queequeg152 said:
problem with your very carefully worded, painfully moderated-middle of the road statement here... is even this is contaminated by bullshit spewed by organic advocates and anti gmo folks.
the bullshit rhetoric has soaked so deep... its like atrizine at this point, slowly making its way down to the brine aquifers despite being out of use for like 20years.
in other words, what you state as your non scientific reasons for avoiding GMOs are bullshit. bullshit that i assert has its roots in anti gmo retards and their bullshit rhetoric.
monopolated food production does not exist.
monopolies on seeds do not exist. there may or may not be a monopoly on a particular TRAIT at some point in time... but these traits just make growing shit cheaper/easier. having a better product is NOT MONOPOLISTIC.
GMO seed companies do not and have never sued "independant" farmers. the only people monsanto has sued were farmers who WILLFULLY cultivated plants with the patented traits.
This is like a band accidentally dropping a thumb drive on your lawn... and you make millions of copies of the albums on the thumb drive and sell them for profit.
regarding transparancy... why in the hell would ANYONE label shit as being GMO? it has 0 health implications, 0 potential for alergic ractions, 0 implications with respect to calories or what ever you need labels for... moreover, the well has been so badly poisned by anti GMO folks at this point... labeling something as GMO is basically equivelant to putting a radiation sticker on your product.
there is such massive DISINSENTIVE to putting that label on food now... that force of government would be required to get anyone to comply with the labeling.
so let me circle back to an earlier point.
do you think its ok for the government to legislate labels for purely ideological reasons? or reasons that have 0 to do with science or reason or logic?
and again... NOBODY is arguing against folks right to buy organic food. its their money.
people are arguing against these ideologues trying to leverage the force of the federal government to basically murder an industry.
and dont expect me to not call them on their bullshit they they try to couch their reasoning in science or logic.
im sorry you are so but hurt by my tone. but your position on vaccination merited what ever abuse you think i generated.
regarding my "petulance". do you even read your own posts?
Bicycle808 said:
It's one thing to disagree with others' opinions; it's quite another to lie about it. Monsanto has sued independent farmers, repeatedly, around the world. The monopolies are created by natural occurrences; once the GMO crops cross-pollinate non-GMO crops in nearby fields, the resultant seeds will carry some of the GMO traits, many of which are actually patented, and Monsanto has sued over this.
In regards to the labeling, how does the regulation of printed ingredients (a practice which has already existed for quite some time) murder an industry? Do you know anything about the state of the indstry? Do you know about the sales trends that have occurred for producers who have voluntarily added GMO info to their packaging? Do you really think that customers don't have the right to know what they are buying and, subsequently, ingesting? The rights of secrecy and profit for the companies producing the foodstuffs supercedes the rights of the consumers to make an informed decision? Are you even serious?
If, as you say, GMOs are not harmful, then why not dive right in there and label it? Maybe even promote GMO content as a selling-point? "Oatie-Ohs!!! Now with wholesome bacteria DNA and other GMO wizardry!" If GMOs are so awesome, why is all of this money being spent to keep'm a secret?
I think there's probably some comfortable middle-ground between an outright ban on GMOs on the one hand and a total lack of transparency and regulation on the use of GMOs on the other. I don't see how any honest person or corporation could fear or oppose the concept of well-informed consumers. Let's label this shit, and let's end Monsanto et al's ability to patent crop species that have existed for untold centuries. Let's end the drive to prevent indie farmers from saving seeds, as they have done for countless generations. Let's do whatever we can to stop the legislation that seeks to curtail what private citizens can grow in their own backyards.
Listen, I'm sorry if you were upset that I took a polite and moderate tone in my post. My goal is not to change anyone's mind in a forum like this. I actually like But, seriously, you really ought to stop lying. And cussing ppl out, needlessly. It does nothing to bolster your argument, which is weak to begin with. Once you start piling on the abuse and telling demonstrably false stories, the whole thing falls apart. Surely, you can do better than this.
In 1997, Percy Schmeiser found Monsanto's genetically modified “Roundup Ready Canola” plants growing near his farm. He testified that he sprayed his nearby field and found that much of the crop survived, meaning it was also Roundup Ready.[2] He testified that he then harvested that crop, saved it separately from his other harvest, and intentionally planted it in 1998.[2] Monsanto approached him to pay a license fee for using Monsanto's patented technology without a license. Schmeiser refused, claiming that the actual seed was his because it was grown on his land, and so Monsanto sued Schmeiser for patent infringement on August 6, 1998.[2]
For the next several years, the case traveled through the Canadian court system. Meanwhile, Schmeiser became a popular figure among those opposed to genetic engineering. He accepted speaking engagements around the world. Ultimately, a Supreme Court 5-4 ruling found in favor of Monsanto, because Monsanto owned a valid patent and Schmeiser violated the patent by intentionally replanting the Roundup Ready seed that he had saved.[3]
queequeg152 said:put up or shut up.
what law suits? show me.
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
Now don't jump all over me...I have no horse in this race. ... You made no stipulation about the lawsuits...Why Does Monsanto Sue Farmers Who Save Seeds?
Directly from Monsanto's website:
Sometimes however, we are forced to resort to lawsuits. This is a relatively rare circumstance, with 147 lawsuits filed since 1997 in the United States. This averages about 8 per year for the past 18 years. To date, only 9 cases have gone through full trial. In every one of these instances, the jury or court decided in our favor.
NECM
Yes I did....queequeg152 said:did you read the earlier posts?
queequeg152 said:they sued like 5 people for BLATENT patent infringment.
Sometimes however, we are forced to resort to lawsuits. This is a relatively rare circumstance, with 147 lawsuits filed since 1997 in the United States.
Maybe not?queequeg152 said:lol this same shit happened in that other GMO thread.
its clear what im talking about.
solid7 said:Or a chicken pox vaccination, which, on anecdotal evidence, appears to have a link to adult shingles outbreaks. (let's research this, please) .
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:To be quite honest I stayed out of this as I have no opinion one way or the other on GMO's. I only see a vague connection between Organic seeds (Which is the original reason for this thread.) and GMO's so why it turned into a pissn' match about them I haven't a clue.
Yep. This conversation has come full circle, and taken many tangents, but this is still the right answer.Bicycle808 said:GMO content is the main factor that could make a difference between Cert'd Organic seeds and "conventional" seeds. Cert'd Organic is, by definition, no-GMO. Conventional seeds may or may not be GMO.
i dont get it? so you think i asserted that there were no lawsuits despite me linking one?The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:Yes I did....
Maybe not?
`
Bicycle808 said:
GMO content is the main factor that could make a difference between Cert'd Organic seeds and "conventional" seeds. Cert'd Organic is, by definition, no-GMO. Conventional seeds may or may not be GMO. Personally, i don't worry about it, but i have a few friends with gardens who insist on organic seeds, and GMO is the reason why. The pissn' match? I think there's a few ppl on this thread who ar looking for a good pissn' match anywhere they can find one.
I'd say that the most obvious answer to the OP's question, "why organic seed?", is that some folks are looking to avoid GMOs and that's the sure-shot way to do that. I guess a seconday reason would be, if you support the organic movement, you would be "voting with your dollars" in buying that organic seeds.
The questions about Monsanto lawsuits? Yeah, that's way off-topic, which is why i basically left that part of the discussion. Anyone who is really interested can google that shit themselves, i s'pose. No sense in getting into it with a GMO fanboy who already knows about it but pretends to deny it to keep the argument going....
queequeg152 said:or you think i asserted that there were ONLY 5?
Dunno, you tell me, how many did you assert?queequeg152 said:they sued like 5 people for BLATENT patent infringment.
I think if you can't get the facts correct, Monsanto's asserting almost 150 and you posting 5, then how can we think your point has any validity?queequeg152 said:lol what is with this absurd pedantry? do you think fixating on the absolute number somehow invalidates my point?
queequeg152 said:the actual number i 9 trials, not 5, 9 trials.
Definition of sue:queequeg152 said:they sued like 5 people for BLATENT patent infringment.
Definition of lawsuit:queequeg152 said:what law suits? show me.
We haven't settled this point. Your first two posts on Saturday I'm quoting above, and the reason for my first post in this thread, never mentioned trial until it became convenient to CYA about my posting.queequeg152 said:im still waiting for you to adress my points though.
this is hilarious. what point do you think you are even making? oh im not counting the out of court settlements, so all my points are invalid?The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:Definition of sue:
verb (so͞o)
institute legal proceedings against (a person or institution), typically for redress.
Definition of lawsuit:
noun (lôˌso͞ot)
a claim or dispute brought to a court of law for adjudication.
Why Does Monsanto Sue Farmers Who Save Seeds?
A very small percentage of farmers do not honor this agreement. Monsanto does become aware, through our own actions or through third-parties, of individuals who are suspected of violating our patents and agreements. Where we do find violations, we are able to settle most of these cases without ever going to trial. In many cases, these farmers remain our customers. Sometimes however, we are forced to resort to lawsuits. This is a relatively rare circumstance, with 147 lawsuits filed since 1997 in the United States. This averages about 8 per year for the past 18 years. To date, only 9 cases have gone through full trial. In every one of these instances, the jury or court decided in our favor.
We haven't settled this point. Your first two posts on Saturday I'm quoting above, and the reason for my first post in this thread, never mentioned trial until it became convenient to CYA about my posting.