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The original purebreds. The wolves.

E

elchris76

Another newbie question? I'm thinking about the ancestry of superhots. Ok so let's compare peppers to dogs. And I'm no dog expert either so forgive this silliness. But ok "the Spotted Poodle: a cross between the Dalmatian and the Poodle, may dethrone the current world's funkiest dog the Carolina Retriever."

So I get that you can then stabilize the new breed and then cross it with yet another newly created breed, but where did it all begin?

In other words, before man began breeding dogs (in my imagination) there were grey wolves, brown wolves, and white wolves which were naturally occurring breeds that could reproduce except they lived on different continents. Then man came along and helped them make sweet sweet intercontinental love...

If I'm making no sense that's okaleedokalee [emoji106]

Anyhoo, before man existed there were hot peppers (I'm assuming). So...and I'm thinking narrowly about the very hot peppers here.

What were the wolves of the very hot pepper world before man started mixing and matching?

Was the habañero naturally occurring or did our ancestors create it as they created corn? Hmm?

Anyone know the natural history of the hot pepper? I bet there's a good book about this somewhere? If you know lay it on me. I'd dig reading it.

So what can you tell me? What were the wolves of the hot pepper world from the various continents prior to man?


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Like anything interracial lovin has its perks. In the case of peppers you have bees and birds and humans in the mix. We still have loads of "wild" peppers that we cultivate. World travelers would seek "spice" and often trade peppers, dried peppers, and even seeds. Botonists would isolate to keep strains pure, but nature had other things in mind. Nature wanted to watch you squirm and yell "PHUCK THATS HOT AS HELL". There also were demented folks like us here at THP that wanted to breed the hottest pepper on the planet. The end result is a playing field of peppers not unlike the island of misfit toys.
 
From https://www.sbnature.org/crc/332.html

Most cultivated peppers – mild bells to hot jalapeños – are the fruits from different varieties of one plant species, Capsicum annuum. Closely related are Capsicum frutescens, from which Tabasco sauce is made, and C. chinense, the source of the scorchingly hot habanero or Scotch bonnet chile. Two other South American domesticated species are seldom seen in this country. In all, there are some 27 species of Capsicum, about half of which have been used by humans. All Capsicum species are members of the nightshade family, as are tobacco, tomatoes, potatoes, and eggplant.

Although they first evolved south of Amazonia, chile seeds have been found in cultural deposits more than 9000 years old in the Tehuacan Valley, Mexico.

Ok, so it all started in the Amazon. Awesome! Thank you rain forest!


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Rymerpt said:
Like anything interracial lovin has its perks. In the case of peppers you have bees and birds and humans in the mix. We still have loads of "wild" peppers that we cultivate. World travelers would seek "spice" and often trade peppers, dried peppers, and even seeds. Botonists would isolate to keep strains pure, but nature had other things in mind. Nature wanted to watch you squirm and yell "PHUCK THATS HOT AS HELL". There also were demented folks like us here at THP that wanted to breed the hottest pepper on the planet. The end result is a playing field of peppers not unlike the island of misfit toys.
Click to expand...
Awesome!


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Truth is............nobody really knows exactly but we can summise.  In Mexico they domesticated mostly Capsicum annuum.  Somehow, from tepins and pequins they arrived at things like poblanos and jalapenos.  Mutations that would never have been selected for in the wild because no bird would try and eat it - that's most wilds are so small - bird distributed.  Not to say that the mutants wouldn't have survived in the wild.  They probably could but the process was hastened by people selecting for their specific needs.
 
In Amazonia wild C. chinense with little berries were the order of the day - very similar to the C. annuum story in Mexico.  And people selected what they wanted.  Meanwhile down in Trinidad............someone smoked way too much ganja and preferred evil hot peppers.  True dat.
 
RobStar said:
Truth is............nobody really knows exactly but we can summise.  In Mexico they domesticated mostly Capsicum annuum.  Somehow, from tepins and pequins they arrived at things like poblanos and jalapenos.  Mutations that would never have been selected for in the wild because no bird would try and eat it - that's most wilds are so small - bird distributed.  Not to say that the mutants wouldn't have survived in the wild.  They probably could but the process was hastened by people selecting for their specific needs.
 
In Amazonia wild C. chinense with little berries were the order of the day - very similar to the C. annuum story in Mexico.  And people selected what they wanted.  Meanwhile down in Trinidad............someone smoked way too much ganja and preferred evil hot peppers.  True dat.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I had assumed that it was in Mexico that the strong hot chiles were first bred. So it was Trinidad. They were also C. chinense correct? Is the first very hot pepper still in existence as a cultivated variety? I really enjoy learning about this stuff :)

Cool to think about what a sad sight Thai food must have been before they got there hands on chiles!


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