If you are buying genetics from someone other than the source, you better know why you are doing it, or you are just doing it wrong ...
 
But my frustration isn't w/ any of this ... it's with the fact that you feel comfortable talking about all of these things without providing much substance ...
 
I want to hear more about AJ's grow, from AJ ...
 
Without the requisite knowledge of whether AJ has a fucking clue what he's talking about, it sounds like a bunch of unfounded gossip ...

Tell us about this Seed Saving, I'm interested, anyways ...
 
So far, though, this is a lot of name-dropping Google-juice promoting crap ...
 
Unless you want to be the TMZ of the hot pepper world, you are going to have to drop a glog and walk the walk, I'm afraid ...
 
The bhutlah has been spread and developed by different people. The term chocolate is extremely common for a brown pepper. It's generic, and I think it's ridiculous to claim someone has a monopoly on the term for the bhutlah. People that haven't heard of this variety could easily come up with the same name while developing their bhutlah. The guy can protect his plants with PBR, and trademark the name if he wanted. If he PBRs or trademarks the name, I won't be growing it. I breed peppers and I'm against trademarking names and PBR. The Chinese people will still sell those seeds, because they don't give a crap about PBR or trademarks.
 
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