Stunted growth and curled leaves, couple of theories

future_man · Apr 27, 2015

I started my seedlings (reapers, bolivian rainbows, lemon drops and tomatos) in a cupboard under one 110 W CFR on 23th of february and by today my plants look like in the pictures below. It is clear that under optimal circumstances they should be bigger by now! They also developed upward curled leaves that are miscolored. I wan't to avoid such bad results next year so I am thinking of possible reasons for such bad growth and I hope you guys can help me out here.

1.) Bad soil, I have a mixture of peat moss, vermiculite and coco peat. I suspect coco peat is the culprit as the soil is really dense and due to clear plastic cups I can see the soil is still damp at the bottom even after 1 week of watering!

2.) Bad lights, I realize I my plants are somewhat spindly and they even changed colors due to tan from my CFR light but I moved them on window sill and they remain like this. Could lights be the reason they are messed up? I have them under full sunshine during the day now for a past couple of weeks.

3.) Temperature, temperatures aren't optimal yet with night temps still under 50° F here. I have them inside during the nights though.

4.) Nutrients, very unlikely as I flushed my soil (which was NPK rich at the start) and waited for 2 sets of new leaves after feeding them with algae organic fertilizer.

I know they will kick off when it gets more sunny, hot here. I can see new leaves growing. I just wan't a proper head start next season!

moruga welder · Apr 27, 2015

definitely need some perlite in there my friend , they don't like cold wet feet . you need to acclimate them to the sun 1 hour , 2 hours , 3hours etc, each day . about ten days their ready to roll .

future_man · Apr 27, 2015

moruga welder said:
they don't like cold wet feet .

I thought as much. They do however have the same amount of perlite than last year, this is why it must be this new coco peat it just retains too much water! About the sun I think they are ready with all that tan

moruga welder · Apr 27, 2015

yes coco holds too much moisture . need sphagnum

moruga welder said:
yes coco holds too much moisture . need sphagnum

also i use 1/3 perlite in mix , i like to see the water come out some what quickly . i have to water a little more often but they like to be on the dry side .

slade122 · Apr 27, 2015

I'm growing in 70% coco and 30% perlite, and I have no issues with it (coco) holding too much moisture. I don't think the coco is the problem.

I'd aim more at lack of proper drainage (needs perlinte) or overwatering, and not enough light.

At 50 degrees, the plants are just slow, not sad looking, and it's probably not nutrients at this stage unless your soil has literally nothing in it.

mpicante · Apr 27, 2015

At the top you stated you were using Vermiculite.This isn't the same as perlite.Vermiculite retains moisture whereas perlite does not.I'd use perlite to help with drainage.The plants are alive so that's good.I think they need or needed more light and a little less water.

future_man · Apr 27, 2015

mpicante said:
I think they need or needed more light and a little less light.

So which is it now

? Yes I use vermiculite which is a type of rock treated at high temperatures, it then pops like popcorn and it retain water. Perlite is just a rock? Can I get it in every good garden store?

mpicante · Apr 27, 2015

Yes perlite is found everywhere.It is available in different sizes as well.If you have a fertilizer-landscaper-garden supplier near you it will be substantially cheaper.

suchen · Apr 27, 2015

I can pick up 4 cu ft. of perlite at the local hydroponics near me for $20. Sometimes on sale for $15 in the spring. Smaller amounts cost proportionately more.

mpicante · Apr 27, 2015

Cheapest price yet!if you can find a builders supply it's cheaper than nursery suppliers.

John1234 · Apr 27, 2015

slade122 said:
I'm growing in 70% coco and 30% perlite, and I have no issues with it (coco) holding too much moisture. I don't think the coco is the problem.

I'd aim more at lack of proper drainage (needs perlinte) or overwatering, and not enough light.

At 50 degrees, the plants are just slow, not sad looking, and it's probably not nutrients at this stage unless your soil has literally nothing in it.

I'd second the overwatering. The 'maters look limp and one of the plants looks to be damping off.

suchen · Apr 27, 2015

future_man said:
I thought as much. They do however have the same amount of perlite than last year, this is why it must be this new coco peat it just retains too much water! About the sun I think they are ready with all that tan

How often do you water? I have found for my setup that under the growlight with no fan, watering any more than once every 5-8 days was too much.

future_man · Apr 28, 2015

suchen said:
How often do you water? I have found for my setup that under the growlight with no fan, watering any more than once every 5-8 days was too much.

I water once every 2 weeks.

future_man · Apr 28, 2015

So should I use vermiculite or perlite? Or both?

suchen · Apr 28, 2015

Sounds indeed like the soil is the culprit then. It is holding way too much water. You could mix the soil you currently have with 1/3 that volume of perlite. So if you have 3 cu ft. of soil currently, mix in 1 cu ft. of perlite. That will greatly increase your drainage and possibly save your plants if they haven't already been killed by damping off.

future_man · May 2, 2015

Should I remove vermiculite (retains water) in the future or add both vermiculite and perlite (drains water)? Or add only perlite? To me it sounds like using coco peat, adding only perlite is the better option.

John1234 · May 2, 2015

Perlite tends to be the better choice unless you live in a very dry area and conserve water.

future_man · May 2, 2015

I was thinking, is it possible that my lightning screwed my plants and gave it too much tan? My plants were purple after all. Maybe because they had all this tan they couldn't absorb the real sunshine and that's why some leaves just fell off...

D3monic · May 2, 2015

Too wet, next time don't use vermiculite.

Perlite doesn't retain moisture or anything. It's more like a styrofoam (but not) and used to give soil more drainage capability. Also making it so roots can more readily penetrate soil. Do you have drain holes in your cups ?

future_man · May 3, 2015

D3monic said:
Too wet, next time don't use vermiculite.

Perlite doesn't retain moisture or anything. It's more like a styrofoam (but not) and used to give soil more drainage capability. Also making it so roots can more readily penetrate soil. Do you have drain holes in your cups ?

I do have drain holes but the problem must be all the moisture stuck in my coco peat.