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Bonnets and Scorpions struggling


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#1 Tybo

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 11:47 AM

Here with another noob question.  As the title says, my bonnets which include MOA, Foodarama, Freeport Orange and TFM and the CARDI yellow scorpions are suffering in the sun and heat here in VA.  Right now it's only in the low 80's but supposed to get to near 90 by 5pm.  By suffering or struggling I mean that they droop so bad during the bright direct sun that they look like they are almost dead.  I can move them to a shady area and within 20 minutes or so they perk back up.  They are in 5 gallon grow bags.  I checked the soil and it is still moist from getting water yesterday so that's not an issue.

I have Datil's, Shishimi's, Fushimi's, Aji Mango, a tabasco and a sugar rush peach that don't droop at all.

I am pretty sure that Trinidad and Jamaica are much hotter than here so any ideas what is going on?

 

I'll try to get pic's tomorrow if you all think that would help.  I have already moved them to the shade for now.

Thanks

 


Edited by Tybo, 19 May 2019 - 12:01 PM.


#2 Masher

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 11:51 AM

Two choices really. Either keep them in the shade or put up some kind of sunlight barrier during the hottest periods.


I have used:

Patio umbrellas
Bed sheets
Tarps
Burlap bags (large kind like shipping coffee in)

#3 Tybo

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 12:04 PM

Thanks for the reply and I have checked into getting some sunshade material but it just doesn't add up as to why this is happening to plants that originate from areas with a much hotter climate than VA.



#4 CaneDog

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 12:33 PM

Shading the plants is dead-on what you want to do.  It's almost certainly simply that the plants haven't have time to adjust to quickly increased heat and sun and simply can't keep up with the transpiration demands.  Some varieties will struggle more with these changes than others, which explains why growers often see the issues affect certain varieties, but not others.  Plants will develop physically to grow best in whatever conditions they're in and when the conditions change quickly it takes them time to adjust in response.  Plants in cool and low light situations often develop thinner wider leaves. When it gets hot, these allow too much water to transpire, so the plant may develop thicker more compact leaves that hold the water better and also may amp-up their root and circulation systems.

 

If they remain under high stress and wilting and such it will at least slow and could (possibly) even kill them.  You also don't want to over-water right now, and shading will slow down the evaporation of water from the soil so you can maintain a more proper and consistent moisture level, versus watering often and having lots of wet/dry extremes.

 

My bonnets were more sensitive than many other varieties when I planted them out recently, but are doing great now. Give yours some time to adjust and most likely they will be fine. However, it's not uncommon to see some mid-day wilting on even healthy established plants when it simply gets too hot.


Edited by CaneDog, 19 May 2019 - 01:18 PM.

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#5 Masher

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 04:19 PM

Thanks for the reply and I have checked into getting some sunshade material but it just doesn't add up as to why this is happening to plants that originate from areas with a much hotter climate than VA.



Did your seeds come from the country of origin? Doubtful.

Any seedling or young plant has to be hardened off if not planted outdoors from seed.

East coast, west coast, and in between, it's all the same.

Good luck

#6 Bicycle808

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 05:02 PM

It's funny, I was just noting the other day that my Bonnet plants are getting scorched as F in the bright sun while most of my other plants are fine, or just exhibiting a little bit of burn. Like you, I was thinking "how do these plants survive in Jamaica of they can't handle the heat in NJ?"

I have a theory, though. I have a need that's all Jalapeños this year. (Fwiw, the Jalapeños have been handling the heat pretty well so far...) The bad was all Jalapeños and Serranos last year and there are zillions of Volunteer seedlings popping up in that bed. The thing is, as young and tender the volunteers are, and despite the fact that I don't water those things at all, nor do they get any shade, the volunteers never seem even slightly phased by the sun and heat. At all. I'm thinking, bc they came up outdoors, they became accustomed to full sun from day one...

My theory is, chile farmers in Jamaica and Trinidad don't ever start plants indoors. They don't ever have to harden plants off. In that climate, the plants can pop up outside whenever, and once established, they remain in the ground year-round as true perennials. They keep growing and producing until the grower gets rid of them in favor of younger plants (which produce more vigorously) of some sort of tragedy befalls the plant.

So, maybe in developing the modern Bonnet, no one ever selected for traits as far as acclimating to outdoor conditioned more quickly/easily..?

I'm not sweating too much. I thought I'd toasted my Bonnet plants last year, but they bounced right back and, as usual, weren't on to truly appreciate the bright, full sun. I expect similar results this year. But yeah, out did strike me as weird that some of these Caribbean strains seem to struggle more with the heat than their Central and North American counterparts...

Edited by Bicycle808, 19 May 2019 - 05:03 PM.

You are entering the buttocks with the spicy hand of Chinese pepper? And pleasure from this low pepper? I am not sure but the scorpion pepper musk when raw, is the sexual experience. This is granted, and evident in the taste, and the woman jealous. 


#7 CaneDog

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:27 PM

That makes sense. Plants that grow their early tissue in those outdoor conditions never end up under-gunned and suffering while they try to change.  I also wonder how humidity plays into this.  I'd think of the T&T and other Caribbean varieties as being higher humidity plants, so maybe in lower humidity scenarios they struggle more with transpiration from heat and sun.


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#8 Bicycle808

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:39 PM

That makes sense. Plants that grow their early tissue in those outdoor conditions never end up under-gunned and suffering while they try to change.  I also wonder how humidity plays into this.  I'd think of the T&T and other Caribbean varieties as being higher humidity plants, so maybe in lower humidity scenarios they struggle more with transpiration from heat and sun.


I like that humidity theory but in my part of Dirty Jersey, it might not be a factor. Today, our humidity is 76%. In Kingston, Jamaica today, it was 68%... Where I'm at, it's pretty danged humid for half the year....

But that definitely seems like it would be a factor a lot of more "normal" N.American locales.

You are entering the buttocks with the spicy hand of Chinese pepper? And pleasure from this low pepper? I am not sure but the scorpion pepper musk when raw, is the sexual experience. This is granted, and evident in the taste, and the woman jealous. 


#9 CaneDog

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Posted 19 May 2019 - 07:50 PM

I like that humidity theory but in my part of Dirty Jersey, it might not be a factor. Today, our humidity is 76%. In Kingston, Jamaica today, it was 68%... Where I'm at, it's pretty danged humid for half the year....

 

Ahem, uh, yeah.  Well, so much for that theory...   :mope:


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#10 Bicycle808

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Posted 20 May 2019 - 12:06 PM

Naw, I bet that is a good theory, in a lot of North American areas. But South Jersey is just maybe two clicks dryer than the Ocean. It's swampy and murky here in all seasons except winter.

You are entering the buttocks with the spicy hand of Chinese pepper? And pleasure from this low pepper? I am not sure but the scorpion pepper musk when raw, is the sexual experience. This is granted, and evident in the taste, and the woman jealous. 


#11 Tybo

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Posted 22 May 2019 - 12:15 PM

It's funny, I was just noting the other day that my Bonnet plants are getting scorched as F in the bright sun while most of my other plants are fine, or just exhibiting a little bit of burn. Like you, I was thinking "how do these plants survive in Jamaica of they can't handle the heat in NJ?"

I have a theory, though. I have a need that's all Jalapeños this year. (Fwiw, the Jalapeños have been handling the heat pretty well so far...) The bad was all Jalapeños and Serranos last year and there are zillions of Volunteer seedlings popping up in that bed. The thing is, as young and tender the volunteers are, and despite the fact that I don't water those things at all, nor do they get any shade, the volunteers never seem even slightly phased by the sun and heat. At all. I'm thinking, bc they came up outdoors, they became accustomed to full sun from day one...

My theory is, chile farmers in Jamaica and Trinidad don't ever start plants indoors. They don't ever have to harden plants off. In that climate, the plants can pop up outside whenever, and once established, they remain in the ground year-round as true perennials. They keep growing and producing until the grower gets rid of them in favor of younger plants (which produce more vigorously) of some sort of tragedy befalls the plant.

So, maybe in developing the modern Bonnet, no one ever selected for traits as far as acclimating to outdoor conditioned more quickly/easily..?

I'm not sweating too much. I thought I'd toasted my Bonnet plants last year, but they bounced right back and, as usual, weren't on to truly appreciate the bright, full sun. I expect similar results this year. But yeah, out did strike me as weird that some of these Caribbean strains seem to struggle more with the heat than their Central and North American counterparts...

 

The sun has been brutal here also.  Starting tomorrow we are supposed to have a 4-5 day stretch of temps in the 90's.  

Since all of my plants are in containers (grow bags) the wife and I have been moving them to the shade when they start looking like they have had enough.

 

I searched for plant nurseries in Jamaica and they do exist..... https://jis.gov.jm/a...pper-nurseries/

 

Anyway, guess we will be getting plenty of exercise for now moving containers each day!

 

Here is one of the CARDI yellow scorpion plants after it has had enough sun for the day.

Scorpion.jpg


Edited by Tybo, 22 May 2019 - 03:33 PM.


#12 Chorizo857_62J

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 12:05 PM

I would move them to a location that gets shade in the afternoon.  I grow all mine in pots, in full sun, and water from the bottom with bucket trays or self-watering buckets.  Some varieties will get wilty if I don't water every other day.  Others seem to hold out fine.  My Bonnets and Trinidad Scorpions are doing fine, but they are in self-watering buckets.  It is in the mid-upper 90's this week, and is supposed to approach 103F by Wednesday.  I have some habaneros at work that get morning to noon sun and shade on my windowsill in the afternoon.  They only wilt if I don't water in about 3-4 days.



#13 Tybo

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 12:57 PM

I would move them to a location that gets shade in the afternoon.

 

​We have been moving them manually for now.  I really don't have a permanent location due to trees.  Hopefully as the season moves on they will become acclimated to the sun just as the other varieties have.

 

I am going to look into these "self-watering buckets" that you mention.  Sounds interesting.  This year we are trying the grow bags and I would like to find something to place them in to hold a little water.



#14 Chorizo857_62J

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Posted 23 May 2019 - 07:34 PM

I would move them to a location that gets shade in the afternoon.

 

​We have been moving them manually for now.  I really don't have a permanent location due to trees.  Hopefully as the season moves on they will become acclimated to the sun just as the other varieties have.

 

I am going to look into these "self-watering buckets" that you mention.  Sounds interesting.  This year we are trying the grow bags and I would like to find something to place them in to hold a little water.

 

There are several tutorials on line, plus some from an Extreme members here such as Peter, who incidentally likes to demo pepper products. His videos are great and very helpful.  I have some of those designs working.  Being the cheap guy I am with little or no budget, I went with a 1-bucket design with a HD 5-gal bucket.  They are cheaper than pots.  I drill four holes around the bottom perimeter, about 2-1/2 inches from the bottom.  Those are drain holes.  I then jet a 3/4-inch PVC pipe down within inches of the hole perimeter, and that is how I water these.  They get bottom watering and don't get the leaf drop, spots, and pod drop of over-watering.  You DO need to keep up with the watering in very hot days, but they seem to be doing quite well, and we're in 95 to 100+ F this coming week.  Another aesthetic is whether your significant other accepts orange buckets all over the place.  With us, there's one side of the house where that works (is permitted), and the decorative stuff on the opposing side of the house.  I still get to sleep inside, so I guess this is working. 
 






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