2018 - The Farm

Well, I've been gone a few years from the board, and away from growing peppers, but looks like life is pushing me back that way again. 
 
I recently (last month) closed on a 25 acre farm in Central Illinois with some primo soil, and I'm going to give a commercial grow a test run. 
 

 

 
From up on the roof, when I was doing some roof repairs on the outbuildings. Not much as far as the eye can see, but cornfields...
 

 
 
Has a 4 stall garage and a horse stable on the property
 

 

 

 
Probably do my grow room upstairs here after I insulate it
 

 
Built some doors for the horse barn and patched the roof last month
 

 

 
 
Anyway just dropped a cold grand on seeds from pepperlover and buckeye, going to hit a greenhouse supplier up for other materials next week.
 
Have plans to build a 30x72' greenhouse in the spring, and a ~1200 sq foot dedicated grow room. Too late really to help with this year's grow, but next year it'll save me a lot of hassle on hardening off. 
 
The greenhouse, I am going to do a piped infloor heat slab, with a horizontal loop geothermal system (I own a mini excavator) that is solar powered. So heating should be nice, uniform, not create heat / cold bubbles, and not dry out plants like forced air would. I build circuit boards in my day job, so I will also build a microcontroller to handle the automated watering system with soil moisture monitors and actuated plumbing valves on the water supply.
 
Also plan on building a "deep winter" greenhouse for year round production. Got blueprints I made from a couple of years back, those are walled on three sides with heavy duty insulation, with the glass wall side angled to face winter solstice, so you can grow in the deep freeze months of the north. In the summer, those get hot enough to use as a natural dehydrator, replace the tables with racks for bulk drying.
 
Only doing a half acre or so of peppers to start with this year, the balance will be put in corn. I can't manage more than that with the labor I have available. (When you start talking thousands of plants, simple tasks like up-potting grow in to hundreds or thousands of man hours...)
 
Going to hire some local kids to help, school has a good ag co-op program for high schoolers, they can get school credit working on local farms. Since the plant out and harvest doesn't conflict too badly with corn, shouldn't have a problem finding labor around here.
 
Anyway, that's the plans.
 
We'll see how it goes.. er.. grows.
 

 

[nmlarson]

Feels like I got a kick in the nuts after all this work. Over 48 hours, first the tomatoes keeled over, then the peppers followed. All within a 15' swath of each intake fan that blows up cold air from the lower level.
 

OMG, Trent. I am so sorry this is happening. All your work. I hope the rest are okay. Good God, it's hard to believe that much weed killer has to be used. What in God's name are they growing?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Genetikx]

Fukking bullsh!t. Sorry to hear about this Trent. Seriously makes me not want to eat anything i didnt grow.

I had a guy tell me once, "look at this beautiful apple, it's perfect. Not a wormhole in it" Then he slammed it on the pavement and said "why would I eat something a worm wouldn't eat"

Ever talk to your neighbors? Not that anything would change, just curious how that chat would go

 

[TrentL]

OMG, Trent. I am so sorry this is happening. All your work. I hope the rest are okay. Good God, it's hard to believe that much weed killer has to be used. What in God's name are they growing?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 
Pre-emergent spray on fields and some farmers spray right over the top after they plant, between rows. 2,4-D and dicamba are the go-to, especially since every farmer is growing dicamba resistant beans from Monsanto this year. 
 
Last couple years each year over 600,000 acres of soybeans were wiped out in Illinois from Dicamba. Then monsanto released dicamba resistant beans, and they're all spraying it like crazy. 
 
I wasn't expecting a pre-emergent hit in the garage grow, but it's not a hermetically sealed environment. When the wind blows from the south, the 4 big garage doors just whistle. The plants nearest either end gable windows upstairs are dead. The ones nearest to them are dying. The ones near the intake fans which circulates upstairs air with downstairs air, all keeling over. 
 
In all I have 7 of 15 tables affected. Two tables are goners with 75-100% showing symptoms, another 5 are between 25-50% affected. 
 
Fortunately my ultra-hot table wasn't in the path of the fans. One half of my passive hydro table (on the intake fan side) got hit, but the northern tables weren't. (Odd number tables, starting with 7 (ultrahots), 9, 11, 13, 15 (various annuums) were completely unaffected. Tables 12 and 14 (far east side, furthest from the intake fans) were OK, except for a couple rows of plants nearest the end gable window. 
 
It's not good. They definitely got a good dose of it.
 
Whether it's fatal? 
 
Only time will tell. 
 
The thing is, if they pull through, they will produce like CRAZY.  I already found some chinense with 15+ flower buds PER NODE. That growth auxin they soaked up is some nasty stuff, but if they live through it, they're going to produce like crazy. It'll be a bumper year.
 
So crossing fingers. 
 
If they survive, I'll have 4-5x the amount of peppers I would have had normally.
 
If they die? I'll have a shitload more free time on my hands.
 
Either way, win/win.

 

[TrentL]

Fukking bullsh!t. Sorry to hear about this Trent. Seriously makes me not want to eat anything i didnt grow.

I had a guy tell me once, "look at this beautiful apple, it's perfect. Not a wormhole in it" Then he slammed it on the pavement and said "why would I eat something a worm wouldn't eat"

Ever talk to your neighbors? Not that anything would change, just curious how that chat would go

 
Nearby neighbors all read the signs I posted by the road, I've been in contact with all of them for over a month. They're working with me very closely with regards to spray, especially post-emergent spray. NO ONE wants to be on the tail end of a lawsuit when I'm growing organic tomatoes and peppers. EACH PLANT is valued at $40-80 depending on variety. And I have.. thousands of plants. A full crop wipe that is traceable to a point of origin? I'd get a check for $400k easy.
 
But, that doesn't stop some jackass 2 miles away from spraying a mist 4' over his field and having it drift in 20mph winds right to my doorstep. 
 
And we've had several days this week where there's been 15-30 mph winds.
 
So who knows. This crap could have come from 10 miles away. It carries forever if the person spraying doesn't obey the wind speed, spray height, and droplet size restrictions. 

 

[TrentL]

My 2014 grow at home got hit by 2,4-D drift; this was an overwinter.
 

 
Note the squiggly lines, irregular growing leaves, massive budding up at forks. That's telltale signs.
 
Here's a several week old transplant that got hit at the same time:
 

 
A week after herbicide exposure on younger plants; almost all the leaves dropped off and massive shoots of new growth and forking hits;
 

 

 
 
So fast forward a few weeks.
 
Here's one of the overwinters that got hit:
 

 
And here's one of the annuums that got nailed;
 

 
The hardest part is FEEDING them. If the plants out-grow the root system, they DIE. If you can keep them fed enough to support that massive growth, they do crazy shit like grow 20 peppers per node.
 
In 2014 I hit the ENTIRE garden with root stimulant to check the growth auxins they soaked up from 2,4-D exposure. I can't do that this year and stay organic though. It's prohibited.
 
So I'll feed them high doses of nitrogen and phosphorus to help support the growth and aggressively prune them.
 
Annuums that fall over will get topped and staked.
 
Chinense will have flowers and new growth plucked.
 
The ones which were affected are growing so fast right now they are entirely drying out 4" pots in under 12 hours.
 
It's insane. We watered some of those keeled over ones this morning with 8 ounces of water at 8 AM and by 7 PM we were hitting them AGAIN with another 8 ounces water after they grew so fast, they ran the damn POTS dry.
 
Prior to this incident a half cup was enough water to keep them satiated for *4 days*. My watering schedule suddenly went from every 4 days, bottom water a table, to every 12 frigging hours, we selectively have to weigh pots and water based on weight.
 
It's going to be very touch and go.
 

 

[Genetikx]

It's disgusting, I really hate that you're dealing with this...

Mmmm, dicamba resistant beans from monsanto, sounds delicious. Fuck!n pricks

 

[TrentL]

It's disgusting, I really hate that you're dealing with this...

Mmmm, dicamba resistant beans from monsanto, sounds delicious. f**k!n pricks

 
It was on my list of contingencies. I didn't expect to get hit while they were indoors but knew it was a possibility, because the garage isn't sealed up and we have to open up doors to work, pull equipment in and out, etc. I've dealt with herbicide before, have a pretty good idea of what I can do to mitigate the damage.
 
I got the shipment to build 3x cold frame houses today. 15,181 pounds of steel and poly. I hired a guy to go pick it up so I could work. I supplied the trailer, he supplied the truck to pull it. Cost me $200, less than a buck a mile.
 
The second skid loader guy was dismissed today, now that we've gotten caught up on earthmoving. He cost me $700 for two days of work (he supplied his own equipment and fuel.)
 
Friend of mine was up visiting from Florida. He made $85 as a temp worker today setting posts for 5 hours. 
 
I harvested about 8,000 pounds (rough estimate) of limestone from the old barn footers. That's worth about $2,000-2,400, for limestone pavers.  Not sure what I'll do with it yet.
 
We have a few hundred plants moved outside as of today. The ones not showing herbicide damage are getting lined up outside. Took some pics but haven't uploaded 'em yet.  Some were placed in full sun, just to "see how they do."  It's going to take a worker a few days to get them all out. But Thursday, we have to bring them all back IN again overnight because of bad weather (severe thunderstorms). So wednesday night we have to pull them all back in (not upstairs, just in the lower garage), and then after the storms pass, take them back out again.
 
We have 1/2 of the isolation grow room posts up. 36 posts down, 36 to go. 50 tons of clay and 60 tons of CA6 gravel are waiting to go in to level them off once the posts are all up and a grade line is marked on them. I'll probably do a 0.5 or 1% grade for drainage, west to east. 
 
Tomorrow I begin grading the pasture. It will get tilled up once we're done driving heavy equipment over it. With me deciding "to hell with the wind" and dragging plants out in to the open (no cold frame building yet) and high winds in the forecast all week, I'm delaying building the first cold frame structure. I'll stake it and square it Friday, then we'll pour columns next week. I need to get the pasture prepped for tilling, and there's a lot of rough spots to smooth out on the grade to get it draining properly. 
 
I talked with a guy last night who has a smaller tractor, he's going to till up some of it. I'm going to rent a skid loader tiller attachment for $125 for a day and knock some of it out too.  Probably wait to till until after the mud settles down from the thunderstorms Thursday.
 
In a few days the north segment of field gets cultivated. $25 an hour is what the farmer up the road is charging me. I'll probably plant all watermelons up there. I still have a half pound of seeds (5,000 or so). That's enough to go a long, LONG way. 
 
Need to find a cheap source for straw to cover that field with, to reduce weeds and give the melons something to rest on besides dirt.
 
And people to spread the damn straw.

 

[TrentL]

I have to wait and see if this is truly herbicide drift, or if there's another problem (fungal, bacterial, etc). If plants die, I'll need to get tissue and soil samples done to confirm residue or other pathogen.
 
If it is confirmed drift damage, and I file the report with the state to start the investigation, my entire crop will be deemed non-organic. If soil tests show contamination I'll be ineligible for 3 years.
 
Pain in the ass.
 
 

 

[DontPanic]

If Dicamba is this devastating to indoor pepper plants, what does it do to all the other trees and bushes and everything else it drifts over?

 

[nmlarson]

If Dicamba is this devastating to indoor pepper plants, what does it do to all the other trees and bushes and everything else it drifts over?

 
I'm certainly no expert, but I can put 2 and 2 together.  No, or many fewer, or damaged, plants, fewer blossoms, less food for bees, less pollination by reduced population of bees, reduced yields as a result of reduced pollination.  It would go on and on, down the chain.

 

[TrentL]

If Dicamba is this devastating to indoor pepper plants, what does it do to all the other trees and bushes and everything else it drifts over?

 
It's done billions of dollars in damage each year for as long as it's been around to orchards, vineyards, specialty grows, etc.
 
The government was going to ban it but instead it became a restricted use (licensed sprayers only) with stipulations on when it can be sprayed pre- and post- emergence.
 
Arkansas just banned it last year, can't be used from mid April through November. Many other areas have banned use of it as well.

 

[Edmick]

That's terrible trent. My neighbors had some company come over a couple weeks ago spraying all over the place. I went over and asked what they're spraying and why they're spraying on a 15 to 20 mph windy day. They got all offended like I didn't have a right to know what kind of pesticides/herbicides are being blown on to my property.

 

[TrentL]

I think the plants are going to survive, mostly. I only have one fatality so far. They're drinking a LOT of water.  Very tall, very lanky, very limp. Some have literally DOUBLED in height in the last 3 days (annuums). Chinense are growing gnarly leaves with a dozen or more flower buds per node.
 
I'll have to segregate ones which show definitive symptoms and grow them as non-organic.  
 
They're budding up like crazy, though. This is a close up of one. Some chinense are showing 8-10 flowers *per node*, which is .. unusual. 
 

 

 

 
Tomatoes show it faster than peppers and this looks pretty damn irregular to me.
 

 
 
The oddities are restricted to specific tables in a distinct airflow path. 
 
I'm STILL not 100% sure it's herbicide. I'm waiting on the classic zig-zag center vein to develop that will positively indicate a growth hormone introduction.
 
If I don't see it over the next few days, then there is still the possibility that the open door Friday evening in the 25mph wind, combined with the high humidity and petri dish of the upstairs grow room, allowed a nasty biological in (spore, etc). Although 48 hours is pretty damn fast acting to cause plants to keel over. 
 
Some pics from the orders; pallets of 15 gallon pots
 

 
Graded the northeast corner of the pasture today.
 

 
Farmer's wife, from up the road, showed up to cultivate the north field today. She did a great job. $25 an hour for a huge tractor, cultivator, and operator? Jeesh. Can't beat that deal. Nice neighbors.
 

 
 

 

[TrentL]

On a MUCH more positive note, the hundreds of plants  we have taken outside, were under strong enough light indoors, that when placed in full sun for 2 days (plus 25 mph battering winds..) are showing ZERO signs of sunburn or bleaching or leaf drop.
 
So hardening off is simple. "Take 'em outdoors!"
 
 

 

[TrentL]

Aaaaand we'll be hauling all of them back IN again this afternoon.
 
From NOAA:
Severe storms will be possible late tonight and through the early
morning hours of Thursday. The primary threats will be from
damaging wind gusts of 60 to 65 mph along with large hail, with an
isolated tornado possible.
 
The plants took 30mph gusts yesterday and only one snapped. But I'm not chancing it with 60+mph winds. Got three ladies helping haul them all back inside starting about noon. They aren't going back under lights, just putting them downstairs in the garage until they can go back out tomorrow. 
 
Goal for me today is to get next two cold frame building sites graded, then I'm on hold with stuff until the ground dries up a bit. Windy and clear Friday so should be able to start tilling the field Saturday & Sunday
 

 

[Bhuter]

Holy F, Trent! I'm just catching up here and I can't believe the rotten luck. I hope they continue to grow like crazy and you get terrific production.

That's very interesting that the squiggly middle vein is a sure sign of herbicide damage. I thought I read where it was a sign of broad mite damage. I had the same issue last year and initially thought herbicide. Then I thought it was mites. I still don't know what happened to me. Lol.

That's terrible that those affected will be labeled non-organic. What a huge loss....all around. I'm sorry to hear this.

 

[TrentL]

Whoops. Been chipping away at the organic rules every morning for the last week, while drinking morning coffee. Today I got to section 4.3, "Treated Lumber."
 
We sunk 60 treated 4x4's in to the ground over the last 4 work days - have $7,000 in treated lumber sitting there to build isolation rooms for plants. And... I get to reading this.
 
"Common treatments include alkaline copper quaternary (ACQ), copper azole or micronized copper azole (AC2). MOSA’s policy is to evaluate lumber that was previously installed for contamination potential. As required in the current rule, new and replacement lumber must be untreated, and any treated lumber used must not contact organic crops or livestock. Barriers or buffers may be used to separate organic product from the treated wood.
A number of synthetic materials are now commonly used in place of CCA. These include alkaline copper quaternary, copper azole, and micronized copper azole. These materials are not currently allowed in organic production, as they are not included on the National List..
Use of lumber treated with prohibited materials for new or replacement purposes in contact with organic crops, livestock, or soil, is not in compliance with section 205.206(f) of USDA
organic regulations and is subject to the noncompliance procedures in section 205.662.
Producers could correct a noncompliance by removing lumber treated with prohibited materials or taking measures to prevent contact, such as applying a barrier or establishing a
buffer zone. A three-year transition is not relevant to the correction of a noncompliance (see Section 4.3 Treated Lumber and the Three-Year Transition)."
 
 
 
So, I really shit the bed on this one. I have $7,000 in treated wood there, 60 of 'em already sunk in the ground, and another $1k in labor building it out so far. Plus two days of grading with an extra pair of skid loaders on hand ($700 for one, $560 for the other) ... and I have to pull all of those posts back up now. All in all that's a $10,000+ mistake.
 
It's been a long time since I screwed up something THAT bad. 
 
Guess we'll use the lumber for another project somewhere else. 
 
 

 

[TrentL]

Holy F, Trent! I'm just catching up here and I can't believe the rotten luck. I hope they continue to grow like crazy and you get terrific production.

That's very interesting that the squiggly middle vein is a sure sign of herbicide damage. I thought I read where it was a sign of broad mite damage. I had the same issue last year and initially thought herbicide. Then I thought it was mites. I still don't know what happened to me. Lol.

That's terrible that those affected will be labeled non-organic. What a huge loss....all around. I'm sorry to hear this.

 
Back in 2014 when I got hit I sent pictures to U of I ag lab, and they confirmed it was classical signs of herbicide drift contaminating plants with a growth regulator hormone. The two common ones in use are 2,4-D and dicamba.

 

[TrentL]

Keep in mind a "crooked" or slightly wavering center vein is nutrient.

But when it looks like a drunk driver navigating a cone course, it's herbicide;
 

 
It's impossible to miss once you've seen it.
 
Roundup is your biggest enemy for residential grows. Neighbors yards getting sprayed for dandelions or poison ivy will hit you just as bad or worse than a farmer might.
 
 

 

[TrentL]

Also it's kind of a "f--- your neighbor" deal when your neighbors spray.
 
THEIR dandelions will die.
 
YOURS will grow MUCH MUCH BIGGER.
 
A little drift will induce massive growth in weeds.
 
I had some weeds under my deck (prickly dandelion things) which normally grow about 1 foot tall, grow over SIX FEET TALL that same year. They were frigging gigantic!