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Who lied to me?! :( Scoville not making any sense!


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#1 Hotsaucer

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:00 AM

Hey everyone!

So I've got other things I want to talk to ya'll about too but one thing is now really stuck in the back of my mind and I can't shake it.

According to sources Tabasco sauce is supposed to be between 2000-5000 scoville. This would suggest about a 10% pepper content.
Now Jalapenos are supposed to be between 500- at most 5000.


Here's the crazy scoop.
I've got myself some cheap knock off sauce which literally lists the percentages of peppers (and I've tried to get the same from other pepper companies but they mostly refuse :/ ).
So the percentages on this hot sauce are 25% Jalapenos (red ones) and the rest is xantham gum, vinegar, salt, what not.
It does have one interesting ingredient. But it's not "capsaicin" extract" just "spice extract".

In Sweden that usually means some generic spices to enhance the flavour. But it could be say habanero extract, in theory though that would be both expensive (and the sauce was cheap) and unusual to not advertise it.

Anyway it's so much hotter than anything I've tasted.

What I'm wondering is if there can be any type of ingredient that artificially enhances the sensation of capacium the way MSG does with many other flavours?
The thing here is I can sip on tabasco but even a little bit at the edge of a fork of this stuff is too much for me. The pain is worse than having say the Pain 85% sauce, much much worse.

How is this possible from a cheap knock off brand?

 

3 dollars is the price for about 3.5 oz though everything (especially hot sauces) is more expensive in Sweden so make it about like 2 dollars at most in any generic US store.


Edited by Hotsaucer, 01 October 2019 - 07:36 AM.


#2 salsalady

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:39 AM

What is the percentage of spice extract, and can you list all the ingredients or list the brand, maybe an online link to see the label ingredients?

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#3 The_NorthEast_ChileMan

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:54 AM

Hey everyone!

So I've got other things I want to talk to ya'll about too but one thing is now really stuck in the back of my mind and I can't shake it.

According to sources Tabasco sauce is supposed to be between 2000-5000 scoville. This would suggest about a 10% pepper content.
Now Jalapenos are supposed to be between 500- at most 5000.


Here's the crazy scoop.
I've got myself some cheap knock off sauce which literally lists the percentages of peppers (and I've tried to get the same from other pepper companies but they mostly refuse :/ ).
So the percentages on this hot sauce are 25% Jalapenos (red ones) and the rest is xantham gum, vinegar, salt, what not.
It does have one interesting ingredient. But it's not "capsaicin" extract" just "spice extract".
In Sweden that usually means some generic spices to enhance the flavour. But it could be say habanero extract, in theory though that would be both expensive (and the sauce was cheap) and unusual to not advertise it.
Anyway it's so much hotter than anything I've tasted.

What I'm wondering is if there can be any type of ingredient that artificially enhances the sensation of capacium the way MSG does with many other flavours?
The thing here is I can sip on tabasco but even a little bit at the edge of a fork of this stuff is too much for me. The pain is worse than having say the Pain 85% sauce, much much worse.

How is this possible from a cheap knock off brand?
 
3 dollars is the price for about 3.5 oz though everything (especially hot sauces) is more expensive in Sweden so make it about like 2 dollars at most in any generic US store.

 
The only input I have is an  individuals "perceived " burn that can vary from person to person.. An older thread on this can be read @ _Very courious realisation...


"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein 


#4 SmokenFire

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 01:06 PM

Extracts of paprika can be very hot, they normally use that for "Flamin Hot" chips here in the states.  Speculation though.  :)


It felt like satan pissed in my mouth it was so hot and lasted a long time. It was a horrible experience eating one of them. - SavinaRed
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#5 Hotsaucer

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 02:15 PM

Full list of ingredients by their relative size:

Wine Vinegar, 25% Jalapenos, Water, Salt, Spirit Vinegar, spice extract, xantagum, antioxidation (rosemarine).

Now the percentages other than Jalapenos are not known but we can actually look at the amount of sodium.
Since its a cheap knock off brand it has a shit ton of salt, 19.02 grams per 100 ML of salt or 7.6 grams of sodium
So the spice extract can be anything between 0-19% I guess since it  comes after it.

But yeah, this is the absolute hottest sauce I've ever had. I would assume the scoville scale is at least 100 000, probably more. (if I judge by Pain 85% which is the hottest sauce Ive had raw and that's about 50-100).


If there isn't something that enhances the heat (and it's certainly not the salt since I've had their milder variations) then I must conclude that either the brands are fully scamming people (but then their stock dividents should be gigantic) or again, there is something fishy going on here. Granted, a lot is spent on marketing and the competition in the hot sauce business is tough.


I've not had many hot sauces. Maybe 10 different brands over my life and variations within them. But this is absolutely insane :P


If there's an expert there on hot sauces I could be willing to buy a bottle and send it. Maybe someone has a youtube channel?

 

 

33741718.jpg


And some random videos:
 

 



I haven't watched these yet but the comments suggest its hot.

 

 

edit: ok watched parts of both now. First one says "one of the hottest experiences ever, deserves all its warning labels". I really would want to know the scoville level of this one :O


Edited by Hotsaucer, 01 October 2019 - 02:33 PM.


#6 Hotsaucer

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 02:30 PM

Extracts of paprika can be very hot, they normally use that for "Flamin Hot" chips here in the states.  Speculation though.  :)

 

Oh wow, so like of normal paprika? What is a spice extract anyway? How come a 0-500 scoville thing like a paprika can become super hot if reduced?



#7 sirex

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 02:52 PM

Paprika is more than just sweet paprika. It originated from Hungarian meaning Pepper. It's commonly referencing sweet paprika though the ranges from no heat to hot.

Never sacrifice flavor for heat.


#8 Hotsaucer

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 03:06 PM

Alright



#9 salsalady

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 06:34 PM

I would venture to guess that "spice extract" could be some kind of pepper/Chile extract. I don't know much about labeling requirements across the pond but in the USA there are a lot of ways manufacturers say...
Pepper extract
Chile extract
Extract of capsicum
Oleoresin

Could be as SnF said about a spicy paprika?
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#10 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:03 PM

Extract sauce



#11 HungryJack

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:06 PM

Full list of ingredients by their relative size:

Wine Vinegar, 25% Jalapenos, 

 

25% does NOT refer to the amount or volume of Jalapeno.

 

It refers to the amount of  capsaicin in the pepper.

 

You can find jalapeno products that are mild, medium and hot,

this is achieved by controlling the amount of capsaicin in the product

during the processor stage.

 

Many food processors actually start with a no heat Jalapeno

and then add the heat to the desired levels for their various customer needs.

As the heat from Jalapeno's are variable from pod to pod,

even on the same plant,  which does not work when you are trying to create a product.

 

Most "Jalapeno" sauces would use a Jalapeno with a 5-7% rating.

 

So, the used "hot" Jalapenos in that sauce instead of "mild"

and the spice extract is probably some chili concentrate.

 

Curious do you see a manufacturing date or code on the label/bottle?



#12 salsalady

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:29 PM

 
25% does NOT refer to the amount or volume of Jalapeno.
 
It refers to the amount of  capsaicin in the pepper.
 
You can find jalapeno products that are mild, medium and hot,
this is achieved by controlling the amount of capsaicin in the product
during the processor stage.
 
Many food processors actually start with a no heat Jalapeno
and then add the heat to the desired levels for their various customer needs.
As the heat from Jalapeno's are variable from pod to pod,
even on the same plant,  which does not work when you are trying to create a product.
 
Most "Jalapeno" sauces would use a Jalapeno with a 5-7% rating.
 
So, the used "hot" Jalapenos in that sauce instead of "mild"
and the spice extract is probably some chili concentrate.
 
Curious do you see a manufacturing date or code on the label/bottle?



Interesting...have not heard this before. How do the processors ascertain the heat levels from batch to batch and adjust accordingly? Sounds kind of expensive to do testing on every batch.
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#13 HungryJack

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:53 PM

Interesting...have not heard this before. How do the processors ascertain the heat levels from batch to batch and adjust accordingly? Sounds kind of expensive to do testing on every batch.

 

Well, that is exactly the point.

Truckload #1 is going to have a different heat level,

than truckload #2, and even from case to case, and pepper to pepper.

 

If the truckloads of Jalapenos have no heat,

and we wash, slice, then add the heat in the factory,

we can consistently make, mild, medium and hot products,

and just test and adjust our commercial sized batch.

 

Pretend you are trying to produce Jalapeno slices,

mild, medium and hot,

and I drop off a truck load of Jalapeno,

How you going to seperate peppers by heat level?

Taste or test each one?  :)

 

HJ Heinz paid for the development of  a large number of the commercially available

no heat Jalapenos on the market.



#14 Hotsaucer

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 07:56 PM

HungryJack

You are incorrect in this case though it may be so where you live.

One simple way to disprove it is that their habanero sauce has 4% habaneros.
Btw that one is super mild.


It's also highly doubtful that there exist a Jalapeno with 25% capsaicin  in it! :O :fireball:


Edited by Hotsaucer, 01 October 2019 - 07:59 PM.


#15 HungryJack

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:14 PM

HungryJack

You are incorrect in this case though it may be so where you live.

One simple way to disprove it is that their habanero sauce has 4% habaneros.
Btw that one is super mild.


It's also highly doubtful that there exist a Jalapeno with 25% capsaicin  in it! :O :fireball:

4% is the Capsaicin level in the Habanero EXTRACT they used

to produce that sauce,

why it is milder than a Jalapeno flavored EXTRACT they used

with a 25% capsaicin level in the ultra hot sauce,

really very simple to understand.

And how it works, in the US, Sweden or Germany where this sauce 

was produced for LIDL.
Which originally sold for .99 Euro. ($1.10 US)

 

LIDL sells/produces very low quality food, makes the food they sell in Walmart

seem high end gourmet.

So, that bottle of sauce, probably does not have a single actual

pepper in it.   Lots of xanthan gum, extract and flavorings.

 

PS.  nobody lied to you either, its labeled as a super hot sauce,

you ASSumed its milder from the ingredient list,

and yet ignored the information provided on the bottle of its potency.

You have a strange way of viewing things,  just sayin.


Edited by HungryJack, 01 October 2019 - 08:30 PM.


#16 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:25 PM

HungryJack you are wrong.



#17 HungryJack

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:32 PM

HungryJack you are wrong.

 

Wrong about what?

 

I could be wrong about many things :)

But probably not 



#18 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 08:46 PM

In Europe and Australia it is common to list percentages, if is says Jalapenos 25% that's exactly what it means, nothing to do with cap. It may also say Cherries 9% etc.



#19 HungryJack

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 09:26 PM

In Europe and Australia it is common to list percentages, if is says Jalapenos 25% that's exactly what it means, nothing to do with cap. It may also say Cherries 9% etc.

 

Um, ok,

Can we apply a tiny bit of logic then ?

Why is there only one single ingredient listed

with a % then?

Why not any other, if its so "common"?

 

Because its not the percentage of the weight.

Its the "name" of the ingredient.

 

This $1 sauce is made from vinegar, water, extract and gum.

No peppers were harmed in the making of this sauce.

:)



#20 The Hot Pepper

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Posted 01 October 2019 - 09:32 PM

:rofl:

 

I'm out.....






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