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Lessons from the Pepper Testing Lab: Lesson 1

1tom2go

1tom2go

First, I test the heat of peppers every day for a living.  Please don't ask me where on this thread, just look at my profile or PM me.  I also grow and love the products that are made from them.  
 
Second, I would like to share some of the cool things I notice at work that the super-hot pepper community may like to know or learn with me.  So, here is the first of what I hope are many great discussions about the testing of peppers for heat and the facts about the process.
 
So if you don't mind I would like to start with a common scenario:
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You bought the Primo seeds, grew up the plants, protected them with your body during hail storms, fed them better than your kids, and finally that green pod turned a deep red with a mean tail and it was harvest time.  You know it's hot because your still hurting from eating one 2 days ago, but you want to test it in a lab to see how hot it really is.  You heard that it should be over a million Scoville Heat Units (SHUs).
 
So you send a dozen fresh Primo pods to the lab for SHU testing and the lab sends you an email and says the results are in:  206,000 SHU.  
 
You send an email to the lab: "What the hell is wrong with you people?  These are very hot peppers and should be over 1 million!  I hope you forget to wash your hands before going pee!" 
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So, What happened here?  What are your thoughts and has this happened to you?  
 
 
 
 
1tom2go said:
I hope you forget to wash your hands before going pee!" 
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D3monic said:
Did you, did you forget to wash your hands?...because in my experience unless you're wearing gloves it doesn't matter how well you wash them. It's still going to burn. 
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I forgot how bad it feels. Until like 5 minutes ago. It's bad. And yes, washing hands doesn't help.
 
Datil said:
 

The tests are usually not performed on DRIED material?

Cya
Datil
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The labs can test fresh peppers that are pureed as well as mashes, sauces, salsas, etc.   It can be wet or dry.  As long as we can extract the capsaicinoids out of it into solution we can test it.  We've even done cheese. 

danish said:
Too many peppers?
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No, you can send as many peppers as you want, but we only take a small 2 gram or less sample (after mixing the whole batch) to do the actual test from the large amount you send.  Everything is ground or pureed as fine as possible also.
 
MisterBigglesworth said:
The pods were not pure Primos?   
 
 
 
 
 
This is great stuff, thanks for posting.
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These pods are the real deal straight from Troy himself and hot as hell.  This isn't a trick question as much as thinking about the way all the super-hot's are tested versus this story.
 
ribbedturtleneck said:
Capsaicin peaks during ripening, and has started to decline since.
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Nope, thanks for the idea though.  This is true from what I hear, but only a percent or 2.
 
Calibration was off or a rare time when a few pods were very low on the scale and threw off the overall average to a very low number. My current Primos will melt metal. 
 
A shot in the dark here, but this is the best I can come up with:
 
You tested a dozen of "my" peppers all mashed together in one test. Pepper heat can vary dramatically across even a single plant. The number I get back in my report is the average across the pepper pods. What you should have done is test each pepper individually so that I could take the hottest pepper and publish this at the SHU for the entire plant. In essence, If I have a large enough outlier I could use that pepper to prove my super hot plant, even though the majority of the peppers coming off of it would be considered just "hot". 
 
Either that or....your machine is broken!  ;)
 
TW
 
pa1966stang said:
A shot in the dark here, but this is the best I can come up with:
 
You tested a dozen of "my" peppers all mashed together in one test. Pepper heat can vary dramatically across even a single plant. The number I get back in my report is the average across the pepper pods. What you should have done is test each pepper individually so that I could take the hottest pepper and publish this at the SHU for the entire plant. In essence, If I have a large enough outlier I could use that pepper to prove my super hot plant, even though the majority of the peppers coming off of it would be considered just "hot". 
 
Either that or....your machine is broken!  ;)
 
TW
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Ah ha!  Stirring the pot is good!  
 
OK hint for you all:  think about the difference in dry and fresh peppers and that unlocks another dimension or scale I might say.  
One more hint:  the lab report is correct and when the customer hears the explaination he/she realizes this is true.

Maybe another hint:  Fresh pods, not dried.
 
I'm going to say harvesting peppers after rains or heavy water. pods are retaining a lot of water and that significantly dilutes sample. 
 
1tom2go said:
 
Ah ha!  Stirring the pot is good!  
 
OK hint for you all:  think about the difference in dry and fresh peppers and that unlocks another dimension or scale I might say.  

One more hint:  the lab report is correct and when the customer hears the explaination he/she realizes this is true.

Maybe another hint:  Fresh pods, not dried.
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Capsaicin leaks from fresh pods during transit or testing, but dried pods have it locked in place better?
I think it's either that or dilution.
 
I think it has to do with the moisture content in a fresh pepper vs a dried pepper.  I am assuming the test measures lets say a gram of material.  A dried pod would be all pepper.  A fresh pod has 3/4 of a gram of water to a 1/4 of actual pepper.
 
So in this example, the pepper in question would measure 824k shu dry.  That is using the .75/.25 ratio.  It is probably even more severe than that.

For example I just picked up 2 T. Scorpion pods I had.  They were very similarly sized pods at one time.  One is fresh, the other is dried.  The fresh one weighed 12g.  The dried weighed 2g.

Edit:  Scenario 2...  Depends on where they tested the pod.  The tip might be 206k, the ribs might be 2.06m.
 
Scuba_Steve said:
I think it has to do with the moisture content in a fresh pepper vs a dried pepper.  I am assuming the test measures lets say a gram of material.  A dried pod would be all pepper.  A fresh pod has 3/4 of a gram of water to a 1/4 of actual pepper.
 
So in this example, the pepper in question would measure 824k shu dry.  That is using the .75/.25 ratio.  It is probably even more severe than that.

For example I just picked up 2 T. Scorpion pods I had.  They were very similarly sized pods at one time.  One is fresh, the other is dried.  The fresh one weighed 12g.  The dried weighed 2g.

Edit:  Scenario 2...  Depends on where they tested the pod.  The tip might be 206k, the ribs might be 2.06m.
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WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!
 
You got it...The Primo peppers are about 85% water and so 15% actual pepper.  So, if you send in fresh peppers they will be a lot lower than you expect because of the water.
For example, if you have a fresh Reaper pod that is 2,000,000 SHU dried, a fresh pod has all that water in it so it will be only 15% of that dry value.  A fresh Reaper pod then will be 300,000 SHU because 2,000,000 multiplied by 0.15 (15%) = 300,000 SHU.  
 
If you have the fresh pod value from the lab, then you can calculate the dry value by dividing the value by 0.15.  For example, the lab tells you your freshly pureed Reaper is 120,000 SHU, then you know that the dried value can be estimated:  120,000 divided by 0.15 = 800,000.
 
So...A dried pepper may be 1.4 million SHU, but when it's a whole fresh pod it measures at 210,000 SHU.  Some one above mentioned this issue in one word...
 
D3monic said:
...that significantly dilutes sample. 
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 DILUTION.  
 
The industry standard for measuring heat of hot and super-hot peppers is dried, so that's why the numbers are so high.  Don't be caught off guard when you test your Reaper Butt-Leaker sauce made from fresh peppers, vinegar, etc. and it only test in the lab at 70,000 SHU!   
 
Does that make sense?  
 
Absolutely!  and I was leaning towards the dilution theory. 
 
Thanks for posting this scenario and explanation.  I wasn't sure how testing was done on fresh and dried chiles.   
 
 
and now we have another point of contention when someone claims to have the NextHottestPepperInTheWorld!!!
  :banghead:  but was your sample tested fresh or dried?  :banghead:
  :lol:
 
 
This theory of dilution also goes to the YouTubers posting about injesting 16mil capsaicin powder.  They dissolve the powder in an ounce or 2 of liquor then take a few drops.  The solution they are tasting is not 16mil SHU.  It's diluted by whatever ratio of alcohol:capsaicin they used. 
 
So do you think ASTA pungency units is a more accurate way of measuring heat? Seems a little inaccurate if the standard of measurement deals in dry units when your talking about fruit no?
 
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