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Member Since 03 Jun 2014
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#1626203 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 15 April 2019 - 10:50 AM

Welp I can't seem to get lucky with these seeds. I've tried two times and both times I had terrible germ rates. The few that did germ were helmet heads. I'm gonna try one more time I think.

#1623740 Not a Thunder Mountain Longhorn

Posted by b3rnd on 02 April 2019 - 12:34 PM

Hey guys,


I haven't been very active here lately, life got in the way. I am growing peppers of course! I came back to share some pictures of these awesome pepper plants with you.

As the title says they're supposed to be Thunder Mountain Longhorns, but they look far from it. I planted four seeds, two of which turned out normal and two turned out this way.


The leaves are mottled and variegated. Some anthocyanin here and there. It looks pretty awesome, but I have no idea where it got these genes from. The only variegated pepper I've grown is the Fish pepper, and that was back in 2016. I think I grew some TML that season and saved some OP seeds. But even if that was the case, it wouldn't explain the purple hue.


I tried to add pictures in the normal way but the forum doesn't allow me to use imgur for some reason. I also couldn't use the forums own system because my file sizes were too big. So I added them to a Google Photos collage, and here is the link: 




Sorry about that. 


I'll try to post some updates every few weeks.


#1607500 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 21 January 2019 - 12:49 PM

Awesome to see all your plants grow so fast! I'm a bit late to the party because I'm just starting at the end of this month. Last year my plants grew too tall for my growing cabinet way before it was warm enough for them to be outside. 10 days and the seeds go in the ground!

#1598895 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 17 December 2018 - 11:56 AM

The initial crossed pod produces F1 seeds. F1 seeds produce F1 plants (which makes sense because a seed is basically a baby plant). F1 plants produce pods with F2 seeds. So the seeds you harvest are one generation ahead of the parent plant.


When you buy F1 strawberry seeds from a breeder, you're not gonna get a bunch of variation. Which you would get if F1 seeds produced F2 plants (like in Paul's theory).

#1597198 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 08 December 2018 - 01:40 PM

Woah! Which genius let that happen!? I thought the legal age of awesomeness consumption wasnt until much later and many more years of moral degradation! We need to set boundaries here.


:eek:  Wha...?



Yes. the concept of hard germination requires a certain

amount of maturity  :D


+1 boundaries!


Hahaha no doubt about that!


I think SpeakPolish is in high school? His profile says he's born in 2004, so..


Whoa...I think I just germinated in a moist paper towel! :shh:


Better than rockwool   :scared:


If it starts to get itchy down there, you should go see a doctor  :rofl:

#1597069 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 07 December 2018 - 03:25 PM

Oh, Im gonna germinate them so hard.


Tone it down a notch will ya! There are school kids on here!

#1594869 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 24 November 2018 - 09:20 AM

Yellow pods? That sounds like a recession into the constituent lineage like a bonda MA jaques w/o pimienta de nadye

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk



The F4 pods this year came from some F3 seed I had
saved. Some of the pods were light yellow in the F4.
I really want to see What Tristens F2 will produce in
another trial, but I feel most all subsequent generations
will lose the darker yellow color.

But, to answer your question, sure. All the F2 should
produce yellow pods.


YAMracer, in one of my earlier posts I explained my theory that Pimenta da Neyde is actually homozygous for the gene that makes a pepper yellow (in fact it seems that the pepper is actually white underneath all that purple). The fact that Paul just mentioned that all the F2's produced yellow pods confirms that. A cross between two plants that are homozygous for a certain gene will always be homozygous for that gene as well.



Edit: I can't stop thinking about the red colour in one of the later generations though. Paul, were all the seeds isolated or could any accidental crossage have happened?


Edit2: I'm now thinking I might've misunderstood your post, YAMracer. If so, sorry about that. English is not my first language so...

#1594777 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 23 November 2018 - 03:32 PM

Well the PDN is most likely an Annum and Chinense cross, which mightve helped make the mutation. https://www.facebook...groups/Chilies/
X-Chillies has a bunch of papers on how to mutate chillies using X-Rays and other ways, its very fun to read and definitely doable.


Crossing doesn't create mutations. It's doable, sure. If you have access to an X-ray machine, that's awesome. I wouldn't mess around with that EMS stuff though. I'd very much like to not mutate myself and possibly give myself cancer. I'd like to try using UV-C germicidal lamp some time but due to the low penetrability of it, it probably wouldn't work with pepper seeds.


Anyway, if we want to continue this we should probably open a separate topic.

#1594733 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 23 November 2018 - 05:25 AM

Good question.  Hundreds of years of selection and crossbreeding

should give rise to a number of mutations, right?


Yes, and that does happen. PImenta da Neyde is a great example of this; the anthocyanin retaining mutation is one of a kind and occurred naturally. It just doesn't happen often enough to be useful for plant breeders. That's why in the majority of the cases breeders use mutagens to induce mutations in bulk. They blast hundreds of seeds with gamma radiation or soak them in a mutagenic chemical until the viability of the seeds is about 50%. Half of the seeds will be barren, the other half will survive and be chock full of mutations. Some mutations will be visible, some won't. Some will be useful, some won't. They grow a bunch of plants and select which mutations are worthwhile and breed out all the other mutations through backcrossing.


Because most mutations actually don't really do anything, waiting for natural mutations that are useful is like playing the lottery. To get anywhere you need to force your hand by crossing or artificially mutating genes into the plant.

#1594573 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 22 November 2018 - 12:07 PM

I'm pretty sure the Fish was a natural mutation, yes. It does happen, very rarely. If you want to produce a striped hybrid, I wouldn't bet on getting lucky with natural random mutations though. I have no idea how the Pink Tiger got its stripes, perhaps also by chance, or perhaps by giving nature a hand with some chemicals or radiation.

#1594528 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 22 November 2018 - 05:08 AM

Did anyone breed the Violet and White phenols together? Would be interesting if there were mixed coloration


No. This is the first year for the violet coloration. The plants

the violet pods came from (not F6P) were all grown from

white pod seeds, so go figure. As it is, some plants produce

a few white and mostly violet pods, but it would be interesting

to try for a violet/white variegated.


Variegation, unfortunately, doesn't appear out of thin air. A mutation could occur randomly, sure. But really you'd need to introduce a gene for variegation through crossing it with a variegated pepper like the Fish. That's not something you should try before the strain is stable though because the recombination of heterozygous genes will shuffle the cards again. You'd ideally want to have as little gene variety as possible because you already know exactly which trait you want to pass on.


Besides, if I try to imagine these two pheno's combined in a variegated way, it kinda looks like the Pink Tiger in my brain. I'd say keep it going like this, the pepper is also pretty amazing.



Edit: Small correction of my previous posts (#787): When I said heterozygous, I meant homozygous. Small mistake but worth mentioning.

#1594299 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 20 November 2018 - 07:22 PM

Some more information about what I said earlier. Peter Merle from Semillas la Palma (semillas on the forum) has been doing some interesting experiments with thin-layer chromatography. It's a chemical process involving a solvent (acetone), which separates the colours of the pepper in different bands. It's really very cool, you can find pictures and information on his Facebook page. It is in German but should be clear enough when translated by Google.


One of the peppers he did this with was the Yaki Blue Fawn. He found out that the pepper had neither chlorophyll nor carotenoids, just anthocyanins. I asked him if he had tried it with the PdN and if it maybe had the same trait as the Yaki Blue Fawn. Unfortunately, he didn't grow PdN this year. He did mention that the results would surely be different because Pimenta da Neydes without anthocyanin are 'cream white', while Yaki Blue Fawns without it are red.


This would confirm my theory that Pimenta da Neyde supplied the c1 mutation. In fact, because it's white it actually has both the c1 and the c2 mutations. I'm pretty sure that means the cross is homozygous for the c2 mutation, so that's positive. Remember the c2 gene is partly responsible for the yellow colour (together with the mutation that makes red peppers orange, referred to as y).


But then that raises the question: where did the red pods come from in one of the previous generations? It should (according to my theory above) be heterozygous for y and c2 so there shouldn't have been any plants with red pods.


Of course, this is all just speculation and I have no idea if any of the information I have is even correct. There's also the possibility that I have no idea what I'm talking about.


Most interesting, Bernd.  I wish I had kept more seed from the original

plants I had.  The yellow F3 would have been a great one to grow out.


I suppose the only way to recover that generation is to start a new cross

of the PDN x BMJ and see if a yellow pod emerges in the F3 again. The yellow

F3 pods were on my neighbor's plant, and I did't get any seed from that one  :mope:  


Maybe that is a project worth getting into.


That is unfortunate, Paul. Maybe you could try backcrossing it to another Bonda ma Jacques? It would set you back a bit, but less so than starting from scratch. Not all is lost! Besides, the cross is pretty f-ing cool as is.

#1594095 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 19 November 2018 - 10:23 AM

I found this very cool blogpost explaining some of the genetics of pepper colours. He also made a follow-up post here.


According to that information, the reason there are two colour variations in this cross is because of a recessive gene that inhibits the breakdown of anthocyanins. This is the gene that makes Pimenta da Neyde pods keep their purple colour when ripe.


The ivory colour is somewhat of a mystery because the carotenoid mutation (c2) that makes Bonda Ma Jacques yellow (instead of red) shouldn't result in a white pepper without also having the other carotenoid mutation (c1). If I had to make a guess, I'd say the Pimenta da Neyde maybe supplied the cross with the c1 mutation. Because of the overpowering anthocyanin, this wouldn't do anything visible in the PdN pods.


So I think Trippa was on the right track with his initial idea (purple pepper that ripens to yellow), but the genetics didn't allow it. It should still be possible though.

#1593698 Pimenta De Neyde x Bonda Ma Jacques

Posted by b3rnd on 16 November 2018 - 11:49 AM

I've spent my evening making a batch of chili with home grown peppers, drinking beer, watching re-runs of Futurama,




contemplating a name for these peppers!


Since Leela is a sexy mutant with purple hair, and since the PDN x BMJ peppers have distinctive purple traits, I thought she could a candidate for the naming of these peppers.


Perhaps "Pimenta De Turanga" for the purple variety, and "Bonda Ma Leela" for the white variety (doesn't this translate as "Leela's hot, white underwear" in Creole?)








Hey, Mitch!  Love your thinking, buddy!


Leela Turanga is one of my favorite characters on Futurama.

Gotta love a girl with one eye!


But of course, I liked the Jetsons when I was a kid, too  :oops:


Pimenta de Turanga and Bonda Ma Leela are both awesome!

Just obscure enough to be an inside joke, but exotic enough 

to be for real. Especially Leela's Hot White Underwear.


In Creole  :rofl:




Five points for putting on the thinking cap, my friend!


Great names! I'm pretty sure 'bonda' actually translates to 'butt' though   :rofl:


In Portuguese they say 'bunda', so that's probably where it came from. The pepper's name in Creole is actually 'pimen bonda Man Jak', as stated by this French website:


Bonda: derrière, fesses. On appelle "piman bonda Man Jak" un piment dont la forme évoque les fesses rebondies d'une femme : celles sans doute qui caractérisaient la Madame Jacques en question 


Which roughly translates to:


Bonda: behind, buttocks. We call 'piman bonda Man Jak' a spice which shape reminds one of a woman's plump behind, that is characteristic of the Madame Jacques in question.'



I wonder who this Madame Jacques was. Maybe she was friends with Madame Jeanette?  :rofl:


Edit: By the way, shouldn't the names be switched around? Because Leela sounds exactly like 'lilas', which is French for lilac (a shade of purple).


Edit2: I just realized that's probably exactly why they named the character Leela... Epiphany of the day!

#1592784 comida portuguesa

Posted by b3rnd on 11 November 2018 - 04:29 AM

My wife is also Portuguese! The food is insanely good.


Edit: By the way, some of my favorites are bacalhaõ à brás, frango à brás and bifes com natas. My favorite meat has to be febras de porco preto.