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AACT, what you might want to read first.

T

thismembername

This is a question that I have been wondering about for some time. I have developed some concerns with making compost tea and the chance of very harmful bacteria like ecoli.

so today i did a little preliminary research and found that my thoughts are not unwarranted.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17477249
http://cwmi.css.cornell.edu/compostfs2.pdf
http://gardening.stackexchange.com/questions/320/how-is-manure-tea-made-without-e-coli
http://newfarm.rodaleinstitute.org/research/dec04/122304/e.coli.shtml

"In contrast, the addition of commercially formulated mixtures or combinations of nutrient supplements resulted in growth of E. coli O157: H7, Salmonella, and fecal coliforms by 1 to 4 log CFU/g in both aerated and nonaerated CT. When nutrient supplements were added, aerated CT sustained higher concentrations of E. coli O157:H7, Salmonella, and fecal coliforms than did nonaerated CT. Thus, addition of supplements supports growth of human pathogens from very low initial concentrations in both aerated and nonaerated CT and should be avoided when CT is used on fresh produce."

at first glance it appears that many of the items we insist on using, molasses, kelp, etc ... greatly increase the productions of e coli. and salmonella. Experts in the field are recommending with great certainty that you should not use molasses when making AACT.

Also, again at first glance, I have read so far many study's that conclude stating that beneficial microbes in no way suppress anaerobic harmful bacterial in AACT. The existence of other bacteria had no effect on the existence and vigor of e coli and salmonella.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17640578
http://www.horticulture.umn.edu/amarkhar/courses/Hort4072-2007/Compost%20Tea%20and%20Ecoli%20and%20Sam.pdf

I haven't read enough yet to make an informed and educated conclusion and personal choice in regards to this thought and concern, however I did want to share my concern and open it up for discussion.
 
I make compost tea with fresh worm castings from my vermicompost bin. I heard if ur AACT smells bad throw it away as bad bacteria have taken over. If it smells like fresh dirt or a forest then it should be ok. I do add molasses and kelp. I do apply it as a foliar and in the soil. Just to be safe i should always wash the pepper pods real good.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylSrMwpH3GI you can buy beneficial bacteria from : https://www.supremegrowers.com/ or look into Korean Natural Farming I M O (Indigenous Micro Organisms)
 
thismembername said:
I understand that i could grow without using AACT. I merely sharing my concern and findings. Someone interested in making AACT may want to know the risks associated. E coli and salmonella is a pretty big risk.
Click to expand...

There are risks with not properly cooking your compost (making compost and breathing something in) or using manure or having birds/wild animals in your garden so.

Birds And Their Droppings Can Carry Over 60 Diseases

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/61646.php
 
I have been doing some reading in regards to my concerns with the risks of using AACT, salmonella and ecoli and continue to come across research papers which indicate that AACT (compost tea) doesn't have a distinctive benefit. That it has little to no ability to help plants fight off or prevent disease, and that brewing compost tea, especially when using molasses and manures can be very dangerous.

my inquiry was to assess the risk (salmonella, ecoli etc) vs the benefit. But after looking the benefit looks to be non existent. Am I wrong?

http://thehotpepper....salmonella-etc/

http://www.seattle.g...posttreport.pdf
http://puyallup.wsu.... fact sheet.pdf
http://puyallup.wsu....t tea again.pdf
http://www.ars.usda....p06/tea0906.htm

"ingredients commonly added to compost tea may promote growth of a variety of microbes, including pathogens that can cause illness in humans."

"Aeration stimulated more growth of E. coli O157:H7 and fecal coliforms than non-aerated conditions when nutrient supplements were added. Results clearly show that addition of nutrient and other supplements supports growth of human pathogens in both aerated and non-aerated CT"

"While the scientific evidence is certainly lacking for ACT activity in disease control, there is a serious, documented concern with these types of compost teas,” says Dr. William R. Schneider, a research scientist in the Biopesticides & Pollution Prevention Division (Office of Pesticide Programs) of the USEPA. He continues “it is very difficult to do a microbial pesticide risk assessment on a mixture of unidentified microorganisms that could easily contain human and nontarget organism pathogens.”
Indeed, this risk is significant in ACTs that have been “enhanced” with molasses, kelp,and other high-nutrient additives. Such
ACTs have been documented through scientific research to contain E. coli and Salmonella populations, both of which are human pathogens."

"Two field-based studies
report that not only was ACT ineffectiv
e in preventing foliar pathogens, it
exacerbated disease organisms in both apples
and potatoes."
 
If the tea is made correctly, it is safe.

There is e .coli everywhere. In your compost, planting holes, toothbrush, .... everywhere... Going anaerobic is how you make them grow in numbers to an unsafe population.

Oh yeah, and their studies stating that these micro organisms don't prevent pathogens, or cause disease is complete trash. They made the tea incorrectly and/or they are funded by Monsanto. hahah
 
In addition to what guru said, some of the most severe human pathogens, not just E. coli, are universally present in typical topsoil. Such as those that cause gaseous gangrene. As long as their numbers don't explode and you aren't immuno compromised it shouldn't matter much at all. Unless you enjoy eating dirt by the cubic yard or something. That said, I'm a bit of a germaphobe, and always wash my hands before and after gardening. The former is for my plants sake as I am a smoker :)
 
these study's indicate that both NCT and ACT create and cause e coli to populate, and that there is a direct relation to the use of certain additives like molasses. They also state that the existence of other beneficial microbes have no effect on other populations, including these harmful bacteria.

its like saying i cant get cancer because i already have the flu.

check this out
http://www.horticult...oli and Sam.pdf

"although increased microbial activity can lead to anaerobic conditions, the relatively short incubation period of our experiments and continual shaking provided equal oxygen replenishment in teas with and without molasses. Thus our results show that ensuring aerobic and avoiding anaerobic conditions during compost tea production does not preferentially support growth of non pathogenic organisms and ..."

they go on to say that aerobic conditions do not cause pathogens to fall either.

Peptacular said:
In addition to what guru said, some of the most severe human pathogens, not just E. coli, are universally present in typical topsoil. Such as those that cause gaseous gangrene. As long as their numbers don't explode and you aren't immuno compromised it shouldn't matter much at all. Unless you enjoy eating dirt by the cubic yard or something. That said, I'm a bit of a germaphobe, and always wash my hands before and after gardening. The former is for my plants sake as I am a smoker :)
Click to expand...

i think the difference here is, we add the molasses to our brew to get a huge bang, a big growth of microbes. This is what occurs. This is also what occurs with the harmful bacteria. These reports conclude this pretty consistently.

mycorrhizae munch on the molasses, so does ecoli and salmonella. The existence of these other microbes and bacteria have little to no effect on each other.
 
That's like saying seaweed grows as well on land as any terrestrial plant, and not only that, but can outcompete them. It makes no sense. But I'll have to look at the articles more closely, perhaps I am more ignorant than I had imagined.

Edit: my guess is they did not incorporate sufficient dissolution of oxygen into the solvent.
 
Dude....Im reading these "reports" now. Rather unscientific to say the least. Cascadia Consulting Group? that first report by them essentially says "well, we may have actually caused the problems ourselves, but still, this compost tea isn't helping" ...haha there are so many "may haves" and "however it is possibles" in that report....its like they aren't scientists but they did stay in a holiday inn express last night.

Not to mention....all of these groups keep saying "shaking" in the methodology of their tea ... If that is their "active aeration" method of choice...they aren't doing it correctly.
 
muskymojo said:
What the heck does buying your seeds from pepperjoe have to do with this topic? :confused:
Click to expand...

Well if your worried about bacteria and diseases on your vegetables or in the plants why not buy the seeds from a "reputable source" and use a "clean medium" and carefully selected and bread beneficial bacteria.

Disease-resistance. Less humidity due to good drainage means fewer diseases strike seedlings grown in coco.
http://www.tomatodirt.com/coir.html

Coconut coir is disease resistant and has excellent air space and water holding capacity in potting soil.
http://www.northernl...stings.com/coir

coco grow media is free from viruses and soil diseases.
http://www.4hydropon...temNo=cannaCoco

Pollen and Seed-Transmitted Viruses and Viroids

http://www.annualrev...urnalCode=phyto


Thegrowlab
Liked · February 12

Fill your bucket with some water. You are going to add in your root inoculant to spread the roots from the old pot into your new soil.

64562_334706453307041_1449190057_n.jpg
 
Last year I went a little over board with AACT, (if there is such thing) and I lived. I don't think I can count the amount of times I accidentally got it in my eyes, mouth, cuts, etc.

I personally believe it is safer than synthetic chemicals, or recycled biosolds. And lets get this straight right now, We use COMPOSTED manures in AACT. I never touch that shit unless it is over a year old and cooled down a little.


I challenge you to test it out for a a few months and see if you think the "risks" are worth the rewards, I KNOW THEY ARE FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE along with collective experience of many other THP'ers.

But hey, if you prefer to spray agent orange on your food, or by new soil every year because you salted your pots... Go for it
 
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