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I've been fermenting fataliis for almost a month and this pinkish cloudy thing appeared. Is it safe to consume or did something go wrong?


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#1 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 09:05 AM


779f009fee298acc6bee1b18a826f4a4.jpg

48b16472fccafa378c1bf9092811ba8e.jpg


Edited by ThePizzaMonster, 03 May 2018 - 09:06 AM.


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#2 emanphoto

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 11:46 PM

What's in the jar?  Recipe?  Can't really comment till we know what you did.



#3 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 03 May 2018 - 11:51 PM

What's in the jar?  Recipe?  Can't really comment till we know what you did.


I put about 20 fataliis split in half and 3 cloves of garlic in a 5% brine. It’s got a weight so nothing floats and I’m using an airlock. It’s been almost 4 weeks. It doesn’t smell bad and it’s still bubbling. I measured the pH of the brine at about 5.


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#4 emanphoto

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:05 AM

Hmm that all seems correct in your process as long as you did a boiling water rinse before adding everything.  

 

The one thing I'd worry about is the pH being 5.  Ideally food safe pH is 4 so 4 pH or lower would be the target.  My present ferment is 3.2-3.4 with 3% salt, closed lids but air circulates in the bottle, I open them and stir almost daily.  

 

I'd wait to hear from others here as some posters asking similar questions were told to dump, whereas mine is considered OK kahm yeast.   See more here on my exploits.  http://thehotpepper....pic/68076-mold/



#5 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:11 AM

Hmm that all seems correct in your process as long as you did a boiling water rinse before adding everything.  
 
The one thing I'd worry about is the pH being 5.  Ideally food safe pH is 4 so 4 pH or lower would be the target.  My present ferment is 3.2-3.4 with 3% salt, closed lids but air circulates in the bottle, I open them and stir almost daily.  
 
I'd wait to hear from others here as some posters asking similar questions were told to dump, whereas mine is considered OK kahm yeast.   See more here on my exploits.  http://thehotpepper....pic/68076-mold/


I didn’t do a boiling water rinse since it was my understanding that for fermentation washing it with soap is enough. I’ll wait to hear from other posters. Thanks!

#6 emanphoto

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:21 AM

Yeah that boiled water rinse may or may not be necessary but I do it anyway as I'm making a lot to pass on to others.  We hate to see our hard work get trashed by molds!

I have a friend who makes fantastic cheeses from nuts and has to boil the cheese cloths they use to prevent molds.  Even so, she'll get some mold which she just scrapes off during the ferment.  Loss of a little volume beats dumping a batch as nuts are pricey.

Also a note in prevention is refrigeration after the first week of fermenting.  I was getting kahm yeast daily due to the year round hot weather here.  

Refrigeration stopped that.  

This batch smells nice and spicy and yeasty.   May 10 will mark this batch's 30th day and time for the final process of sauce making.  I think. ;)

 

 

I didn’t do a boiling water rinse since it was my understanding that for fermentation washing it with soap is enough. I’ll wait to hear from other posters. Thanks!

 


Edited by emanphoto, 04 May 2018 - 12:22 AM.


#7 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 12:41 AM

Yeah that boiled water rinse may or may not be necessary but I do it anyway as I'm making a lot to pass on to others.  We hate to see our hard work get trashed by molds!
I have a friend who makes fantastic cheeses from nuts and has to boil the cheese cloths they use to prevent molds.  Even so, she'll get some mold which she just scrapes off during the ferment.  Loss of a little volume beats dumping a batch as nuts are pricey.
Also a note in prevention is refrigeration after the first week of fermenting.  I was getting kahm yeast daily due to the year round hot weather here.  
Refrigeration stopped that.  
This batch smells nice and spicy and yeasty.   May 10 will mark this batch's 30th day and time for the final process of sauce making.  I think. ;)
 
 
 

Temperature may be an issue. It’s about 85 here all year round. Isn’t the fridge way too cold for fermentation?


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#8 SmokenFire

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:48 PM

Looks like Kham yeast to me, but the pictures are not clear so it's difficult to be certain. Too much head space could be the culprit.  


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
I would love to travel to your castle to roam the land,eat pie and hunt woman. - sicman
 
 

#9 emanphoto

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 09:30 PM

Looks like Kham yeast to me, but the pictures are not clear so it's difficult to be certain. Too much head space could be the culprit.  

Maybe I misunderstood what he means by weights. I assumed that meant he had something covering the surface.

Have you had success with this method before pizzamonster?

Again my main concern would be the high pH after 4 weeks.

 

What is your intended fermentation duration?


Edited by emanphoto, 04 May 2018 - 10:02 PM.


#10 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:24 PM

Looks like Kham yeast to me, but the pictures are not clear so it's difficult to be certain. Too much head space could be the culprit.  

 

Can Kahm yeast be that color? I'll try to take a better picture tomorrow. Should I just fill the jar with brine if I don't have enough peppers to fill it?

 

Maybe I misunderstood what he means by weights. I assumed that meant he had something covering the surface.

Have you had success with this method before pizzamonster?

Again my main concern would be the high pH after 4 weeks.

 

What is your intended fermentation duration?

 

I have glass weights to push the peppers down, it's not completely covered. Maybe I should put a cabbage leaf under the weights next time.

 

This is my second time doing it. The first time I stopped at two weeks and it looked like this one did at two weeks.

 

What pH would you expect after 4 weeks? I intend to stop it exactly at 4 weeks, now it's at 26 days. 



#11 emanphoto

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:29 PM

 

Can Kahm yeast be that color? I'll try to take a better picture tomorrow. Should I just fill the jar with brine if I don't have enough peppers to fill it?

 

 

I have glass weights to push the peppers down, it's not completely covered. Maybe I should put a cabbage leaf under the weights next time.

 

This is my second time doing it. The first time I stopped at two weeks and it looked like this one did at two weeks.

 

What pH would you expect after 4 weeks? I intend to stop it exactly at 4 weeks, now it's at 26 days. 

 

Addressing your issue, I'm not sure what to to advise but the funky stuff is a concern and someone more knowledgeable than me should step in to comment.  My kahm yeast looked like this.  After it showed up a few days in a row, it all went into the fridge and no issues since then.  I did scrape some out and I put aside some of those scrapings to see what happens to it on it's own.

 

 

IMG_2976_1.jpg
 

I am curious about fermentation duration in general at this point.  Lot of info on this page http://thehotpepper....ic-heavy/page-5 but all the photos are lost via the jerks at photobucket.

 

Mine mash pH is at 3.4 -. 3.2 after less than a month.  

IMG_3052_1.jpg
 

30 days is coming up and that's when I want to cook, sauce and bottle it as I don't have the time to let these go for months on end and no real benefit from doing that from I've read here on THP.  I'm all ears as to any benefits to extended ferment periods past 30 days.



#12 emanphoto

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:33 PM

also check out this

http://thehotpepper....92-sterilizing/



#13 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:21 AM

 
Addressing your issue, I'm not sure what to to advise but the funky stuff is a concern and someone more knowledgeable than me should step in to comment.  My kahm yeast looked like this.  After it showed up a few days in a row, it all went into the fridge and no issues since then.  I did scrape some out and I put aside some of those scrapings to see what happens to it on it's own.
 
 

 
I am curious about fermentation duration in general at this point.  Lot of info on this page http://thehotpepper....ic-heavy/page-5 but all the photos are lost via the jerks at photobucket.
 
Mine mash pH is at 3.4 -. 3.2 after less than a month.  

 
30 days is coming up and that's when I want to cook, sauce and bottle it as I don't have the time to let these go for months on end and no real benefit from doing that from I've read here on THP.  I'm all ears as to any benefits to extended ferment periods past 30 days.


I’m confused when you say scrape, the stuff in my fermentation is just floating around, I can’t literally scrape it, it moves around in the brine. Does that sound like Kahm yeast? Do you always do mashes? I’d try lowering the temperature next time but I can’t get 70 degrees anywhere in my house.

#14 SmokenFire

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 01:19 PM

I’m confused when you say scrape, the stuff in my fermentation is just floating around, I can’t literally scrape it, it moves around in the brine. Does that sound like Kahm yeast? Do you always do mashes? I’d try lowering the temperature next time but I can’t get 70 degrees anywhere in my house.

 

I've had kham yeast like that in pickle ferments; wispy, thin skinned and had a few bubbles trapped under its surface.  em is fermenting a ground up pepper mash, so kham yeast in those situations usually forms a thin layer on the top.  


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
I would love to travel to your castle to roam the land,eat pie and hunt woman. - sicman
 
 

#15 emanphoto

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 10:46 PM

Perhaps use a turkey baster to remove the unsightly aspects and then refrigerate for the duration of your ferment.  

I ferment only a month as I don't have the volume yet to experiment on longer ferments.

Again, there are others on the forum who know food safety WAY more than me.  I'm just starting. :)

 


Edited by emanphoto, 06 May 2018 - 10:51 PM.


#16 emanphoto

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Posted 08 May 2018 - 09:10 AM

Ok.

I just made a mash of Thai chilies, prik chee fa (original Sri Racha sauce chili), garlic and shallots, and 4 red bell peppers. All were smoked. The bells I burned and removed the blackened skins and seeds. Added what would be 3% salt to the volume in 3 cups of water

Out of curiosity, I checked the pH once it was in the bottles and it was 4.6 which isnt far from your mix, but mine hasnt started fermenting since I just made it. Ill be checking it again of course over time but thought Id mention this FWIW.

#17 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 08:20 PM

Ok.

I just made a mash of Thai chilies, prik chee fa (original Sri Racha sauce chili), garlic and shallots, and 4 red bell peppers. All were smoked. The bells I burned and removed the blackened skins and seeds. Added what would be 3% salt to the volume in 3 cups of water

Out of curiosity, I checked the pH once it was in the bottles and it was 4.6 which isnt far from your mix, but mine hasnt started fermenting since I just made it. Ill be checking it again of course over time but thought Id mention this FWIW.


So if my pH strips are to be trusted it hasn’t changed in two weeks. If anything it has gone up, so I’m going to discard it.

Maybe I’ll try to do a mash or put it in an air conditioned room for the first week to see if that helps.

#18 emanphoto

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:58 PM

I think that might be best.  I can't tell you what it means if the pH is high except that it isn't considered food safe and given the UFO's in there it is probably for the best.  After one month of fermenting Thai chilies, my pH is 3.5.  After adding vinegar to make it into sauce, the pH drops to 3.2 by my meter.

 

RE: pH strips

Years ago I had some strips for my photo lab and after years in Chicago climate, they became bad and couldn't give anywhere near accurate readings.  This time around I gave strips very brief consideration before buying a pH meter.  My meter gives me a reading of 6.8-6.9-7 for water so there is some fluctuation.  So my 3.5 reading could be 3.8 on the high end.  I have the solution for the pH adjustment solution but I need to find a way to store it as you only get one packet per meter.

 

I think if one is going to make sauces etc with any regularity, a pH meter is worthwhile investment.  Cost for mine was around $10 here in TH.  Personally I find it gratifying and reassuring to check the pH from time to time and see that things are at the levels they should be.



#19 emanphoto

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 07:06 AM

Just did a check of the pH of 3 batches I have fermenting now.  All mash and salt, all smoked.  I don't add any citrus.

 

Start dates and description:

 

5/9/18 jalapeno garlic and shallots pH 3.5

 

5/8/18 thai chili, prik chee fa, burned red bell, garlic and shallots  pH 3.2

 

5/14/18  new thai chili to replace one i burned :(  garlic and shallots pH 3.8



#20 ThePizzaMonster

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:11 PM

I think that might be best.  I can't tell you what it means if the pH is high except that it isn't considered food safe and given the UFO's in there it is probably for the best.  After one month of fermenting Thai chilies, my pH is 3.5.  After adding vinegar to make it into sauce, the pH drops to 3.2 by my meter.

 

RE: pH strips

Years ago I had some strips for my photo lab and after years in Chicago climate, they became bad and couldn't give anywhere near accurate readings.  This time around I gave strips very brief consideration before buying a pH meter.  My meter gives me a reading of 6.8-6.9-7 for water so there is some fluctuation.  So my 3.5 reading could be 3.8 on the high end.  I have the solution for the pH adjustment solution but I need to find a way to store it as you only get one packet per meter.

 

I think if one is going to make sauces etc with any regularity, a pH meter is worthwhile investment.  Cost for mine was around $10 here in TH.  Personally I find it gratifying and reassuring to check the pH from time to time and see that things are at the levels they should be.

 

I made a new batch but this time I made a mash and I'm doing it at a lower temperature. I tested the pH at the start with the strips and it was around 4.5. Let's see what happens.






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