sun already hardned peppers started drooping alot when they are out in the sunlight

[Caranx]

So i have two local thai varietys that i was gifted 1.5 month ago. It was my first chiliplants and first time growing at all in Thailand. They had a tough first weeks, I thought it was just to buy some soil at one of the local gardencenters for the transplant to the bigger pots but because of lack of language skills and knowledge about growing in Thailand i later found out that all soils that can be bought at gardencenters here are crappy as hell. Almost no nutrition at all and very bad mixes overall which resulted in no food from start and later on drowning/overwatering of the plants.

After spending one week+ driving around all over the island and ordering the rest online and getting it delivered i was finally able to mix and put them in a decent potting mix. Also started feeding after 10 days shifting between fishemulsion, epsom and wormcast every other week. It's been about 3 weeks since that and the plants are growing alot and looks really healthy except for some of the older leaves that was damaged the first weeks. However since i repotted them with the new potting mix they cant handle the sun. Unless it's a very cloudy day they will start to almost wilt within a hour.

They seem to only be happy under the roof of my driveway. I tried a bunch of things but nothing seem to satisfy them! I mulched the topsoil with rice hulls and later on totally covered the top with cut out paperboard and now i changed out the paperboard for cut out 5 gallon bucket lids, also did put a few layers of paperboard under the tray thinking the concrete and stoneplates might heat up too much, covered the pots with few layers of white paper since they are black. Didnt change anything. And today i put up a sunshade over the growing area but later came back home just to see them drooping again.

I live in southern Thailand so it does get hot here, right now it will pend between 30-32 celcious in the shade. However this wasnt a issue at all before i repotted them, and the thai's has their peppers standing in direct sunlight all day long and they dont droop like this. At the beginning i thought it was because the plants was shocked from the transplant, but now it's been 3 weeks and plants grow very well and look really happy when they are under the roof but i can see they are starting to stretch a bit towards the light and i dont want them to get weak stems and the stems already look wavy and funky enough because of this constant spinning the pot around to not get a totally crooked stem.

Some other stuff i forgot to mentioned is the plants came from my girlfriends parents farm, they were a few months old when i got them and they have been outside since they were babys so they have been hardned aready.

The current mix i use is:

30% Coco coir

30% Organic potting soil

20% wormcast

20% 1/6 mix of perlite and vermiculite(majority being perlite)

1 tablespoon of bonemeal

1 teaspoon of bat guano in the topsoil

in a 2 gallon pot and they get a good soak once a week(Watered them 2 time a week before but they ended up overwatered)

I will take and post a picture later today/tomorrow so you can see how they look like when they recovered and are happy again

And this is the only spot they currently accept

 

[Caranx]

Sorry about the last two pics, it´s the first time i upload something here and have no idea why they ended up like that

 

[solid7]

Whoa, your mix is WAAAAAY too heavy.  Pretty much the equivalent of overwatering.  You're basically suffocating them.
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20% worm castings is already bad.  But if you added "topsoil" or "potting soil" to any container, that's the kicker.  Soil never goes into containers, unless they are humongous. 
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Try this:
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70% coco coir - rinsed and charged with calcium
25% perlite (NOT vermiculite)
5% worm castings
.
I would strongly suggest repotting these right away.

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

Sorta depends on what you call potting soil. Around here the stuff contains very little to no actual dirt but some brands may contain some compost. That is too much worm casting. I only use about 2 cups to a 7 gallon fabric pot.
 
Ive got a plant that droops a little everyday and the potting mix drains like a water fall. I suspect the fabric pot is getting hot at the peak of the day because the plant looks fine in the morning. Im going to give just the pot some shade and see if it helps because that one is in full sun all day. My others are not.

 

[austin87]

My plants in the past have wilted under full sun. Even large, healthy plants that have been in the sun all season.

Im not a soil expert like the guys above. But if your plant bounces back in the evening it might be because its hot and humid.

Can you get shade cloth in Thailand? Shade cloth comes in different grades to block part of the sun. Ive seen everything from 30-70% shade cloth (here in the states the % number refers to the percentage of sun blocked, so a lower number lets in more light).

You might try shade cloth over the plants, which will block part of the suns intense rays but still let them get filtered light, and also reduce temperature.

 

[solid7]

Can you get shade cloth in Thailand? Shade cloth comes in different grades to block part of the sun.

I think that's shade cloth that I see there in picture #1, stretching off the balcony railing...

 

[Caranx]

Whoa, your mix is WAAAAAY too heavy.  Pretty much the equivalent of overwatering.  You're basically suffocating them.
.
20% worm castings is already bad.  But if you added "topsoil" or "potting soil" to any container, that's the kicker.  Soil never goes into containers, unless they are humongous. 
.
Try this:
.
70% coco coir - rinsed and charged with calcium
25% perlite (NOT vermiculite)
5% worm castings
.
I would strongly suggest repotting these right away.
 

 
The mix is far from optimal but to say that they are currently drowning is weird to say if you read the OP. They did drown/suffocate during their first weeks in another medium and got a nutelock and everything that came with it. Since i changed to this mix they havent shown any signs of nutelocks and the last 3 set of new leaves are nicely green and they´ve grown fast in both height and new sidehoots ever since.
Or is your guess that they have a problem with directsunlight because compact soil?
 
I  really would like to change to a better medium, the thing is - i live in Southeast Asia since a few years back. The country i live in have very high import taxes which results in mostly domestic made products available(The product you import will basically increase 50-100% in price when the shipping is included, this makes importing stuff for this purpose not economical viable in the longrun. That combined with language barriers makes it extremely complicated for me to find stuff that in the western world can be found after a 15 minute drive to a shop or in worse case scenario a 2-4 days delivery time.  Just getting the crappy mix i´m currently using took me over a week, the vermiculite and perlite mix is simply because i refuse to buy pure quality perlite in bulk for approx 100 dollars just to be able to use it for a small grow like the one i´m planning.
 
So the results is that i dont expect to use a optimal potting mix, simply because the resources for it arent available here and the cost for importing it is just not worth it.
Most of the local Thaipeople who grow Chili both on personal and commercial scale use red dirt/clay mixed with gravel, that seems to be the standard for them.
 
However i will def repott them in a  week or two with less wormast and more coir. They have already been transplanted and gotten their roots washed 2 times in a 4  weeks span, feels like doing it again this close to the last transplants will stress them really bad.
 
After basically ransacking the physical shops and online alternatives in Thailand there seems to not be any CalMag sold here, The only options seems to be Calcium/boron that according to google translate says 12% calcium 2%boron 6%nitrogen and there is also being sold Calcium Nitrate that says 24% Calcium 15% nitrogen.
 
Would any of these do the job for charging the cococoir? Those are really the only options unless i wait until july when i will go to Europe to visit family which enables me to buy and bring back some proper liquid fertilizers and calmag.
 
Also the plan is to put one of these in a 5 gallon bucket SWC together with some other varietys later on to compare it to the ones in regular pots since SWC would be nice because as a non citizen i do have to leave the country every now and then and sometimes i might have problem finding someone who can water them on a regular basis.  Does a high part cocoir mix wick water ok?

 

[Caranx]

I did a 2 hour drive checking all the shops i could find on the island and this was the best i could find
 
One is calcium+boron and the other one is a magnesium complex(says 6% Mg0 on the back), would a mix of these be a somewhat substitute for charging the cococoir with calmag?
 
Couldnt find a physical store stocking calcium nitrate which seems to have higher calcium % and the one i found online will take minimum 7 days before i have it in my hands
 
 

 
 
 

 

[solid7]

1) The mix is far from optimal but to say that they are currently drowning is weird to say if you read the OP.

2) Or is your guess that they have a problem with directsunlight because compact soil?
3) So the results is that i dont expect to use a optimal potting mix, simply because the resources for it arent available here and the cost for importing it is just not worth it.
4) After basically ransacking the physical shops and online alternatives in Thailand there seems to not be any CalMag sold here, The only options seems to be Calcium/boron that according to google translate says 12% calcium 2%boron 6%nitrogen and there is also being sold Calcium Nitrate that says 24% Calcium 15% nitrogen.
5) Would any of these do the job for charging the cococoir? Those are really the only options unless i wait until july when i will go to Europe to visit family which enables me to buy and bring back some proper liquid fertilizers and calmag.
6) Also the plan is to put one of these in a 5 gallon bucket SWC

7) Does a high part cocoir mix wick water ok?

 
1) That's not what I said. I said it has the same net effect. See #2.
. 
2) Heavy mixes = compaction. Compaction closes off air spaces in the root zone.  When air temps rise, the oxygen becomes more sparse, and where oxygen was already scarce, it becomes virtually nonexistant.  No air = suffocation.  Suffocation is, in effect, the same thing as drowning.  You want that mix as airy as possible, especially if temps are higher. 
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3) I know that you have coco coir, worm castings, and rice hulls available.  I've seen other Thai members of the forum post as such.
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4) You don't need Cal-Mag.  If you're willing to go to a little trouble, you can make a Calcium Acetate solution with ground eggshells and vinegar.
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5) Not really.    Calcium nitrate comes closest, but I'd not use that.
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6) Look up "Hempy Buckets"  Build exactly like that, but fill with mix, instead of perlite.
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7) Yes, hence my suggestion, previously.

 

[Caranx]

3. Yeah as i wrote in the first post that what i have at home currently, will that be all that is needed?

4. Might try and make some of that, thanks for the tip.

6. The mix you mentioned in the first post but with ricehulls instead of perlite?


I dont really have access to any hydroponic/cocoir nutrient solution right now and it would take a week or two before i can get one delivered. Is what i'm using right now enough meanwhile(fishemulsion,guano tea e.tc)?

 

[solid7]

3. Yeah as i wrote in the first post that what i have at home currently, will that be all that is needed?

6. The mix you mentioned in the first post but with ricehulls instead of perlite?

3) That's all you need for the mix. Eventually, you'll have to feed the plants. Do they not sell fish fertilizer there?

6) Yes, that is correct.

 

[Caranx]

3) That's all you need for the mix. Eventually, you'll have to feed the plants. Do they not sell fish fertilizer there?

6) Yes, that is correct.

Edited my post at the same time as you replied.

What i'm able to use right now is fishemulsion, epsom salt, worm and bat guano tea. Will that be enough for a while until i managed to get some proper nutrient solution for cococoir?

 

[solid7]

There's no reason to use the epsom salt. That's just a thing that people often apply, without really knowing if the plant is deficient in what it contains. The bat guano might be good, depending on how it's balanced. But honestly, fish emulsion will carry you through that entire grow. (That being said, I'd still use the bat guano, albeit sparingly)
.
What I'm telling you is, don't waste your money on "proper" nutrient solutions. Most of them are market-driven. You've already got everything that you need for a successful grow. (nutrient wise)

 

[Caranx]

There's no reason to use the epsom salt. That's just a thing that people often apply, without really knowing if the plant is deficient in what it contains. The bat guano might be good, depending on how it's balanced. But honestly, fish emulsion will carry you through that entire grow. (That being said, I'd still use the bat guano, albeit sparingly)
.
What I'm telling you is, don't waste your money on "proper" nutrient solutions. Most of them are market-driven. You've already got everything that you need for a successful grow. (nutrient wise)

Sounds awesome that it's enough for a more pure cococoir mix since my plan from the beginning was to only use organic feed.

Decided that i will do the transplant on monday.
Bought some new cococoir from the shop where i found that calcium boron stuff, Tiny bit pricier(still barely 1 dollar per kg) but looked much better compared to what i've been buying before which had ALOT of strains compared to actual fiber in it.

Did a rinse tonight using the two bucket method and after 60 liters the water was becoming much cleaner, will do a final rinse tomorrow.

 

[solid7]

If it is any motivation to you, I grew this freakshow in a 5 gallon bucket, using the method I described to you. (although I used perlite) For the first part of it's life, it got nothing but fish. I switched to CNS17 later.
.

.
Small plant, not many branches, but every branch loaded to the hilt with nice fruit.  No "bloom" nutes required.

 

[Caranx]

If it is any motivation to you, I grew this freakshow in a 5 gallon bucket, using the method I described to you. (although I used perlite) For the first part of it's life, it got nothing but fish. I switched to CNS17 later.
.

.
Small plant, not many branches, but every branch loaded to the hilt with nice fruit.  No "bloom" nutes required.

 
 
 
That´s a nice cluster of peppers right there  
The hempty bucket you used is just a bucket with a hole in the bottomside right? Do you have any experience with the double bucket method with netcup?
 
I dont expect too much this year, it´s my first time growing peppers and the only past grow experience i have is when i was growing cannabis 10+ years ago. Now i´m older and stopped smoking and i love spicy food so peppers seemed like the right substitute for the weed growing. However i have the climate on my side, 12/12 light all year around and temperature never dropping below 25 celcious so they can grow old as long as i or the bugs dont manage to kill them ! However we do have a 4-6 month monsoon season that is on it´s way, but it should be okey since they can be moved to the roofed area.
 
The plan is to fill out that small space infront of my house in the first pic of the thread. 3*4 meters so should be able to squeeze in 7-10 plants. Also have a roofed area/driveway where i will have a table for seedlings. When i´m doing my family visit in july i´m gonna stock up on mostly chinense varietys that i will germinate as soon as i get back to Thailand.
 
 
 

 

 

[solid7]

That´s a nice cluster of peppers right there
The hempty bucket you used is just a bucket with a hole in the bottomside right? Do you have any experience with the double bucket method with netcup?

 
Yes, I know of the double bucket method.  I find it to be a bit too wasteful for my liking. I would sooner wrap the outside of a bucket with aluminum foil (to repel sunlight) or fabric, than go double bucket.  Buckets cost money, or time to acquire. 
'
If you don't want to fill the bottom of the bucket with perlite or rice hulls for drainage, You can also put a plastic container, turned upside down, in the bottom of the bucket.  Just make sure that the (inverted) bottom of the plastic container, is above the drain hole.  You want air space, after all.  I did a few like that with plastic runoff trays for potted plants.  Although you can get creative, and use just about anything. (or even multiples of something)
.
For SIP (SWC is actually a misnomer), I much prefer large totes, with drain pipe as the reservoir.  I have built a few that were similar to this:
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http://albopepper.com/30-gallon-tote.php
. 
I raised a monster 7 pot bubblegum in one of those. It got killed in a hurricane.  Here are 2 pics of it, before and after hurricane.
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and here it is, after sustaining what proved to be mortal damage. (I'm guessing salt spray)
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EDIT: On second glance, it actually recovered from that hurricane, and I lost it in the next one. The first pic was what it looked like after I pruned back all of the branches, and it was starting to bush back out. I lost it last September, after almost 4 years of continuous outdoor growth.

 

[Caranx]

Thanks for all the info! The transplant got postponed a few days. Got in contact with a another local foreigner in a facebook group that could spare me a 10l liter bag of perlite so will pick that up tomorrow!

Hopefully a few this year will survive and grow as big as the one in your picture!

This is the current state of my plants, hopefully they will be transplanted tomorrow evening

And here are some pics i took today of a larger local street grow that i drive by sometimes, looks like they are still going strong even if the rain has been insane the past 2 weeks

 

[jalapeno15]

Damn that street chill forest is impressive     

 

[ShowMeDaSauce]

Looks like the are using plastic laundry baskets as pots.