seeds Seedlings growing wierd leaves, unhealthy grow. Any guesses to as why this might be?

Coldgrowth · Feb 24, 2015

So.. Brazilian starfish, started 12th of january. Soil is just some normal potting soil, peat-based. Getting natural sunlight (west-facing window) and sometimes/often I supplement with a 15W LED, placed 60 cm above the plants (about 20-25"), during the evening/night

So basically.. dark leaves, and they appear curly, distorted from the moment the leaf appears at the stem.
Soil appears damp because I just threw in a few extra Brazilian starfish seeds in the same cup, as a backup plan, and just sprayed the top soil with a water mister.

I have already culled a few brazilian starfish's in the cup, that had similar issues. Only difference between this cup and the other plants (of which none has had similar issues), is that these grew quite leggy early on, so added ~3 cm (1") extra soil on top on this cup only. Otherwise watered similarly and such.
I am not experiencing a catastrophy, I have more than enough of other chili varieties. But I would like to know if anyone could help me identity the underlying cause, so that I can prevent similar issues in the future.

Personally I'd guess its some sort of light burn issue. But I can't really understand why that might be, none of the other chilis has issues, they barely get direct sunlight (scandinavian winter), and the grow light is only 15W, with good distance to the plant.

The rest of the chilis are doing great.

KrakenPeppers · Feb 24, 2015

Brazilian starfish plants are extremely tall thin plants and will out leg your other seedlings 3-4 times faster , they seem to always want more water and out of all my peppers seem to like lots more water than other varieties .

I never had any issues with my seedlings but they do look over fertalised, was the potting soil pre fertalised? The other thing I found with my starfish is they like less sun than other varieties and will grow much better than other variaities in undersized pots with less fertaliser ..

Not saying they don't grow better in a big pot but I have 4 plants 1.5 metres tall in 250mm pots and have 2 plants in 140mm pots that look way too big for them that are the same height and producing the same amount of pods lol.. Weirdest plants ever

If the potting mix is pre fertalised it might be too much for these varieties

sirex · Feb 24, 2015

First thing. Isolate those just in case its mites or some other pest. I had broad mites and had to isolate half of my plants. Come to think of it the leaves looked like that.

How does your new growth look? Do leaves formed shriveled like that?

Coldgrowth · Feb 24, 2015

by Romy6
Could it be mites? Could it also be too much NPK ? Last but not least root rot possibly ? Damn leaf curl is not always easy to diagnose

Root rot, doubtful. Kept them quite/very dry. I don't see any signs of mites, and I looked closely.
The NPK thing... That miiight be it, looking on the other comments!

by Mikeg
I'd have guessed a viral infection, but i don't recall reading of a virus transmitted by seeds.

I havnt heard about this either.. might be?

KrakenPeppers said:
Brazilian starfish plants are extremely tall thin plants and will out leg your other seedlings 3-4 times faster , they seem to always want more water and out of all my peppers seem to like lots more water than other varieties .

I never had any issues with my seedlings but they do look over fertalised, was the potting soil pre fertalised? The other thing I found with my starfish is they like less sun than other varieties and will grow much better than other variaities in undersized pots with less fertaliser ..

Not saying they don't grow better in a big pot but I have 4 plants 1.5 metres tall in 250mm pots and have 2 plants in 140mm pots that look way too big for them that are the same height and producing the same amount of pods lol.. Weirdest plants ever

If the potting mix is pre fertalised it might be too much for these varieties

The soil was pre-fertilized, yes. But the upper 5cm was coco coir, unfertilized. Guess this might be the case. The early growth was fine, and is for its smaller brother next to it as well. But as they got bigger, issues arised... Might very well be!
Though the soil was exactly the same for all the other cups, gues brazilian starfish might respond differently to NPK.

sirex said:
First thing. Isolate those just in case its mites or some other pest. I had broad mites and had to isolate half of my plants. Come to think of it the leaves looked like that.

How does your new growth look? Do leaves formed shriveled like that?

Took your advice, and I'm keeping it away from the others. Yes the new growth does appear like that, see picture

So, I can consider this a case of too much NPK in the prefertilized soil for the liking of Brazilian Starfish (which seem very sensitive compared to all of my other varieties!)

How do I fix this? Transplant the plant into new, unfertilized soil? Flush the soil?

KrakenPeppers · Feb 24, 2015

I would, I never had an issue with multiple transplanting early on..

I just use seed raising mix now, I found it better than choir pods and can utilise it till transferring into a bigger pot..enough water retainer without being wet, loose for good root ventilation and good enough to grow my seeds put till 3-4 real leave set..

brazilian SF grow real quick and with minimal branches so it might be worth going straight into the end pot you want for them, the pods will easily over balance a small pot .. I have to lean mine against a wall to support in the 140mm ones. In the 250mm I have all the branches tied together to support the weight ..

My Brazilians seem to like being tucked in the corner of my hot house witch gets about 4 hours light day, I had some in open air full sun and it went yellow and wouldn't change back until it got shade.. And pods were narrow and dry, pods I. The hothouse shaded ones were thick and juicy

sirex · Feb 24, 2015

I say mites. But I just had mites so.... I would be inclined to think that.

Coldgrowth · Feb 26, 2015

So I will try to repot the brazilian starfish.

In case it is broad mites, how should I treat that? Read in the sticky that warm water can kill the mites, that would be a simple "just in case" procedure to do.

Jamison · Feb 26, 2015

Honestly I would just trash that seedlimg and start over with it. I know it seems horrible but sometimes you gotta do it.

John1234 · Feb 26, 2015

Cold temperatures, broad mites and herbicide residue can give similar distorted growth. Judging on location, I would lean towards temperature or perhaps herbicide damage.

Coldgrowth · Feb 26, 2015

I will sow a new brazilian starfish. However I just checked my other chilies.

I never had experience with broad mites. I just now looked closely at some of my other chilies, and noticed this.
I saw this on both my jalapeno and my goats weed, which is the new leaves appearing 'folded' in an unusual manner. It was hard to get a proper picture of.

I have never had the pleasure to enjoy the compagny of broad mites before, but I think this is an indication that broad mites might actually be the cause of the distorted growth?

Anyway, followed the advice of the pest thread, and soaked the plants in 44-46 degrees celsius warm water (upside down, so soil didnt get too wet). The plants on which I had spotted folded leaves got about 10-15 minutes under - and since I was at it, I gave the rest of the plants a couple of minutes of soaking as well.

Should I follow up with some soap spray of some sort?

Also.. I do have acces to labs, I guess I could grab a leaf and go check it in a microscope.

EDIT:
forgot to answer posts. Temperatures are about 18-22 degrees, so I doubt it is due to cold. Also isolated the affected seedlings in bags, and started new - just keeping the old in case they 'get well' and to see if my treatments do any good.

Terravexti · Feb 26, 2015

It looks like mites or even aphids. The little insects like the newest growth. Left curl is hard to diagnose.

sirex · Feb 26, 2015

Let us know if you see anything under that microscope

Lovepeppers · Mar 2, 2015

I had russet mites confirmed by UC Davis plant pathology. Yes my leaves looked like yours. You will not be able to see broad/russet mites with the naked eye. You will need a microscope. I purchased a 120x on amazon for 15.00. Anyways if you have mites. Buy sulfur dust and a duster. I used 8 pounds on my yard and neighbors. (oops!)
I still dust every few weeks. Ive turned trigger happy.

Coldgrowth · Mar 2, 2015

ok so an update.

Took a few damaged new leaves of the Brazilian starfish, and stuck them under a microscope. Notice I removed the leaves AFTER a 10-15min soaking in ~45 degrees (which was how I found to kill potential broad mites).

Saw nothing moving. Noticed these.. oval/elongated opague thingies (upper left corner), unsure if it is something foreign or maybe just the "hairs" of the chili plant.

Also, there has been new growth on the Brazilian starfish after the 45C temperature treatment!

And some of the other plants are still triving

Others appear to have been basically killed, I guess by the 45C temperature treatment... Annoying as hell, but I've sowed some new to make up for it...

I'm a bit at a loss on how I should reflect upon my actions, and I don't really feel like I've learned how to deal with this better in the future... Sure, it might have been/still be broad mites. And MAYBE the 45C temperature killed the mites. But apparently the temperature also killed about ½ my plants.

Oh well, as I said, I've sowed some new seeds and I'm feeling confident that I'll be able to keep SOMETHING alive for the entire season!

sirex · Mar 2, 2015

Want to see the difference between my mite plants and non mite plants?

Non mite plants in 3 gallon pots (potted up today)

Mite plants after treatment and pruning and stripping of bad leaves ( done about two weeks ago hence the new growth ) you can see my good plants to the right in the larger containers

So yeah it might set you back a little bit but your guys will bounce back with some light, water and love !

Coldgrowth · Mar 2, 2015

@Sirex
That looks great, how did you combat the mites?

Thanks anyway, brings me hope

sirex · Mar 2, 2015

Started with liquid sulphur. Then I hit them with abamectin. Nothing survives that shit.

Lovepeppers · Mar 2, 2015

@coldgrowth
If you are in the states, ucdavis plant pathology offers free testing. I emailed hung doan and sent a sample and had diagnosis in two days. So far I have no signs of mites.

Coldgrowth · Mar 18, 2015

So just some sort of update.
The aforementioned Brazilian starfish, which had wierd leaves. Well. It is still growing wierd leaves!

Now, I'm not much closer to identifying the issue. I had sowed some more brazilian starfish for my parents, and theirs (completely seperate from mine) looked like this. They have the exact same issue on ONE of the plants, but the other, 1 cm away, no issue there:

So I'd say I'm pretty sure it ain't mites. Maybe virus, maybe some mutant genetics, I don't know.

Also, the 44-47 celsius how water treatment.. Well it set back/killed quite a few of my plants, but they are now slowly bouncing back. No signs of pests.

All in all I'll consider it a somewhat happy ending! Thanks for all your inputs!

PS: be careful if attempting to best mites by hot water dipping of the plants!

bucdout57 · Jul 12, 2015

Any updates on your plants what was the solution?