Help for a Beginner

L

Lucaskings

I have searched around the web, a few of the threads on here (though my searching skills are lacking) and I was hoping you all could tell me if my understanding of the selling process is sound.

I am looking to sell my dry mixes online and eventually in stores as well. Now I am not sure on the ideal order of steps but, this is what I have done.

1)Perfected my mixes
2)Contacted label makers and jar sellers.
3)Have had the nutrition facts provided
4)Made sure name and domain name are avilable for purchase (They are)
5)Began researching steps to trademarking name

Now, this is where I am a bit confused. I have read that many people use co-packers others have pro-kitchens in which they cook and bottle. I have read that dry mixes like seasonings and spices have different regulations. Since they are dry certain things can be forgone like the pro-kitchen since contamination is not a huge issue.

In my case since my mixes are dry, custom made but, provided in large bag/containers by a third party can I bottle my mixes on my own at home or by hand? I would like to be free from having to work with a co-packerm with the liberty to work at my natural fast pace. Not to mention the savings in money.

Am I missing any steps?


Thanks in advance for any help
 
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Lucaskings said:
I have searched around the web, a few of the threads on here (though my searching skills are lacking) and I was hoping you all could tell me if my understanding of the selling process is sound.

I am looking to sell my dry mixes online and eventually in stores as well. Now I am not sure on the ideal order of steps but, this is what I have done.

1)Perfected my mixes
2)Contacted label makers and jar sellers.
3)Have had the nutrition facts provided
4)Made sure name and domain name are avilable for purchase (They are)
5)Began researching steps to trademarking name

Now, this is where I am a bit confused. I have read that many people use co-packers others have pro-kitchens in which they cook and bottle. I have read that dry mixes like seasonings and spices have different regulations. Since they are dry certain things can be forgone like the pro-kitchen since contamination is not a huge issue.

In my case since my mixes are dry, custom made but, provided in large bag/containers by a third party can I bottle my mixes on my own at home or by hand? I would like to be free from having to work with a co-packerm with the liberty to work at my natural fast pace. Not to mention the savings in money.

Am I missing any steps?


Thanks in advance for any help
Click to expand...

Off the bat I'll say I have zero experience with dry rubs.

Regulations vary state to state. I'm in CA, one of the more restrictive states.

These are all good steps:

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]1)Perfected my mixes[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]2)Contacted label makers and jar sellers.[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]3)Have had the nutrition facts provided[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]4)Made sure name and domain name are avilable for purchase (They are)[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]5)Began researching steps to trademarking name[/background]

I'd add questions to some of these - why jars? glass = fragile, heavy, bulky. More $ for shipping, etc. Also jars more $ than plastic baggies to buy.

Labels - if you're starting out, your labels can pretty easily be created on a home color printer. Unless you mean label design, which for powders can be quite simple. I think those buying powders of specialty hot peppers are probably less about the label and more about the content. But you'll want your branding on there - and if developing branding is what you mean by label makers (rather than someone to print your labels for you) then my mistake. Even for the latter though, you have it a bit easier, as you don't need the water-resistant labels so it should be cheaper.

Trademarking is not that tough - if you have a relatively common name in mind, it can be expensive as you'll want to do the extra research through Thompson trademark search, and consider hiring an IP attorney to help you evaluate the results and publish the "intent to use" TM. If it's something very unusual; for example your last name is "Franzengenden" and you're calling it "Franzengenden's Firey Flamefarter's Pepper Powders" then you're probably safe self-publishing, which is like $300-400 last I saw.


As mentioned, I'm not a powder guy, but I have a very hard time believing that this is true:

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]since contamination is not a huge issue.
Click to expand...
[/background]

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]S[/background][background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]ince the safe food acts of the early part of the 20th century contamination is *always* a huge issue. I would check into that extremely carefully. It's always cheaper/easier to do it at home, but you need to meet the requirements. I think in CA you have to have a separate entrance, no pets anywhere in the house, be safe food handling certified, have your kitchen inspected, etc, etc, etc. But I don't know where you are & what laws apply regionally, but I'd check & double check. That is really important to get right. [/background]

You'll need to register your business and file a DBA in its name (Doing Business As) and you'll need to determine what type of business it is. Likely sole owner/proprietor, but that's your call.

Another important consideration in insurance. You'll need liability insurance - something like $2M. Depending on your business model, storage details, etc, the cost will vary, but I'd plan on $900-1600/yr for this.

As for the co-packer costing more, you should also look into that. If you find someone with the right equipment and purchasing power, you'll benefit from their economies of scale and cost of goods. If they're already buying a ton of baggies and peppers and already have massive commercial dehydrators, and are buying black pepper or Cayenne or sea salt or any other "common" ingredient you use, they may get it for pennies on the dollar compared to you. And they can produce at a scale you can only dream of.

Just food for thought on that last one. I hope this helps and wish you luck!
:cheers:
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
Off the bat I'll say I have zero experience with dry rubs.

Regulations vary state to state. I'm in CA, one of the more restrictive states.

These are all good steps:

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]1)Perfected my mixes[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]2)Contacted label makers and jar sellers.[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]3)Have had the nutrition facts provided[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]4)Made sure name and domain name are avilable for purchase (They are)[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]5)Began researching steps to trademarking name[/background]

I'd add questions to some of these - why jars? glass = fragile, heavy, bulky. More $ for shipping, etc. Also jars more $ than plastic baggies to buy.

Labels - if you're starting out, your labels can pretty easily be created on a home color printer. Unless you mean label design, which for powders can be quite simple. I think those buying powders of specialty hot peppers are probably less about the label and more about the content. But you'll want your branding on there - and if developing branding is what you mean by label makers (rather than someone to print your labels for you) then my mistake. Even for the latter though, you have it a bit easier, as you don't need the water-resistant labels so it should be cheaper.

Trademarking is not that tough - if you have a relatively common name in mind, it can be expensive as you'll want to do the extra research through Thompson trademark search, and consider hiring an IP attorney to help you evaluate the results and publish the "intent to use" TM. If it's something very unusual; for example your last name is "Franzengenden" and you're calling it "Franzengenden's Firey Flamefarter's Pepper Powders" then you're probably safe self-publishing, which is like $300-400 last I saw.


As mentioned, I'm not a powder guy, but I have a very hard time believing that this is true:

[/background][/font][/color]

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]S[/background][background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]ince the safe food acts of the early part of the 20th century contamination is *always* a huge issue. I would check into that extremely carefully. It's always cheaper/easier to do it at home, but you need to meet the requirements. I think in CA you have to have a separate entrance, no pets anywhere in the house, be safe food handling certified, have your kitchen inspected, etc, etc, etc. But I don't know where you are & what laws apply regionally, but I'd check & double check. That is really important to get right. [/background]

You'll need to register your business and file a DBA in its name (Doing Business As) and you'll need to determine what type of business it is. Likely sole owner/proprietor, but that's your call.

Another important consideration in insurance. You'll need liability insurance - something like $2M. Depending on your business model, storage details, etc, the cost will vary, but I'd plan on $900-1600/yr for this.

As for the co-packer costing more, you should also look into that. If you find someone with the right equipment and purchasing power, you'll benefit from their economies of scale and cost of goods. If they're already buying a ton of baggies and peppers and already have massive commercial dehydrators, and are buying black pepper or Cayenne or sea salt or any other "common" ingredient you use, they may get it for pennies on the dollar compared to you. And they can produce at a scale you can only dream of.

Just food for thought on that last one. I hope this helps and wish you luck!
:cheers:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

1) I just realized I wrote Jar. I meant plastic shaker bottles (4-6 oz have not decided).

2) I can design the label, I meant someone who can print them out for me in bulk.

3) Thanks for this, the name I chose is unique on purpose so that the domain name would be available. If self publishing is enough I would prefer to go that route can I do it online?

4) I am in Los Angeles, CA. I read the home kitchen rules from I believe Ohio. I knew it would be different in CA.

5) Would insurance etc. be necessary if I rented a commercial kitchen?

6)Money is not the sole issue for being hesitant towards co-packer. Since spice mixes cannot be protected there is always the fear of my mix being stolen, large orders out of the blue seem like an ordeal. Would I have to send them the labels, plastic bottles, and spice mix?

Them being able to get some ingredients is not a huge advantage. My rubs are a mixture of savory spices with fruit flavor essences in powder form. I worked with a flavor company and they made it to my liking, which is why I was able to get the ingredient list and nutritional content for free. They sent my samples but, they have minimum orders by weight in large clear bags. So, there is really no mixing that will be done, I just need a certain amount of mix to be added to the bottles and then sealed.

Thanks for your help
 
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Welcome LucasKings-

You should contact your local health district/authority first. You'll probably have better sales through local venues, so I'd suggest going through the local steps first and then it'll be all in place for your online sales. It could be the city, county or state. Just call the city people first and they will direct you to the appropriate agency.

Many shared-use commercial kitchens require insurance, it all depends on the facility. You should have insurance before selling anything to the general public. For a dried product, I'd guess maybe $100-200 a year, but dunno

I know of a couple spice companies who will co-pack for a very reasonable rate. Send me a PM if you'd like to talk to them. They will do a small (1# or so ) test batch. They can pack in jars, or portion packets...they also have "climate controlled" facilities. They can pack in low humidity conditions which will help spice mixes not clump unless you add anti-clumping agents. They also sign non-disclosure agreements with their clients. It's standard for any co-packer. I know it's a risk to tell your "secret recipe", but all of their clients have "secret recipes".

You can do a lot with Avery Labels, MS Word, and the local Office Depot-type print shop. Don't drop $$$$ on labels until you are SURE your product is in it's final form, and also that the label contains all the necessary info (which varies by juristiction). Whoever is your local health authority will dictate what must be on the label.


Good Luck! salsalady
 
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X2 on SL's post - I use a co-packer and I have to carry insurance. If you intend on ever selling in stores, the stores will likely insist that you have insurance.

Check, double check and triple check CA's laws. We are some of the most stringent in the country and I am still skeptical that contamination is not a concern.

And X2 on SL's comment about finalizing the label and NDA's - co-packers wouldn't be in business very long if they got a rep for stealing everyone's recipes. :cheers:
 
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salsalady said:
Welcome LucasKings-

You should contact your local health district/authority first. You'll probably have better sales through local venues, so I'd suggest going through the local steps first and then it'll be all in place for your online sales. It could be the city, county or state. Just call the city people first and they will direct you to the appropriate agency.

Many shared-use commercial kitchens require insurance, it all depends on the facility. You should have insurance before selling anything to the general public. For a dried product, I'd guess maybe $100-200 a year, but dunno

I know of a couple spice companies who will co-pack for a very reasonable rate. Send me a PM if you'd like to talk to them. They will do a small (1# or so ) test batch. They can pack in jars, or portion packets...they also have "climate controlled" facilities. They can pack in low humidity conditions which will help spice mixes not clump unless you add anti-clumping agents. They also sign non-disclosure agreements with their clients. It's standard for any co-packer. I know it's a risk to tell your "secret recipe", but all of their clients have "secret recipes".

You can do a lot with Avery Labels, MS Word, and the local Office Depot-type print shop. Don't drop $$$$ on labels until you are SURE your product is in it's final form, and also that the label contains all the necessary info (which varies by juristiction). Whoever is your local health authority will dictate what must be on the label.


Good Luck! salsalady
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have been reading around and it seems that Co-Packer is the way to go. I would love to talk to them.

How would the process go when working with a co-packer on the legal end? Labeling, FDA compliance ETC. Would they help with that?

I have the dry mix ready and to my liking. The business (law) side is the real head scratcher.
 
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The way it worked with my product wa that the co-packer dictated a lot of label changes in the 11th hour.

As the packager they are liable for label content.

For a rub it's likely less intense than for an acidic hot packed held stable product (sauce) but I'm reasonably certain they will dictate to you what has to be on the label. They may have an I -house person who can help you, but depends on the firm.
 
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It's been a couple years since I had the spice house do anything for me, but at that time, they didn't dictate anything about the label. I gave them the recipe (it was in cups at that time, but they helped with transferring all the measurements to grams) they did the test batch (for something like $25) and then did a run.

For the business side, (for Washington state anyway) you need a business license (every business in the state, no matter what kind of business, has to have a business license, it's ~ $25) and then I have a WA state food processor license ($55, because I make my own products. If you use a co-packer, I don't think you need this license, but if you use a shared-use kitchen, you will need this type of license as you are doing the processing, just using some other facility.) And if you sell/sample at farmers markets or demo in stores, your local health agency may want you to have a food handlers card (the same thing all restaurant workers have ... usually ~$10).

I'll forward the info that I have, gotta go look up the links-

message sent, check your PM
 
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lilcholo said:
Why go commercial when you can just sell on eBay? Less of Uncle Sam to deal with.
Click to expand...

So let's see - in one post you're recommending
1. Tax evasion
2. Negating safe food handling practices, and county, state & federal regulations.

Selling on eBay is going commercial. And as its a food product, there are no shortcuts. All it takes is for 1 person to buy on eBay, claim your product made them sick, and you're toast. The liability could be in the millions & if you're a totally illegal business they will use that against you too.

Laws are in place for a reason - this isn't the world of caveat emptor any more - consumers have all kinds of protection, so as a manufacturer or food wholesaler/retailer, you'd better have your ducks in a row.

You can also bet that there are people scouring the web all day just looking for illegal companies hoping for an easy score with a quick settlement. It's a bad economy & setting yourself up to those risks is just too easy for an unscrupulous person to take advantage of.

I sincerely hope you're not planning to do that with your hot sauce - It's a very very risky proposition, especially since the liability will be 100% on you.

My $.02
 
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lilcholo said:
Why go commercial when you can just sell on eBay? Less of Uncle Sam to deal with.
Click to expand...

So lilcholo's sauce label wasn't just for "family and friends"? :(

Anyone can make anything and sell it any way they want. Back of a truck on the side of the road, flea-bay, internet...doesn't make it safe (for the customer or the producer) and it doen't mean it's right.

jmho~
 
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Hi everyone!

I don't mean to hijack Lucaskings' thread, so I apologize now...

SalsaLady,
I was wondering if you could pass on the information you are sending to LucasKing to me as well as I am looking to begin production of some dry mixes?

LDHS,
I read your other thread about your first bottle run, (congrats by the way); I was impressed with what you had to say about your co-packer and was wondering if you'd be able to share your co-packer's name? I am also in the SF Bay Area, so this co-packer may be a fit for my BBQ sauces.

Thanks Everyone,

Jeremy
 
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Hi Jeremy - I'm waiting for AT&T to
Repair my Internet (on my phone right now) but I'll send you a PM later.

I'll have several questions for you - not to be difficult but out of respect for my copacker's time. I hope you understand.

Will PM you in a bit.
 
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This is all really good info, and it'll take me a while to soak it all in, since as LDHS can attest, I'd like to make this into an official business on the side, and I definitely need all the help I can get :)
 
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Awesome thread. I little help from those in the know. Earlier it was stated that the co-packager is liable for label content however, I recieved this from a co-packager I plan to work with.

"we do follow all FDA regulations but as a private label packager we are not liable for label content, you are because it is your label but we can look at them and tell you if they meet FDA guidelines."

"We will provide you with all needed paper work."
 
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Hi Matthew,
the feedback posted here on THP is usually relevant to where the person is and what they are making.

Here in WA state, the regulations differ if you are county licensed, WHICH county you are licensed in, and/or state licensed. What your co-packer is quoting is what is required for their licensing requirements relevnt to where they are and what they can produce. It could be something as simple as a co-packer being inside the city limits or out in the county.

If a person is looking to enter the sauce or manufactured foods market, they need to have a business license in whatever juristiction they live in. Then you go to the co-packer and work with the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) to make sure your product is manufacured according to the PA.

That's the Process Authority> If your co-packer hasn't talked to you about the PA....you might think about another co-packer......

also regarding labeling requirements, a co-packer won't usually provide FDA nutrition labeling info and all that...because it is not required. But it is up to you as the new processor to figure all that stuff out.
 
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