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Chilhuacle Amarillo/Negro/Rojo

Bicycle808

Bicycle808

Hello.

Yes, I searched the topic. Found some promising leads in other threads that didn't yield a whole lot of info, but they at least let me know the identities of folks who have grown these chiles. But, before I stalk those growers via unsolicited direct messages, I figured I'd ask here.

The internatialwebnet, being the dirty dishonest slut that it is, has psyched psyched me out. All these sites talking about how Chilhuacles are scarce and rare bc they are difficult to produce, etc....they have new wondering: is i&i good enough to grow these thangs?

You see, I've never sampled any of these pods, but if they are, in fact, ancient, Mexican, and mysterious, well... Those are the very three things that i hope to one day become! So, of course, I desperately want to grow them, and because it's just a few weeks before I plant out in 2019, it's the perfect time to start planning 2020's grow, right? Lol... but I thought I'd better ask: are there any difficulties with growing these chiles? THP member BlackFatalii said they're just regular annuums, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had a different experience. I'm mostly interested in the Negro and Amarillo versions, but any general info on these Chilhuacles would be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Rob
 
Hey bike man.  No experience with it myself, but I like the tradition on the old Mexican chilies and your post got me interested so I took a brief look and found this interesting write-up:
 
https://rethink.earth/saving-mexicos-most-emblematic-chilli/
 
Always bums me out a little when I hear the old "this pepper doesn't have it's special flavor when it's grown elsewhere" line, but it sure wouldn't stop me from growing it myself.
 
Growing this year some Chilhuacle negro, so far I could taste a leaf for you, but I suppose not worth :)  I am pretty sure the seed source is Mike (smokemaster), but well, dunno if he grew himself, or is a donation/seed exchange. Have me in sight and shoot me later with a question/pm about the pepper, and I will send you seeds too, if no disaster struck.
 
CaneDog said:
Hey bike man.  No experience with it myself, but I like the tradition on the old Mexican chilies and your post got me interested so I took a brief look and found this interesting write-up:
 
https://rethink.earth/saving-mexicos-most-emblematic-chilli/
 
Always bums me out a little when I hear the old "this pepper doesn't have it's special flavor when it's grown elsewhere" line, but it sure wouldn't stop me from growing it myself.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for the link; that's an incredible article, and the pictures were amazing! Yeah, I've read that kind of thing before and there may well be factors with the climate and soil that give out a unique and exclusive flavor, sure. . . But that kind of talk has become all to common with regional specialty crops. Shit, man, living where i do, I have to hear all this similar nonsense about cheesesteaks all the time.... And 80% of it is bullshit. And the chef guy, Muñoz, who made the claim that Chilhuacles grown elsewhere are not the same chile? He lost a lot of credibility with me in the last paragraph, when he was talking about his disagreement with Farmer Martínez over using the solar drier. I sense some epicurean douchebaggery....

So, yeah, I think it's entirely possible, maybe even likely, that there are subtle differences between Chilhuacles grown in the Cañada de Oaxaca and elsewhere. But I'm skeptical about how significant this are, plus it's a moot point. I only grow in South Jersey, personally... I'm not moving to Oaxaca just to grow better peppers.

rghm1u20 said:
Growing this year some Chilhuacle negro, so far I could taste a leaf for you, but I suppose not worth :)  I am pretty sure the seed source is Mike (smokemaster), but well, dunno if he grew himself, or is a donation/seed exchange. Have me in sight and shoot me later with a question/pm about the pepper, and I will send you seeds too, if no disaster struck.
Click to expand...
That's awesome that you're growing these! I think, if your plants are already established, you're probably off to a good start. One grower on THP complained that she couldn't get her chilhuacle seedlings past like 60mm in height. Details were scarce, but I suspect she was struggling with chile propagation in general, rather than any thing specific to Chilhuacles....

I suspect that, based on the article CaneDog linked above and similar, less-detailed articles I have read elsewhere, the Chilhuacles present challenges when grown on a commercial level, in party bc they're maybe a little bit sensitive to pests and water, but largely due to the old fashioned methods used by farmers in the region.

I'm definitely going to try growing these things. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I appreciate your offer for seeds, but I'll probably just order some. I love to support seed vendors who stock cool shit like these...

MarcV said:
Not sure if this helps but Refining Fire Chiles has seeds...
 
https://www.superhotchiles.com/?s=chilhuacle
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Yeah, I noticed that he has all three colorways available... I'm more likely to order from Semillas de Palma. Peter has the Negro and Amarillo versions, which is probably enough for me... Plus, he has the short Amarillo's, which look cool. Apparently, Refining Fire has the more attenuated pheno. Refining Fire has a rad selection and they are known for offering high quality products, but Jim Duffy is just so obviously a Rear Admiral in the Douche Navy. I prefer to spend my scheckles elsewhere.

Speaking of Douche bags, I was cleaning my car or the other day, and found some Bonnet seeds I was supposed to send to you and Trident Chilli. Seems like I never followed thru and got them to the post. So I guess I'm, at the very least, an Ensign in the Douche Navy, myself. I know it's too late for 2019, but I will get those out to you...
 
I germinated both Negro and Rojo seeds this year.  One of those varieties survived but I can't remember which one.  This will be my first year for them.  My seeds came from a source I don't know much about but have heard some not so good stuff about.  We'll see if they grow true.  I've got de Arbols, Guajillos, Pasillas, Chiltepins and Puyas going too.  
 
I noticed a difference too between the semillas and the RFC versions....
 
Oh and don't worry about the walton farm bonnet seeds. I managed to obtain some from Lee and shared some with trident so we're both good. But thanks anyway!
 
MarcV said:
I noticed a difference too between the semillas and the RFC versions....
 
Oh and don't worry about the walton farm bonnet seeds. I managed to obtain some from Lee and shared some with trident so we're both good. But thanks anyway!
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Oh that's a relief. I felt like such an A-hole when I realized i'd forgotten my obligations to my fellow chile ppl...
 
Harry_Dangler said:
I germinated both Negro and Rojo seeds this year.  One of those varieties survived but I can't remember which one.  This will be my first year for them.  My seeds came from a source I don't know much about but have heard some not so good stuff about.  We'll see if they grow true.  I've got de Arbols, Guajillos, Pasillas, Chiltepins and Puyas going too.  
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You got a nice lil selection going on there Harry! Good luck with your grow...

PS how do your chilhuacle plants seem to be doing so far? Are they keeping up with your other annuums?
 
Bicycle808 said:
You got a nice lil selection going on there Harry! Good luck with your grow...

PS how do your chilhuacle plants seem to be doing so far? Are they keeping up with your other annuums?
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They are smaller than most of my annuums.  Most of my annuums went shit crazy and surpassed my chinense in no time.  These are still small and don't seem very happy.  
 
Rob, I was a huge Chilhuacle Rojo fan for several years, original seeds from the late, great, dear, sweet Beth Boyd. The flavor is very rich and deep, especially in the dried pods, with notes of licorice and pipe tobacco. (It sounds like b.s., but I am not kidding!) The heat level is actually fairly high relative to most of the classic Mexican culinary chiles, maybe up around Cayenne heat, but with so much more flavor. The only thing I didn't like about them was the plant habit: The node spacing is rather long, much like Poblano, so the branches tend to be long and floppy, and require quite a bit of tying up. But so does Poblano, and no one seems to complain about them...
 
True Chilhuacle Rojo presents as two distinct pod phenotypes, as in Oaxaca the growers are careful to select for both pod shapes when saving seeds. One looks like a typical Guajillo or New Mexico Chile, and the other looks almost like a Paprika pod, as does the Chilhuacle Negro.
 
My friend Dan Lowenstein is one of the best experts on the Chilhuacle variants...I can't remember his THP screen name, but I'll try...
 
There was also a guy living in Mexico who used to post on these boards, who was probably the ultimate authority on the Mexican chiles, but I can't remember his screen name either...So I'm not much help, right???
 
I highly recommend growing any and all of the Chilhuacle variants. In my mind they are some of the most wonderful of the traditional Mexican chiles...
 
This is a big project of mine this season.  I'm looking forward to seeing how they all do.  I sourced from many places. :)
 
Chris
 
windchicken said:
Rob, I was a huge Chilhuacle Rojo fan for several years, original seeds from the late, great, dear, sweet Beth Boyd. The flavor is very rich and deep, especially in the dried pods, with notes of licorice and pipe tobacco. (It sounds like b.s., but I am not kidding!) The heat level is actually fairly high relative to most of the classic Mexican culinary chiles, maybe up around Cayenne heat, but with so much more flavor. The only thing I didn't like about them was the plant habit: The node spacing is rather long, much like Poblano, so the branches tend to be long and floppy, and require quite a bit of tying up. But so does Poblano, and no one seems to complain about them...
 
True Chilhuacle Rojo presents as two distinct pod phenotypes, as in Oaxaca the growers are careful to select for both pod shapes when saving seeds. One looks like a typical Guajillo or New Mexico Chile, and the other looks almost like a Paprika pod, as does the Chilhuacle Negro.
 
My friend Dan Lowenstein is one of the best experts on the Chilhuacle variants...I can't remember his THP screen name, but I'll try...
 
There was also a guy living in Mexico who used to post on these boards, who was probably the ultimate authority on the Mexican chiles, but I can't remember his screen name either...So I'm not much help, right???
 
I highly recommend growing any and all of the Chilhuacle variants. In my mind they are some of the most wonderful of the traditional Mexican chiles...
Click to expand...
 
 
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