• Everything other than hot peppers. Questions, discussion, and grow logs. Cannabis grow pics are only allowed when posted from a legal juridstiction.

Hydroponic Tomatoes: Need Help

inolan22

inolan22

Hello All,
 
This is my first year trying out hydroponics.  I have read a lot of information and spoken with many members of THP this past year and finally put together a dutch bucket type system this year.
 
I am having a problem that I have not been able to find a remedy for quite yet.  I figured I would post to see if anyone might be able to help.
 
Here are some of my quick system vitals: (see pics below also)
 
1.  Dutch bucket system currently has 14 plants (3 bell peppers and 11 tomatoes).  The peppers do not seem to be affected by the same issue as the tomatoes. This system is currently setup inside in our "sun room" on the south side of our house.
2.  I have been using straight tap water as the base (well water).  The ppm of this water starts at around 330. I do not have a EC tester.
3.  My nutrient mix is using the following equal parts(by weight) MasterBlend 4-18-38 and Calcium Nitrate 15.5-0-0 along with 1/2 part Epsom Salts.  Overall ppm of the solution once the nutrients have been added is around 1300 - 1500.
4.  I try to maintain a pH just under 6.
5.  I have only had this setup going since around mid to late May.
6.  I have my pump on for 15 minutes 4 times a day.
 
Problem: Newer tomato leaves are wanting to curl up.
 
This I have tried so far.  None of which have really made a significant difference.
1. Full reservoir change.
2. The reservoir water didn't feel hot to the touch, but I tried adding a frozen bottle of water to cool it down a bit.
3. I read somewhere that too much nitrogen may cause this type of problem.  I dumped the reservoir and currently have just straight tap water in the system for the past 2 days.  No changes so far.
 
The plants have maintained a crazy rate of growth.  They have almost grown a foot in the past week, but I have not been able to get the new leaf growth to straighten out.
 
Pictures:
 
Setup:
IMG_5473_zpsefea0ff0.jpg

 
Tomato Leaf Curl 6/17.
IMG_5475_zpse4fbc6a7.jpg

 
Tomato Leaf Curl 6/23
IMG_5517_zps6dad5b10.jpg

 
Any suggestions would help greatly.
 
Thanks :)
 
clawing down, and balling up new growth means your EC is too low.
my rockwool toms needed about 2.4-3 ish EC runoff, to stop vegging like this, and start setting fruits.
 
there's a paper i have, when i get a chance ill find it and link it to you.

 
 
Plant Response
How do you know what is the right amount of fertilizer?
In addition to following the directions on the bag and taking
regular foliar analyses, the plant also gives an indication. If
tops of plants “ball up” with dense, curling-under growth,
the nutrient solution is a little high in nitrogen. Another sign
of having nitrogen too high is when the clusters of flowers
end in leaves or shoot growth (these should be pruned off).
This condition will not necessarily decrease yield unless
nitrogen is excessively high.
If  stem  diameter  is  extremely  small  and  plants  are
spindly,  fertilizer  concentration  is  too  low.  Other  signs
include faded or yellowed foliage, decreased vigor, blos-soms that don’t set fruit, and yield reduction. Other fertiliz-er deficiency symptoms are discussed in the section Nutrient
Deficiency Symptoms.
Click to expand...
 
 
http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1828.pdf
 
edit: basically, with mature toms, dont exceed like.... 200ish nitrogen, then push up the EC untill they stop vegging.
 
this works very well for myself... but i run a drip to waste, fertigation system.
this system might react differently, what with the recycling and all.
 
i had a paper that talked at legnth about the realtionship between toms and the fertilizer concentration etc, i cant find that one, if i do ill link it.
 
Thank you for the response.  That link looks very informative.  I will definitely have to read through it in greater detail later on.
 
It sounds like high nitrogen levels could be the culprit to my balling / curling problem.  I will leave the tap water to circulate for another day then replace with new nutrient solution (with less N).  It sounds like I need to get more detailed with how much of the individual components I am adding to the nutrient solution as well.

Thanks,
 
despite what you and most others have heard, your toms do not need a "flush", so i would stop the tap water asap, flushing will just starve them of nutrients.
 
i really wish i had that paper that described how conductivity effects the toms vegging, and flowering etc, but unfortunatly i cant lay my hands on it atm... its probably lost for the immediate future.
however, i have to reiterate... getting the correct conductivity is critical to stopping the massive growth, and getting them to pump out toms.
 
i make my own ferts, so its very easy for me to tweak almost anything i want to, with respsect to nitrogen etc.
 
what i would suggest, is that you get hydrobuddy. its a simple piece of software that replaced all the spreadsheets like saltmix.xls etc.
basically put in the target solution, select your available ingredients, and let it attempt a solution for you.
http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2013/02/the-first-free-hydroponic-nutrient-calculator-program-o.html
 
honestly, its not the best software, but its free, and its amazingly better than the "iterative" approach with saltmix. its very well coded, just not super intuitive imho. 
 
 
your masterblend fert should have a listed set of ingrediants, and % by weight. add all of this into hydrobuddy. + some potassium nitrate or what ever else you have. you may be able to hit a very good solution without anything, or you may need to buy an Lb of MKP DKP or what ever.... potassium chloride 
edit:
 
this is worth a read as well.. Min EC you want to hit is like 2. any lower, and they tend to  veg excessivly.
 
http://books.google.com/books?id=spOi7N2slikC&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=hydroponic+tomato+greenhouse+conductivity&source=bl&ots=ko3ang_TZH&sig=LahXweHHy2gOck9wC_hbSBJjuPI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=atipU9jZA4ScyASXvYKYAQ&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=hydroponic%20tomato%20greenhouse%20conductivity&f=false
 
I was wondering how your tomato's were doing, I have two in dwc "bubble buckets" on my back patio.  I am also using the same fert's suggested by Bobby @ mhpgardener.  
 
Hello all again.
 
It has been a very busy summer this year.  Not having much time to post.  I figured I would give a quick update on what went on with these tomatoes.  Overall I would consider my first hydro attempt a success. 
 
I had 14 buckets going with this system.  11 tomatoes and 3 bell peppers.  The tomatoes grew very big (almost too big to control).  I ended up only getting 1 tomato to produce.  I believe the main reason was due to nitrogen levels in the solution.  I did ween down the solution to where I was adding very little calcium nitrate but still didn't see much of a difference in tomato production.  I did get around 5-6 bell peppers from each plant (orange ones) and they tasted great.  I turned the system off about a week ago, and plan to clean everything up in the next week or so.
 
I don;t think I will be growing tomatoes indoors again, but stick to peppers since they don't get quite as big.  The next go around, I might need to either get my current well water tested to figure out what the composition is or figure out how to get a RO system to start with "plain" water.
 
Thank you all for the comments and help.  I look forward to the next go around.
 
inolan22 said:
Hello all again.
 
It has been a very busy summer this year.  Not having much time to post.  I figured I would give a quick update on what went on with these tomatoes.  Overall I would consider my first hydro attempt a success. 
 
I had 14 buckets going with this system.  11 tomatoes and 3 bell peppers.  The tomatoes grew very big (almost too big to control).  I ended up only getting 1 tomato to produce.  I believe the main reason was due to nitrogen levels in the solution.  I did ween down the solution to where I was adding very little calcium nitrate but still didn't see much of a difference in tomato production.  I did get around 5-6 bell peppers from each plant (orange ones) and they tasted great.  I turned the system off about a week ago, and plan to clean everything up in the next week or so.
 
I don;t think I will be growing tomatoes indoors again, but stick to peppers since they don't get quite as big.  The next go around, I might need to either get my current well water tested to figure out what the composition is or figure out how to get a RO system to start with "plain" water.
 
Thank you all for the comments and help.  I look forward to the next go around.
Click to expand...
hi, its all about conductivity of the runoff with tomatos. ask me how i know?







you need to push up the EC to like 3 - 4. then they stop vegging, and start pushing out long lovely trusses of flowers.

nitrogen should never exceed 200mg/l
 
queequeg152 said:
you need to push up the EC to like 3 - 4. then they stop vegging, and start pushing out long lovely trusses of flowers.

nitrogen should never exceed 200mg/l
Click to expand...
 
To do this with the masterblend from my other thread would I basically just stop adding the calcium nitrate and make a more concentrated 4-18-38 mix? 
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top