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soil Make Clay soil better....

Capsicum

Capsicum

Banned
Whats best to amend clay like soil with? Just want to hear what some of you do to get good tilth.

I have tried a number of things like:

1.cow manure compost/wood compost
2.just pine bark
3. pine bark/peatmoss
4.Organic compost

I have done this in different rows for my chilies with about 4 or so plants in each row and will see whcih works best.
 
gypsom breaks up clay.

adding sand or some variant helps with aeration, the problem with your mix although not bad is it doesnt have too much aeration properties to it but alot of water retention. just watch for salt burn and over watering.
 
What about the pine bark?Sand is small and I think pine bark might be better? I used gypsum.

When I dump water in the pine amended area the water sinks down really fast. I feel the best will be the pine bark. I know what you are saying about the compost holding in water but it really loosened the soil and I think it will increase the micro life in the soil, thus increasing air flow. I did not use too much compost. We will see which works best.

Anymore ideas?
 
only one direction to go with clay lol. as long as its draining on you then im sure you will be fine and Im interested in your experiment!
 
You are always looking to try and create loam. Which is a perfect amount of Clay/Soil/Organic matter. (fully decomposed compost, looks and smells like earth) (horse manure has a lot of wood in it as that is what 90% of it is. So you have to make sure it is fully decomposed or it will steal nitro from the soil)

Rich is right about the compost holding a lot of moisture and retaining water. You are right as well about the compost creating a high content of organic life/micro organisms and what not. It just takes a while for this to happen. Especially if you over till your garden. It breaks up all the good stuff that is going on in the garden.

I put 8 yards of horse compost in my 30X10 garden. Mine was near solid clay as well. It did loosen up the ground but it also holds a lot of moisture and seems to suffocate the plants a little. I don't know. Their are different kinds of sand that are good for the soil. The kind for kids sandbox is not what you want. The kind found on a beach is good stuff. It doesn't get hard and turn to a rock. You could add some of that as well.

something I want to try is getting lake sediment and tilling it in. I think this would work wonders in the garden. I will have to wait until next year to find out though....lol.

Good luck.
 
Of course any thread with the word clay peaks my interest! :)
I would love to know the differences in the Cali/western clay from the red clay I grow in?
I just love my GRC ,and personally dont think it can be made to be better!

:cool:
Kevin
 
3/5King said:
You are always looking to try and create loam. Which is a perfect amount of Clay/Soil/Organic matter. (fully decomposed compost, looks and smells like earth) (horse manure has a lot of wood in it as that is what 90% of it is. So you have to make sure it is fully decomposed or it will steal nitro from the soil)

Rich is right about the compost holding a lot of moisture and retaining water. You are right as well about the compost creating a high content of organic life/micro organisms and what not. It just takes a while for this to happen. Especially if you over till your garden. It breaks up all the good stuff that is going on in the garden.

I put 8 yards of horse compost in my 30X10 garden. Mine was near solid clay as well. It did loosen up the ground but it also holds a lot of moisture and seems to suffocate the plants a little. I don't know. Their are different kinds of sand that are good for the soil. The kind for kids sandbox is not what you want. The kind found on a beach is good stuff. It doesn't get hard and turn to a rock. You could add some of that as well.

something I want to try is getting lake sediment and tilling it in. I think this would work wonders in the garden. I will have to wait until next year to find out though....lol.

Good luck.
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Very true. It can take a long time for the microbes to take action in aerating the soil.

Lets see I just counted and I did 5 jalapeno in the only pine bark/ very little peat, and another 3 in just bark, and another 7 plants in the row I amended with a bag of "ASB Organic Compost" that looks like it is peat/composted material/sand. And then the row of Cayenne I did just today with only the horse manure compost/woodcompost. Expanded Shale sounds good too. I think I will do a row of just tilled native soil as well.

I just checked the soil in the row i did with the bag of ASB Organic Compost http://navigator.gar...prd=1753&pr=109 -looks like it is the best out of any of the rows I did. It is perfect!!!!

The rows with pine bark are ok but it is just claylike still and did not fill in enough, maybe the fine particals of sand and composted material really helps the clays really fine particals and can fill in easy and make the soil light.

This is the fisrt year I tried this greenworld organic compost and it looks like the best so far.

Capsicum said:
What about the pine bark?Sand is small and I think pine bark might be better? I used gypsum.

When I dump water in the pine amended area the water sinks down really fast. I feel the best will be the pine bark. I know what you are saying about the compost holding in water but it really loosened the soil and I think it will increase the micro life in the soil, thus increasing air flow. I did not use too much compost. We will see which works best.

Anymore ideas?
Click to expand...

So it looks like sand really helps when added with organic material.
 
Expanded shale is starting to get a lot of acknowledgement lately when it comes to soil. I recently just bought 80lbs of Gumbo Buster from a local landscape supplier that is expanded shale, some wonderful black compost, pH corrected, and no telling what else is in there... It's to be tilled in at a 1:1 ratio and supposed to permanently make the black gumbo clay here in Texas very useable for planting. Going to till everything on Saturday and shove some potted plants in there to see what happens...

-J
 
Torno said:
Expanded shale is starting to get a lot of acknowledgement lately when it comes to soil. I recently just bought 80lbs of Gumbo Buster from a local landscape supplier that is expanded shale, some wonderful black compost, pH corrected, and no telling what else is in there... It's to be tilled in at a 1:1 ratio and supposed to permanently make the black gumbo clay here in Texas very useable for planting. Going to till everything on Saturday and shove some potted plants in there to see what happens...

-J
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Where did you get it at bud, and how much $$$?
 
As a lifetime resident of Georgia, I'm well familiar with the challenges of growing in a tight clay like ours here.

Based on personal experience, I would forget about the sand and work some organic material into the clay if it is deficient in organic material. This will not only aid in the ability of the soil to hold and exchange nutrients but will help to open the soil up a little bit, make it more workable and stabilize the moisture retention properties to a degree. Once amended, check your pH and adjust as needed. The Chile plant will enjoy a mildly acidic soil in the area of 6.0-6.5. As posted above, clay really holds moisture well and avoid overwatering. Most chile plants, particularly chinense, respond well to less frequent watering.

I would not trade the clay soils around my place for sandy soil now that I've amended it and worked organic material into it for 12 years. It is naturally poor in nutrients but I can add that. Good luck with your efforts.

Slice 38
 
I've been battling our hard packed Idaho clay for eons, adding lots of organic materials every year. It still clings and won't drain well. I used shredded pine in the past, and it drains, but it does lock out the nitrogren. So thats a guessing game how much extra N to add to compensate until it decomposes and 'gives back.'

Gypsum works well to break the clay down, and there is a blend available here with extra sulfur to battle our extemely high pH local soil. It makes the soil more powdery and nutrients more available to be taken up by the plants, but still lacks good drainage, IMO.

For drainage, I went full court press this year, trying perlite, pumice, and a bentonite/quartz mix called Ultra Soil Conditioner. All are effective, but can be expensive. I used to get a bargain on perlite, but the rates really went up this year. Pumice is promising if you can get it in small enough diameter and by the bulk load. The Ultra is really cool stuff but takes a whole bag to do one raised bed. It was on sale so I scored a bunch $11/bag....Here's some info scroll down to the Ultra Soil Conditioner
 
woody3says said:
Torno said:
Expanded shale is starting to get a lot of acknowledgement lately when it comes to soil. I recently just bought 80lbs of Gumbo Buster from a local landscape supplier that is expanded shale, some wonderful black compost, pH corrected, and no telling what else is in there... It's to be tilled in at a 1:1 ratio and supposed to permanently make the black gumbo clay here in Texas very useable for planting. Going to till everything on Saturday and shove some potted plants in there to see what happens...

-J
Click to expand...
Where did you get it at bud, and how much $$$?
Click to expand...

What??? I never told you about this place??? Oh man I'm sorry I thought I told everyone I knew in the DFW area. The website is http://soilbuildingsystems.com/ and I got the 80lbs for I think 10.25 with tax. You can get a cubic yard for I think 50 delivered. I went out there yesterday and I was completely blown away at how massive that operation is. It's HUGE! I'll send you some pictures that I took out there.

-J
 
CarvinGuitarist said:
Capsicum said:
So it looks like sand really helps when added with organic material.
Click to expand...

I have read to NEVER put sand in clay soil here as it make concrete!
I would say work in whatever compost or soil amendments you can get and over time it will become more workable.
Click to expand...

See thats what I thought, same reason I never tried it in the past. This stuff I used has only some sand in it along with compost and wood material. seems to work ok.
 
I read that putting a layer of rocks in the bottom of a pot is supposed to help with drainage. Anybody know this to be true? Anywho I suppose it would depend on the type of clay and the amount used as to how well it will drain. Would adding ash or charcoal be a good idea to use in the clay mix to absorb excess water?
 
megahot said:
I read that putting a layer of rocks in the bottom of a pot is supposed to help with drainage. Anybody know this to be true? Anywho I suppose it would depend on the type of clay and the amount used as to how well it will drain. Would adding ash or charcoal be a good idea to use in the clay mix to absorb excess water?
Click to expand...

"I read that putting a layer of rocks in the bottom of a pot is supposed to help with drainage. Anybody know this to be true?"

It is a bad idea. The soil will fill in around the rocks making things worse. They make golf putting greens with a layer of rocks at the bottom, then a layer of finer rock, then gravel, then course sand. That way the fine material like the sand and topsoil will not fill in the pores with in the rocks below that pull water fom the surface of the green.

"Would adding ash or charcoal be a good idea to use in the clay mix to absorb excess water?"

I hear biochar is a great thing, having the ability to clean pollutants out of water and soil, it is good to use. It also will raise soil ph.
 
are you planting in pots or raised beds or in the ground? anyways sand doesnt make concrete, lime does but whatever way you want to look at it clay is just a particle size nothing more same with sand...its what made the clay that makes the difference. in any regards all you are trying to do is offset the clay enough to get it to loosen up and not bind. adding anything to it will help be it pearlite or pumice or organics or...whatever. really the only reason you would use pumice or pearlite vs sand is the weight issue of sand.

in any regards if adding sand makes concrete then adding organics like straw or pine needles makes adobe. add more sand like material or more organic material and the clay can not bind in any reasonable fashion to make concrete or adobe or brick or.... if your area is highly non porous and lacks any substantial drainage then go raised beds and just work the soil in the beds only allowing them to drain ontop of the clay earth. heck use straw bails as the base of your raised beds after you allow them to break down alittle.


megahot said:
I read that putting a layer of rocks in the bottom of a pot is supposed to help with drainage. Anybody know this to be true? Anywho I suppose it would depend on the type of clay and the amount used as to how well it will drain. Would adding ash or charcoal be a good idea to use in the clay mix to absorb excess water?
Click to expand...
yes adding any larger particle adds will drain more readily then smaller particles simply due to surface area...a small particle like clay has more surface area then sand which has more surface area then rock for water to stick to. adding ash in general is the same as gypsum in keeping clay from binding with itself generally speaking but in some instances may do more harm but then we are getting out of generally speaking scenarios
 
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