overwintering Question's on Overwintering..

[BigCedar]

Hello Everybody,
I have a few questions on how to continue my pepper plants growth throughout our winter. I posted the topic in the lighting section but no bites(don't know if this topic works here too) Others have PMed me that are in need of advice on this exact same thing so I hope yall can help. I have an 8X6 Greenhouse in the back of my garage that I'm getting ready for my pepper plants for a winter home. It's my first year overwintering and because alot of my plants are so late in production and our weathers been so shitty this year I would like to keep em growin so they can reach full potential, have fresh chiles in the winter, and huge plants next year

Anyway.. I didn't wanna spend a shit ton of money on 100dollar bulbs so I bought 4 48in growlights that I have hanging in 4 reflective shop light fixtures I'll be buying 4 more bulbs soon.. I'll have a couple fans goin in the greenhouse and the garage will be isolated from the cold.. I was wondering if that will be enough light? and should I be putting any reflective material in the greenhouse on top of that? and what lights do you experts suggest or any other tips would be wonderful. I bought 4 of these..
http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=CONSUMERSPECPAGE&PRODUCTCODE=49893
I read T8s work better? is that true?


Thanks for your time!
Brandon

 

[socapots]

you got a good question there man.
Im in the same boat. as far as wanting peppers in the winter.
Personally i have not seen any reference to T8 being better.
Everything i have read was on here and its been T5 being the better ones.
From what i know the differences are that the T5 lights are thinner (then T8), More efficient, but the all weather usability is not as good as the T8s..
and they are more expensive..

But what i dont know is if you can get the same spectrum of light bulbs for both fixtures..
Id assume yes.. But have not checked it out..

edit: that link didnt work for me.

 

[BigCedar]

you got a good question there man.
Im in the same boat. as far as wanting peppers in the winter.
Personally i have not seen any reference to T8 being better.
Everything i have read was on here and its been T5 being the better ones.
From what i know the differences are that the T5 lights are thinner (then T8), More efficient, but the all weather usability is not as good as the T8s..
and they are more expensive..

But what i dont know is if you can get the same spectrum of light bulbs for both fixtures..
Id assume yes.. But have not checked it out..

edit: that link didnt work for me.

Thanks for the reply n advice dude. The ones I have now are T12s.. sounds like I need to get a different bulb from what I've been readin, I updated the link, sorry bout that
Thanks again soca

 

[socapots]

no worries man.
The T12s are the biggest bulb.. Not sure if you are aware but the number after the T has to do with the thickness of the bulb. i think T5 is 5/8ths of an inch. T8 is one inch, and T12 1.5 inch...
T12 is the least efficient and cheapest to purchase. then 8s then 5s.
from what i can gather because you will run them for an extended period of time. more energy efficient would be good. What i dont know is if the extra cost between the 8s and 5s is worth it.. and that all depends on if you can get the right bulb with the proper light spectrum..
Man i hope someone tells me if im wrong here. lol.

 

[Datil]

Hello BigCedar,

i dont cleary understand if you'll have natural sun light coming in the GH or not.
The lights alone may be enough to keep plants survive through the winter.
But if you want to keep plants budding/producing you need a lot more light.
A rough estimate is about 30 watt/sqft for indoor.
If you get sun light in the garage, you can use lamps to add some hours of light to the winter day lenght (so the plants see at least 12 hours of light every day) and hopefully grow all year round.

Good luck

Datil

 

[willard3]

Spend some time serching on this board as this has been discussed ad infinitum.

If I type lighting, I get 125 hits.

 

[Pepper-Guru]

The thing to remember with flouros is the smaller the number after the T, the more intense the lumen output. I have grown some amazing "yields" indoors with T5's Honestly, you could take a security type lamp (the ones that turn off/on with sunlight sensor ontop) replace the MV bulb with a 20$ MH and bam, you have one intense grow lamp. Now as for your greenhouse...its a greenhouse....supplemental lighting would be fine, but I wouldn't put any material up. That will keep out the sunlight and its thermal energy. What is your climate zone and temps for your winters? I know a "cold frame" style greenhouse will NOT keep your peppers thriving throughout winter without serious consideration and implementation of solar masses and alternative heat sources. Water and earth hold temps the best. Look into solar masses if you plan on having a chilly greenhouse, you should be fine

 

[Avon Barksdale]

The T12s are pretty inefficient, and are being phased out. The manufacture of the ballasts was prohibited starting last year. I'm sure there will be bulbs sold for a long time, but I would use T8s or T5s. Or HID lighting.

If I'm reading correctly you're going to use 8 40-watt bulbs, for 360 watts total. I'm guessing the cost is probably about $100 for everything. You could get a 4 ft 6 bulb T5 light for about $200. Those bulbs you showed put out only 1,900 lumens per bulb, or a little under 15,000 total initial lumens. A 4 ft. 6 bulb high output T5 light will put out about 30,000 initial lumens using less watts (324). That's not a completely fair comparison, because lumens measures only light visible to the human eye, a better comparison would be PAR, but manufacturers rarely list that information. Regardless, a high output T5 light is going to deliver a LOT more usable light to the plants for a slightly less electric bill.

You could also consider a 400 watt metal halide or HPS light which you can get for about $200. A 400 watt metal halide will produce about 40,000 initial lumens, a HPS about 50,000.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Also, I would do some google searches for "supplemental lighting for greenhouses", you'll find a lot of good articles like this one: http://extension.unh.edu/Agric/AGGHFL/OFAlight.pdf

I would do a lot of research and try to understand the technical aspects the best you can. There's a lot more that goes into providing supplemental light for a greenhouse vs. just lighting a small area indoors.

 

[socapots]

Thats some good info man.
Thanks for giving the lesson. The amount of lumens is not something i even thought about when it came to the differences.

 

[BigCedar]

Hello BigCedar,

i dont cleary understand if you'll have natural sun light coming in the GH or not.
The lights alone may be enough to keep plants survive through the winter.
But if you want to keep plants budding/producing you need a lot more light.
A rough estimate is about 30 watt/sqft for indoor.
If you get sun light in the garage, you can use lamps to add some hours of light to the winter day lenght (so the plants see at least 12 hours of light every day) and hopefully grow all year round.

Good luck

Datil

Hey Datil, Thanks for the post dude! Sorry bout that, left a few details out.. I won't be having ANY natural sunlight coming in. No window on the garage but it's my only option next to turning my kitchen into a grow room.. The misses won't go for that one Hence why I needed good advice on this..I honestly think it'll be amazing if I can do it. Researchin info for this every chance I get. Thanks for the advice, I realized that I need more light in a quick hurry. Thanks again dude.
Brandon

The thing to remember with flouros is the smaller the number after the T, the more intense the lumen output. I have grown some amazing "yields" indoors with T5's Honestly, you could take a security type lamp (the ones that turn off/on with sunlight sensor ontop) replace the MV bulb with a 20$ MH and bam, you have one intense grow lamp. Now as for your greenhouse...its a greenhouse....supplemental lighting would be fine, but I wouldn't put any material up. That will keep out the sunlight and its thermal energy. What is your climate zone and temps for your winters? I know a "cold frame" style greenhouse will NOT keep your peppers thriving throughout winter without serious consideration and implementation of solar masses and alternative heat sources. Water and earth hold temps the best. Look into solar masses if you plan on having a chilly greenhouse, you should be fine

Thanks Guru! I really appreciate all the advice and the advice you have elsewhere on THP. The temps get down to the teens for about a week out of the year. Below 32 for a good month out of the year.. Why I'm puttin material up. Thinkin fully covered in frost cloth for sure.. maybe even fully covered in tarps after that. I'm thinkin insulating the garage floor with a good 3 layers of cardboard or maybe even a large heating mat. Not worried about the temp when the lights will be on.. Worried about the temp for the 5 hours they'll be off. That I still have to figure out. Goin with T5's. Might even get an extra 2 so I'll have 10 of those SOBS blaring down on em

The T12s are pretty inefficient, and are being phased out. The manufacture of the ballasts was prohibited starting last year. I'm sure there will be bulbs sold for a long time, but I would use T8s or T5s. Or HID lighting.

If I'm reading correctly you're going to use 8 40-watt bulbs, for 360 watts total. I'm guessing the cost is probably about $100 for everything. You could get a 4 ft 6 bulb T5 light for about $200. Those bulbs you showed put out only 1,900 lumens per bulb, or a little under 15,000 total initial lumens. A 4 ft. 6 bulb high output T5 light will put out about 30,000 initial lumens using less watts (324). That's not a completely fair comparison, because lumens measures only light visible to the human eye, a better comparison would be PAR, but manufacturers rarely list that information. Regardless, a high output T5 light is going to deliver a LOT more usable light to the plants for a slightly less electric bill.

You could also consider a 400 watt metal halide or HPS light which you can get for about $200. A 400 watt metal halide will produce about 40,000 initial lumens, a HPS about 50,000.

Dude.. I loved your post. Thanks for that lesson in lighting! I'm new to the whole lighting thing so that just rocked my world lol. Makes sense.. I'll be goin with the T5's as you and Guru suggested. Maybe even 10 of em. Got a bonus coming up soon so now I know what to spend it on not only that but thanks for saving me some money on the electricity bill! My wife also wanted me to thank you lol. Thanks a mil Avon

Brandon


I'll keep you all posted on how it turns out. I'll start a log once everything goes in.

 

[Pepper-Guru]

Can you elaborate on your greenhouse? Its in the garage? Like indoors? If so, how warm does the garage stay? You will need to keep it above 60 for them to really keep growing well. Keeping them in temps below 50 or so will probably put them into a semi dormant state. And below 35 or so, you'll risk termination.

 

[BigCedar]

Can you elaborate on your greenhouse? Its in the garage? Like indoors? If so, how warm does the garage stay? You will need to keep it above 60 for them to really keep growing well. Keeping them in temps below 50 or so will probably put them into a semi dormant state. And below 35 or so, you'll risk termination.

Whattup Guru! No problem dude I'll shoot you a link.. Not the best GH but it was in my budget. I have 2, one outdoors and the other in the garage now.
http://www.lowes.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&cId=SEARCH&productId=3191829&cm_mmc=SCE_gps-_-gps-_-gps-_-SPRING%20GARDENER%207H%20x%206W%20x%208L%20Gable%20Greenhouse%20IS%2070608

The garage stays a good 25+ degrees when it's cold over outside temps.. Not including the GH temp with frost cloth and everything else I'm gonna cover it with.. I've been wanting to post this for awhile now on THP but haven't got around to it but I've seen everyone on this site and multiple other sites say peppers wont grow well if night temps are below 55 degrees F.. In MY opinion that is completely false to an extent. Sure they might grow better.. But around here night temps RARELY are above 55.. 50 for that matter. For example today it was 81degrees.. Right now.. its 12.20am and it's 47 degrees. And that is rare around here for night temps. My plants hit 40 even 38 degrees and never showed a sign of issues. I've grown hot peps for 4 years now and they tolerate the cold below 55 just fine.. I don't know if it's the humidity difference or what but they hold their own! This year our spring and most of our summer didn't exceed 70.. Pathetic and most night temps were in the very low 40's and my plants are a good 2 1/2 feet tall without the greenhouse.. Sure with the short season we have I'm bringing them inside but normally I don't have to. I'll be putting them in their garage home I'm guessing mid October and by then they should be covered in green healthy pods (why I decided to do the indoor greenhouse) All my hard work wouldn't pay off without it!

Btw... I had another ? about the lighting.. How close should the T5s be from the plants? I've read 8in on alot of sites but I figured I'd ask the THP experts

 

[Pepper-Guru]

Whattup Guru! No problem dude I'll shoot you a link.. Not the best GH but it was in my budget. I have 2, one outdoors and the other in the garage now.
http://www.lowes.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&cId=SEARCH&productId=3191829&cm_mmc=SCE_gps-_-gps-_-gps-_-SPRING%20GARDENER%207H%20x%206W%20x%208L%20Gable%20Greenhouse%20IS%2070608

The garage stays a good 25+ degrees when it's cold over outside temps.. Not including the GH temp with frost cloth and everything else I'm gonna cover it with.. I've been wanting to post this for awhile now on THP but haven't got around to it but I've seen everyone on this site and multiple other sites say peppers wont grow well if night temps are below 55 degrees F.. In MY opinion that is completely false to an extent. Sure they might grow better.. But around here night temps RARELY are above 55.. 50 for that matter. For example today it was 81degrees.. Right now.. its 12.20am and it's 47 degrees. And that is rare around here for night temps. My plants hit 40 even 38 degrees and never showed a sign of issues. I've grown hot peps for 4 years now and they tolerate the cold below 55 just fine.. I don't know if it's the humidity difference or what but they hold their own! This year our spring and most of our summer didn't exceed 70.. Pathetic and most night temps were in the very low 40's and my plants are a good 2 1/2 feet tall without the greenhouse.. Sure with the short season we have I'm bringing them inside but normally I don't have to. I'll be putting them in their garage home I'm guessing mid October and by then they should be covered in green healthy pods (why I decided to do the indoor greenhouse) All my hard work wouldn't pay off without it!

Btw... I had another ? about the lighting.. How close should the T5s be from the plants? I've read 8in on alot of sites but I figured I'd ask the THP experts

So, you basically bought a greenhouse and are using it indoors as a grow tent. I gotcha. Well, once you get things set up, you will see what Im talking about as far as what temps will do what to the plants. They won't die unless they go below freezing, just remember that Post your journal here when you get that operation going. Flouros...get em as close to the plants as you can...if you see any leaf scald bring em back a bit. I doubt you will, but just keep an eye out.