Annie's 2014 Glog: MoA ferments

Barley-pop57 · Jul 23, 2014

Ms. Annie,

Since your injury it seems your neighbors are taking it easy on you...lol I'm use to hearing of some crazy happenings in your glog. Anyway it sounds like things are going good for you....good meals, garden doing well, you healing up and some nice pics of plants. Hope i didn't jinx you....lol

Glad to see & read things going good for you !!!!

Sawyer · Jul 23, 2014

Hey, Annie, loving your updates here. I found the "neck pumpkin" info interesting. I had already settled on moschatas for SVB resistance and winter keeping quality, but only had regular butternut and Greek Sweet Red. I'm adding the PA Dutch Crookneck (do you agree this is the same as neck pumpkin?) and the Tahitian. There's some discussion about those being the same, but I'll try both and see. I'm particularly interested in their long-keeping qualities, which is why I also grow shallots and potato onions. I just found the Navajo Winter Melon, a long-keeping watermelon I'm going to try, too. (Drought resistance is a plus.)

annie57 · Jul 24, 2014

Devv said:
From what I've read the manure you don't want is from meat eaters. But in Germany when Mom was growing up they used used human sewage to fertilize the orchids. Probably wasn't a field one would want to take a shortcut through

True: nor be an orchid picker. :shocked:

Still going on in Guatemala vis a vis orchids; in Dominican Republic in cane fields, workers have no porta-juans. Rice plantations back in day in Lowcountry? Kinda puts new spin on Hilton Headers when they bemoan the loss of their rice-age. "Did cracklins count as meat, y'all?" My fear, relative to hospital waste, is for instance, oncology dept. But then, as I told my brother, as he was getting ready to go load up some in his truck: "At least you'll be able to see ya field at night." The man stopped and said, "Who's your contact up at the ranch?" We went and picked up couple truckloads horse and goat poo. But I could be overly cautious.

BTW, LOVE, LOVE Funkies load up-color-up. If they do more of their thing, might just start a ferment with them soon. One Funkster has regular Reaper type pods. S'okay. I have about 4 plants and Funky is the best tasting, imo, of the Reapers.

AND that Bhut x Y7, such yellow inside, is delicious: definite overtones of Y7. Really pretty interior! One had less Y7 inside--probably Douglah cross, had tad less Y7 taste, but saved those seeds too! Thank you! Did Charles tell you generation of those? (I have one yellow bhut with red pods, planted near Red Moruga last year, and one Y7 with red pods.) "My name's Jamie and I'm a Nonaholic." I think my choc barrackpore are regular dark red. I'm hoping they turn red before going to brown, but if not--Madballz coloring right :party:

Saved seeds from Jigsaw: on second attempt, when my uncle came in, stayed with me over long weekend (he was into pepper garden) for family fish-fry, we killed your box, and treated Jigsaw with healthy respect. Has very decent flavor . . . in small slivers with food. Need to get some pics up but unk just left.

HillBilly Jeff said:
Looking good Annie!!!

Thanks, Jeff! Your Burg 7 seed is starting to turn appropriate color! :dance:

romy6 said:
I got some seeds saved with your name on them Mrs Annie . Loving the garden shots and hoping your foot heals fast .

Stay thirsty my friend

Lol, "stay fiery my friend."

OH, SWEETJAMIE-CLAUS! Thank you dearest, most wonderfulest honey-pie!

(Okay, over top but given those gorgeous crosses and your "Lava that ate the house:" Not.) "Ain't too proud to beg, sweet darlin.'" Gorgeous crosses, hon. Also, thank you for inspiration to love my nons! Thanks for responding to my subtle hint. :shh:

Am killing more roots of Maple back--chemicals in fall, drill into roots, which will include some chopping with double-bit axe, but 'at's okay. Trying to get 3 more rows out of garden. (More work, but that's okay.) Again, thank you, Jamie!

Sawyer said:
Hey, Annie, loving your updates here. I found the "neck pumpkin" info interesting. I had already settled on moschatas for SVB resistance and winter keeping quality, but only had regular butternut and Greek Sweet Red. I'm adding the PA Dutch Crookneck (do you agree this is the same as neck pumpkin?) and the Tahitian. There's some discussion about those being the same, but I'll try both and see. I'm particularly interested in their long-keeping qualities, which is why I also grow shallots and potato onions. I just found the Navajo Winter Melon, a long-keeping watermelon I'm going to try, too. (Drought resistance is a plus.)

Hiya, John! Actually, Neck Pumpkin, PA Dutch and Tahitian are same thing, I think, some some variation, but slight. Gotta try that Greek Sweet Red from Baker/rareseeds. Is that where you got your seed? I've tried different winter squash/pumpkin but they all go down to SVB. The Navajo Winter Watermelon, looks fascinating too. 4 months?? Eh, last long enough to slice for me.

The runners on those neck pumpkin are mind-blowing. After a few fruit set, I generally (and am getting ready to do so) cut back the 30 feet vine when got enough blossoms for fruit. (30' is enough, already, but am convinced they'd run several miles if allowed.) Needs to quit raining so I can pull most summer squash--people are running from me--and cukes--let the winter squash have full reign.

Also, have a question for you to ponder, since nobody who sells wheat straw wants to answer me, really. And internet's not yielding much info. Around here, they grow wheat and rye straw and after harvest, hit the stalks/stubble with Glyphosate, bundle, sell or if ya help, give. BUT if this pd.f will link, pigweed is a problem in wheat and wheat straw; Glyphosate won't kill it: pdf Here's another. "We bale up several hundred acres of wheat stubble with pigweed/crabgrass/johnson grass in it. It won't be the best feed but it'll have to do." Well, not looking for feed but . . . my neighbor suggested wheat straw as culprit, but I dismissed him, initially. Said thought wheat straw was bringing IN Gyphosate resistant pigweed. Now, if putting over lawns, no garden, can mow that but it spreads to people who do have gardens. Would like your take on this. I had no pigweed before wheat straw applications began couple years ago. Had few weeds like Bermuda and crab, johnson. But I can take care of that with season kill, pine straw or buy dump of pine mulch from reputable company, with cardboard, etc. What's your status with pigweed? Was this area just due for the resistant mess since it's come to most of Southeast now? Or did I hasten down that wind with wheat straw, maybe? Thanks, John!

stickman · Jul 24, 2014

Hope you don't mind me chiming in miz Annie... it seems likely you did get the pigweed together with the wheat straw. It's a form of Amaranth that has Thousands of tiny seeds per plant, and as this article from the Kansas extension says, they can be spread across a field or into others by a combine. If the straw left behind by the combine is just baled up and sold, then the seeds go with it. We have lots of pigweed around here, but mostly deal with it by cultivation... go in there and chop those suckers out. Probably the best thing you could do to prevent the spread is to pull up all the plants and burn them. You wouldn't need to burn if you get them before they flower, but afterwards you don't want to take any chances. http://kansasagnetwork.com/2014/palmer-amaranth-increasingly-taking-hold-in-western-and-central-parts-of-kansas/

Sawyer · Jul 24, 2014

Hi, Annie, yes, Baker's was/is my source for the Greek Sweet Red. The ones I had going were significantly more vigorous than the generic Butternut, but the deer has eaten all the leaves off both plantings. I don't know if they will recover.

I don't know about your pigweed problems. It does sound (and read) like the wheat straw could have been the source. I have pigweed (redroot, I think) in my garden but it's no more nor less of a problem than the lamb's quarters, and significantly less of a problem than Johnson grass. It's easy to kill the seedlings with hand-weeding or cultivation and the larger plants pull up fairly easily if the soil isn't too dry. As I mentioned in my glog recently, I thought I was being clever by leaving a few pigweed plants to grow as a trap/decoy for striped cucumber beetles, to divert them away from my cucurbits, but then I discovered the "striped cucumber beetles" are actually pigweed flea beetles. :doh:

Removing the pigweed has largely eliminated those particular flea beetles from the garden.

For me glyphosate resistance isn't an issue, since I'm not going to use that anyway. From a larger perspective, glyphosate-resistant weeds are an entirely foreseeable consequence of current herbicide-dependent, no-till, Roundup-ready agriculture. What Monsanto did with GM techniques for agricultural crops, natural selection is doing for weeds. Eventually, too many weeds will be resistant and agri-business will have to move on to something else.

Rick's response showed up while I was typing this, and, yes, what he said. Pull them up before they go to seed. From this .pdf, "Those seeds that do not germinate at once can remain viable in the soil up to 10 years or more." So I'm screwed, since I let parts of the garden go wild for a couple of years. I'm trying to keep the weeds under check from here on, but one slip can cost dearly. On the other hand, in the second link you provided, someone states that pigweed is a nitrogen accumulator, so the plants could be considered a good source of natural mulch or compost ingredient, as long as you don't let them go to seed.

JJJessee · Jul 24, 2014

I've pulled 3-4 pigweeds from my row garden. Ain't seen it yet in the raised beds. It's easy pulled from damp ground if you catch it before the thorny stage.
I'd say it is a good compost if you catch it young without a chance of seed.
Buying straw from a clean source would be pretty hard these days.

annie57 · Jul 24, 2014

stickman said:
Hope you don't mind me chiming in miz Annie... it seems likely you did get the pigweed together with the wheat straw. It's a form of Amaranth that has Thousands of tiny seeds per plant, and as this article from the Kansas extension says, they can be spread across a field or into others by a combine. If the straw left behind by the combine is just baled up and sold, then the seeds go with it. We have lots of pigweed around here, but mostly deal with it by cultivation... go in there and chop those suckers out. Probably the best thing you could do to prevent the spread is to pull up all the plants and burn them. You wouldn't need to burn if you get them before they flower, but afterwards you don't want to take any chances. http://kansasagnetwork.com/2014/palmer-amaranth-increasingly-taking-hold-in-western-and-central-parts-of-kansas/

“The use of effective pre-emergence residual herbicides is probably going to be very important to help manage Palmer amaranth in the future . . ." Actually, in NC the future is now. And since those pre-emergant uses are primarily for mono-crop systems, none fit a home gardener's multi-crop situation . . . yeah: they thought they'd died, gone to heaven when they got RoundupReady but . . . called Southern States this afternoon; they can get me about 50 lbs. corn gluten meal for reasonable: since I PLANTED it OR it just happened, since has "happened" everywhere else. I've pulled this mess for 2 years now, whew. Pulled and pulled. Kudzu has a growth competitor. Thanks, Rick!

Sawyer said:
Hi, Annie, yes, Baker's was/is my source for the Greek Sweet Red. The ones I had going were significantly more vigorous than the generic Butternut, but the deer has eaten all the leaves off both plantings. I don't know if they will recover.

I don't know about your pigweed problems. It does sound (and read) like the wheat straw could have been the source. I have pigweed (redroot, I think) in my garden but it's no more nor less of a problem than the lamb's quarters, and significantly less of a problem than Johnson grass. It's easy to kill the seedlings with hand-weeding or cultivation and the larger plants pull up fairly easily if the soil isn't too dry. As I mentioned in my glog recently, I thought I was being clever by leaving a few pigweed plants to grow as a trap/decoy for striped cucumber beetles, to divert them away from my cucurbits, but then I discovered the "striped cucumber beetles" are actually pigweed flea beetles. Removing the pigweed has largely eliminated those particular flea beetles from the garden.

For me glyphosate resistance isn't an issue, since I'm not going to use that anyway. From a larger perspective, glyphosate-resistant weeds are an entirely foreseeable consequence of current herbicide-dependent, no-till, Roundup-ready agriculture. What Monsanto did with GM techniques for agricultural crops, natural selection is doing for weeds. Eventually, too many weeds will be resistant and agri-business will have to move on to something else.

Rick's response showed up while I was typing this, and, yes, what he said. Pull them up before they go to seed. From this .pdf, "Those seeds that do not germinate at once can remain viable in the soil up to 10 years or more." So I'm screwed, since I let parts of the garden go wild for a couple of years. I'm trying to keep the weeds under check from here on, but one slip can cost dearly. On the other hand, in the second link you provided, someone states that pigweed is a nitrogen accumulator, so the plants could be considered a good source of natural mulch or compost ingredient, as long as you don't let them go to seed.

Dang, John from that pdf, it only grows in "gardens, waterways, roadsides, waste areas, orchards, and cropland." So, it doesn't grow on pavement? Neat: I can pour cement, j-hammer out planting holes in it . . . and pigweed will come up through that 1/1000th inch of space :dance:

. Thing they don't say is that they don't have to be 4' tall to have seed: they are born with seed clusters. (Give them a week once up!) Am gonna try corn gluten meal as pre-emerge, and call company I trust for pine mulch next year. Drop a dump-truck of it and at least keep it sorta back. (In my dreams.) Which beats pulling and burning EVERY 3 days and still, ya miss some! Had some hiding beneath a canopy of winter squash last year, all seeded up. Really an a-hole plant, y'all. I doubt want to compost because entire plant has aleopathic properties. Sure do wish I could, for sheer bulk and nitrogen, but roots couldn't get hot enough in compost pile to reduce that aspect, don't think. I mean, it's part twig/woody. My bet on why RUReady was failing in second "miracle" year, as it was just making for a sturdier woody aspect in root that the plant already had: Glyphosate won't work on woody brush, twigs, etc. Unsafe for grazers to eat; has killed goats when folks have released goats to work on kudzu. (Must taste good to goats.) Is there any positive? CABRITO! Yes; let's all eat toxic baby goat! See? Trying to have sense of humor about it. OH, and I loathe lamb's quarters as well, but they're decent enough not to grow a 6 inches per day in drought. :rolleyes:

Even johnson and crabgrass are remotely "civil" plants. But this pigweed problem is man-made as many amaranth plantings are thousands of years old practices--seeds used to be an Aztec religious treat when mixed with human blood :cool:

. . . thanks, John!

Barley-pop57 · Jul 24, 2014

Wow is there anything out there that isn't invasive !!! Just when it appeared it was going better for you :shocked:

annie57 · Jul 25, 2014

Barley-pop57 said:
Wow is there anything out there that isn't invasive !!! Just when it appeared it was going better for you

It's been here, JerkyMON! Just now looking for solutions and what may have made it worse! Thanks, dear!

maximumcapsicum · Jul 25, 2014

Aww man sorry to here about the pigweed. What a pain!

annie57 · Jul 25, 2014

JJJessee said:
I've pulled 3-4 pigweeds from my row garden. Ain't seen it yet in the raised beds. It's easy pulled from damp ground if you catch it before the thorny stage.
I'd say it is a good compost if you catch it young without a chance of seed.
Buying straw from a clean source would be pretty hard these days.

3-4? I'd say you didn't buy straw for past several years. Got word finally from NCSU: yes; wheat straw, locally (NC), is infested with Palmer and Redroot seed. (I'd move that from "pretty hard" to impossible.) But if you've only had 3-4, that's excellent. Yes; it's easily pulled from damp ground . . . contingent upon how much one has of it. Easy but time-consuming when "planted" with mulch. :rofl:

And it should be bagged or burned or both. And didn't know this, but the Redroot is pretty easily managed, MUCH more so than Palmer. I just keep increasing the space I don't have to mow with burn-downs! Those storms we had yesterday afternoon--spent 3 hours "trying" to fix maters this morning--cages blown over. Iron pipe, rebar from Hades: got lightening rods in that garden; just need a kite and a quart jar to kill pigweed @ next storm. But also got a ton of maters. Afraid of LAST year, didn't go with many heirlooms but one Mortgage Lifter had to weigh 3 lbs. Dinner tonight with a salt shaker!

maximumcapsicum said:
Aww man sorry to here about the pigweed. What a pain!

It's not made it's way UP from under raised beds yet. But with management, it won't. But a little seed survived from last year in r-beds mulched w/wheat straw, ugh but easy to see and pull. It's not so bad in new pepper garden, but then, it wasn't "so bad" first year I used wheat straw either. Also used oat straw in r-beds this year, and in pepper garden, so . . . maybe oat straw source was different. :liar

: If anything, I'm determined, I suppose! Thanks, Adam!

annie57 · Jul 26, 2014

While waiting for ribs to come remotely close to room temp, shot few pics of pepper garden (and ate [nibbled]).

Madballz burgundy (I hope it goes more burgundy like bros to right but if not . . .) seeds from Jason/Jamie:

Stefan's Pimenta Lisa (orange):

Canopy of Pimenta Lisa (purple); but so? These taste AMAZING!

Anns2014Glog7-26PimentaLisapurplecanopy_zps750ff488.jpg

The beloved JA Hab (Ramon/Walkgood):

Not-Douglah or is 7 Pod Brown x Naga in early formation or is Red Jonah, but will be good!

Yeller Brains (bigger ones but not turning yet):

Burgundy 7 (H-billy Jeff pods/seed):

And some of the babies that went into Jal popper cheese mix (for me): FUNKIES! (Scott)

I lost a white 7; my only one to the asshat who JUST HAD to spray herbicide with wind blowing toward garden. Revenge? Who me? :cool:

And a few early shots: halved ribs since I double bacon wrapped poppers. During the stack stage, poppers gonna have to go on low and slow, same grill since have other one set up for corn in husks.

Ribs just on:

And ~~poppers~~ bacon, with rub:

Menu: ribs, uber bacon jal poppers, roasted corn (my brother's), maybe some elotes, made cuke-dill salad couple days ago: fixing dinner for folks since Daddy was aching for a reason (who needs a reason?) to buy a few watermelon. (I do have some watermelon children but not ripe yet.)

Thanks for looking!

stickman · Jul 26, 2014

Very cool looking pods and foodies miz Annie... that'll get the waterworks flowing... all of 'em!

How much longer before you can jettison the boot?

annie57 · Jul 26, 2014

stickman said:
Very cool looking pods and foodies miz Annie... that'll get the waterworks flowing... all of 'em! How much longer before you can jettison the boot?

Yeah, early Funky powder too on one of those spares, blended with small portion rub. :tear:

Great tasting Reaper but went a tad overboard on my spares with powder; just fresh pods (did not deseed) in my part of popper cheese mix. . . oh well. :dance:

(Or at least I hope I put that powder on spares . . . my father would kill me.) That Burg 7 (slivers only) tasted amazingly sweet too. It "fell" off.

Thanks Rick! Oh the boot? Uh, I chose another boot. Not medically advised and makes me walk funny, but will slap the "advised" back on after take this stuff to folks.' :rolleyes:

Barley-pop57 · Jul 26, 2014

What no invite to good eatin's......looks good both peppers and food !!!! Between you & Jamie....well you know how to eat well besides having green thumbs.to boot. I expect an invite for the next feed bag...LOL

annie57 · Jul 26, 2014

Since have gone this far and then back to the ice routine to foot.

Poppers done (burned mouth on one of these before they got to a table):

Ribs done (got a tad carried away with rub, Bourbon Fatalii Apple Butter glaze, and honey):

I charred my corn with butter, Kevin/Wayright's SBonnet salt, and my meat powder. Folks just wanted theirs steamed.

See? MY corn! Literally, eating this beside grill.

Folks were thrilled . . . and Daddy mostly ate watermelon. (Like kid with toy at Christmas and they play with box or wrapping paper. :rofl:

).

Thanks!

Sawyer · Jul 27, 2014

Nice pod and chow pics, Annie. I haven't eaten yet today, so this is going to be short.

Speaking of pigweed allelopathy, there is an interesting review paper here (pdf). It's mostly about the allelopathic effects of pigweed, but at least a couple of paragraphs talk about allelopathic effects of other plants against pigweed. (Rice hulls inhibit A. sp. germination, but stimulate growth.)

And here's a paper (pdf) that deals exclusively with using other plants to allelopathically inhibit the germination and growth of pigweed. For some of the plants tested, Castor bean, Datura, Tobacco, Oleander, the cure might be worse than the disease, but Sorghum looks like a viable plant ally in your battle. Sunflower is mentioned in the introduction for use against Chenopodium, not Amaranthus, but they are related so that might be worth a shot, too.

annie57 · Jul 27, 2014

Sawyer said:
Nice pod and chow pics, Annie. I haven't eaten yet today, so this is going to be short.

Speaking of pigweed allelopathy, there is an interesting review paper here (pdf). It's mostly about the allelopathic effects of pigweed, but at least a couple of paragraphs talk about allelopathic effects of other plants against pigweed. (Rice hulls inhibit A. sp. germination, but stimulate growth.)

And here's a paper (pdf) that deals exclusively with using other plants to allelopathically inhibit the germination and growth of pigweed. For some of the plants tested, Castor bean, Datura, Tobacco, Oleander, the cure might be worse than the disease, but Sorghum looks like a viable plant ally in your battle. Sunflower is mentioned in the introduction for use against Chenopodium, not Amaranthus, but they are related so that might be worth a shot, too.

So far am chuckling about the "evil" Datura--since I had a plant--that turned into many, until I dug it them up (they multiply)--sounds like an easy enough extract, if could get away from air-drying, but drying on lowest setting of dehydrator. Just using that one as example. But I know "baccer" farmers down east would just LUV me raiding their fields for Bright Leaf in flower! THIS is a KEEPER article, John! I need to study it more; might require me to make nice with ex's mother, since she she has "folks" (se hablan español) growing Bright Leaf on 50 acres; but then, those workers don't like her either . . . :idea:

hmm . . . thank you SO much for both articles. I still need to study more. Lots more. Sadly, Burley has already flowered around here . . . but although not a good mulch against p-weed, bet folks would love for me to raid a barn and "fire cure" it on my gardens! (I need your number in event EPA arrests me.) What about TMVirus? Thanks again, so much!

Sawyer · Jul 28, 2014

I had a datura volunteer in my garden one year, many years ago. It had a... presence. It must have been frost-killed before the seeds matured, though, because I never had another.

I keep anything with tobacco and its extract away from all members of Solanaceae, peppers included. I tried an extract spray once on flea beetles on potatoes and the whole row of potatoes died. Maybe just using it as a mulch wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk.

annie57 · Jul 28, 2014

I had a datura volunteer in my garden one year, many years ago. It had a... presence. It must have been frost-killed before the seeds matured, though, because I never had another.

I keep anything with tobacco and its extract away from all members of Solanaceae, peppers included. I tried an extract spray once on flea beetles on potatoes and the whole row of potatoes died. Maybe just using it as a mulch wouldn't be a problem, but I'm not sure it's worth the risk.

John, my Datura were the kind that survived moves in winter, completely demolished a newly planted perennial flower bed--killed Black-Eyed Susans so . . . it had to go. I have no doubt the thing would have stopped pigweed in tracks but like the tobacco spray, naw: not worth risk to stuff I want to keep. "Hey, I killed pigweed and everything else!"

Got some pics: foot prevents me from doing too much at one time, bending and snapping shots is harder than slapping ribs on grill (obviously, as I let some get a bit too much heat).

BOC baby pod (plant sent by Jason/GA Growhead since mine just died in 6 pack cells, prob operator error in watering):

Also Brown Egg sent by Jason:

Choc Scorp with twin stinger and friendly spider, big'un:

Choc Barrackpore turning brown from red:

Stinger on YCARDI:

Big Bishop's Crown:

Yellow Moruga and Giant YBrains (since the Y7s are red):

A couple Stefan's/Meatfeak Naples maters, absolutely delicious:

And some SERIOUS Bubblegum calyx questions (have more pics of adults):

Baby pod, plant 1: