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A couple of plants have not been happy all the way.


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#1 Scorchio

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 11:01 AM

So, my first year. Things have mostly gone really well from what I thought was a shaky start.
I have 2 Moruga Scorpions 2 ft high and very happy, just flowering.
One Dorset Naga, a bit slower but very happy, just flowering.
A Submarine, a Jamaican Jerk and a couple of Super Chillis.
In short everything is happy but one.
Orange Habanero.
It never took off like the rest. It is flowering profusely.
So here's my problem. The top leaves are very dark green and curling up. They seem quite blistered as well.
Due to the dark green colour, could I have over fed this plant? It has had no more than the rest.

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#2 Mr. West

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:17 PM

Habaneros, generally speaking, are shorter plants that often favor sandy soil and arid conditions.
The top leaves are dark green and curling in an upward direction, looking blistered?
Dark green & stunted are symptoms of P deficiency.
Could be poor P uptake from consistently wet soil (overnight).

Edited by Mr. West, 03 July 2018 - 03:17 PM.


#3 SmokenFire

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Posted 03 July 2018 - 02:50 PM

Pics would help our growers better identify the issue Scorchio.  :)


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
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#4 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 12:15 AM

Yes. Will take a couple later. The leaves feel stiff if you get me and are curling under and rolling up.
Cheers guys.

#5 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:39 AM



If you look closely there are a few near the top of the plant. Curling down, dark green.20180704_103253.jpg

Edited by Scorchio, 04 July 2018 - 04:45 AM.


#6 Mr. West

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:15 AM

Leaf tips curling down. Looks like moderate N toxicity. Either the soil mix is too hot or it's overfed.
Luckily, the plant looks healthy enough, so i dont think its too extreme to recover from.
Definitely dont feed any more nitrogen. If you had just given them Nitrogen liquid feed, and noticed these symptoms, then you might be able to get away with flushing the excess soluble N out.
But you say they have been like this all along? So, its probably the soil it's in. In this case, transplant to a mix with less fertilizer, or maybe the same soil cut with non-nutritive substrate like (peat/ coco/ vermiculite) so its not too hot for the plant.

Edited by Mr. West, 04 July 2018 - 07:21 AM.


#7 solid7

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 12:06 PM

Leaf tips curling down. Looks like moderate N toxicity. Either the soil mix is too hot or it's overfed.
Luckily, the plant looks healthy enough, so i dont think its too extreme to recover from.
Definitely dont feed any more nitrogen. If you had just given them Nitrogen liquid feed, and noticed these symptoms, then you might be able to get away with flushing the excess soluble N out.
But you say they have been like this all along? So, its probably the soil it's in. In this case, transplant to a mix with less fertilizer, or maybe the same soil cut with non-nutritive substrate like (peat/ coco/ vermiculite) so its not too hot for the plant.

 

I'm not so sure about this.  N toxicity results in root dessication, and tends to leave brown crispy edges. (regardless of curling, which I believe goes up, not down)  I'm almost inclined to believe that we have some mites going on here.  But it's REALLY hard to tell from that photo.

 

Also, coco is not a non-nutritive.  It has a very high Potassium content.  And coco will also grab available calcium, and exchange it for said potassium.  So if you're not aware of that fact, you could trade one problem for another.  And, another yet, if you are already using a high-P fertilizer.


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#8 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:42 PM

 
I'm not so sure about this.  N toxicity results in root dessication, and tends to leave brown crispy edges. (regardless of curling, which I believe goes up, not down)  I'm almost inclined to believe that we have some mites going on here.  But it's REALLY hard to tell from that photo.
 
Also, coco is not a non-nutritive.  It has a very high Potassium content.  And coco will also grab available calcium, and exchange it for said potassium.  So if you're not aware of that fact, you could trade one problem for another.  And, another yet, if you are already using a high-P fertilizer.


Hello gents and Ladies if applicable. And thanks to one and all for replies.
It's in an approx. 80% cocoa 20% John innes compost. Some Perlite thrown into that.
Been feeding Organic Tomato food and alternating that with a tea made from chicken poo pellets and molasses.
I believe I have over fed.
I have flushed it today as that can't really hurt whatever problem is apart from over watering which is nigh on impossible with this soil mix.
Time will tell.

#9 solid7

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 03:54 PM

It's really hard to overfeed on organic ferts, although the chicken poo would be the most likely culprit, if it were happening.

 

Also, is your molasses unsulphured?  


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#10 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:11 PM

It's really hard to overfeed on organic ferts, although the chicken poo would be the most likely culprit, if it were happening.
 
Also, is your molasses unsulphured?  


I've only fed half strength on the Organic stuff but must admit to no science going into the chicken poo tea with molasses lol.
I'd say about half a cup to a gallon plus a tablespoon of molasses, stirred (not shaken) for a couple of days till fermenting.
The Habanero is only complainer. My Jamaican Jerk was also looking unhappy but seems to be over it.
Will check the molasses. It's Tate and Lysle black treacle. All I can get locally. Back in Spain there was a product made by Nuns.

#11 Mr. West

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:35 PM

Yes. Will take a couple later. The leaves feel stiff if you get me and are curling under and rolling up.
Cheers guys.


With the new information, Im sticking with excess N diagnosis.
More/better pictures might help.
Some of the leaves i can see look dark and droopy with tips curled down, but stiff or crispy instead of flexible and happy.
Coco's CEC also has a nitrogen sink effect similar to how it stores potassium, and coco is prone to nutrient lockout from ph changes (often solved by flushing with dilute nutrient solution).
Its still hard to say with any certainty.
Keep us posted what happens after the flush.

#12 solid7

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:59 PM

coco is prone to nutrient lockout from ph changes 

 

All media are prone to nutrient lockout from pH changes. (that is, after all, why we pay attention to it)  Coco is no more so than any other, however.  I can especially qualify that statement when it's used to build potting mix, and not just straight DTW hydro.


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#13 solid7

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 05:08 PM

I've only fed half strength on the Organic stuff but must admit to no science going into the chicken poo tea with molasses lol.
I'd say about half a cup to a gallon plus a tablespoon of molasses, stirred (not shaken) for a couple of days till fermenting.
The Habanero is only complainer. My Jamaican Jerk was also looking unhappy but seems to be over it.
Will check the molasses. It's Tate and Lysle black treacle. All I can get locally. Back in Spain there was a product made by Nuns.

 

It is impossible to qualify an overfeed, without knowing how you brewed your tea.  That might seem like a lot, but how strong is it?  I mean, 1 cup per gallon is nothing, if you brewed a gallon of tea with a tablespoon of chicken shit.

.

It's really rare to see a N overdose on organic ferts - not impossible, just rare.  But if you made your tea from chicken poo pellets, would this be a finished product, or a raw, compressed product? (hey, it matters)

.

Nitrogen excess, or "burn" is root damage.  You've dried them out with mineral salts. If that happens, your leaves will start to die, from the tips and edges, working back.  They will become brown and crispy, with some spots on the leaves, also possible.  There is no other type of nitrogen "sickness" in plants.  I can't tell from your pics, but if that's happening, then yes, you overdid the chicken poo.


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#14 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 05:53 PM

Thanks again to all.
Read up on my molasses and although seeing praise on another site, I find it does have sulphur.
Good news is I think I've sourced something better.
I put 3 gals of just PH'd water through it. Think leave it 3 or 4 days and repeat.
Think we all agree it's a nutrient prob of some sort.
Wondering how it will work out as top leaves appear stunted as well.

#15 solid7

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 06:05 PM

That sulphur could potentially cause swings in pH towards the acidic.  However, I wouldn't be absolutely dead set on a nutrient issue, just yet.

.

Without trying to absolutely nail down a cause, I would also strongly urge you to be diligent in looking at other causes...  like possibly mites.  Especially as you've stated that this is only happening on a couple.  And even more so, as you've stated that one plant had this, and snapped out.  The little bastards are mobile, and will do the rounds.  This is speculation, but it fits the profile. (from what I can see)  Might want to get a high powered monocle, and see if you can spot any microscopic critters - especially near the terminal buds of new leaves.

.

With plants as green as yours, and without a nice top dress of mulch and organic matter, that could be a nice invite.


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#16 Mr. West

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 06:22 PM

Mix is 80% coco, 20% compost, & some perlite.
That's a lot of compost, plus tomato feed, & anaerobic chicken poo & molasses solution.
(To me, 1 cup/gal sounds high idk)
With this many different insoluble inputs, albeit organic, residual ammoniacal nitrogen can burn/asphyxiate roots as well as attract pests & soil-borne pathogens.
We cant see the roots, but those leaves appear to have lost some turgor.

Edited by Mr. West, 04 July 2018 - 06:36 PM.


#17 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:21 PM

That sulphur could potentially cause swings in pH towards the acidic.  However, I wouldn't be absolutely dead set on a nutrient issue, just yet.
.
Without trying to absolutely nail down a cause, I would also strongly urge you to be diligent in looking at other causes...  like possibly mites.  Especially as you've stated that this is only happening on a couple.  And even more so, as you've stated that one plant had this, and snapped out.  The little bastards are mobile, and will do the rounds.  This is speculation, but it fits the profile. (from what I can see)  Might want to get a high powered monocle, and see if you can spot any microscopic critters - especially near the terminal buds of new leaves.
.
With plants as green as yours, and without a nice top dress of mulch and organic matter, that could be a nice invite.


OK. Let's rule out molasses as the problem. They've only had it once, about a week ago and this problem has been around a while. I have just been ignoring it.
If mites, the little devils are smaller than red spiders for sure as I can just about see those.
Why not give it a quick spray with bug clear.
Still coming down from the penalty shoot out Tuesday night.

#18 solid7

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:26 PM

OK. Let's rule out molasses as the problem. They've only had it once, about a week ago and this problem has been around a while. I have just been ignoring it.
If mites, the little devils are smaller than red spiders for sure as I can just about see those.
Why not give it a quick spray with bug clear.
Still coming down from the penalty shoot out Tuesday night.

 

If it's mites, it would be broad mites.  You won't probably see them at all with the naked eye.  But they do big damage.  And it often looks very similar to what I'm seeing in your picture.  Not super easy to treat.  I would probably recommend sulfur dust to treat them. (but be careful not to get it into the media)

 

Now why would a guy who never got into footie be jarred up over that thuggery from the Colombians?  You're lucky that South Americans can't defend. :D


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#19 Scorchio

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:52 PM

 
If it's mites, it would be broad mites.  You won't probably see them at all with the naked eye.  But they do big damage.  And it often looks very similar to what I'm seeing in your picture.  Not super easy to treat.  I would probably recommend sulfur dust to treat them. (but be careful not to get it into the media)
 
Now why would a guy who never got into footie be jarred up over that thuggery from the Colombians?  You're lucky that South Americans can't defend. :D


I have some stuff called bug clear for veg and fruit already made up as had white fly on tomatoes.
The leaves that have curled feel kind of stiff or rigid if you know what I mean?
Just seen a rabbit in my garden (dawn here), bet he was the one that had my rhubarb.
I expected one of us to retaliate to that headbutt and it all to get very nasty.
I do watch England games but turned it off for the penalties lol.

#20 solid7

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 12:02 AM

If you have had whiteflies, there's a very good chance that you're dealing with broad mites.  Broad mites hitch rides on the legs of whitefly.


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