fermenting Another First Masher Here

[SoHot]

Good afternoon Pepper's. 
 
I made my firsts batches before I found this forum. I just found a couple recipes online and picked one to try. Thankfully I found this site because I like to be able to talk to the experienced and follow the beginners like myself and see their successes and failures to learn by. I've been reading a lot of the forum the past few days and it's full of good info. Anyway...
 
I'm growing jalapeno, tabasco and Cheyenne peppers. I'm mostly looking to make sliced jalapenos and "Louisiana" style hot sauce. I don't have any peppers ready so I bought some jalapenos to do a winter test run to get my feet wet. 
 
Wanted to run by y'all what I did and get your thoughts. 
 
Batch one. Is Jalapeno mash. I blended a bunch of jalapenos and added 7.5% by weight of sea salt. That's all I did and put it in a quart mason jar and put on an Airlock top and put it in the pantry. Today is day 10. I'm not seeing it rise like I've seen in some pics of peoples mash. But other than that I think it looks ok. No kahm or mold or anything. 
 
Batch two. Is a Lacto. I put sliced jalapenos in quart mason jar and mixed a brine of 1 quart of warm distilled water and three tablespoons of sea salt. Dissolved and let cool. Poured the brine of the peppers and placed a glass weight on top and spooned off any floating seeds. Placed an Airlock on it and put in the pantry. 10 days in today.So far no issues at all. Everything looks good. Not sure to know when they're ready? 
 
Any major thoughts or concerns y'all see? Any major changes I should make? I have a few more jars and Airlocks so I can easily start another batch for some test runs. 
 
Thanks! 

 

[Thegreenchilemonster]

Pics would help a bit, but 7.5% salt seems heavy. I do less than half of that for no brine mashes, with uncontaminated results. I'm sure you can smooth out the salinity with extra ingredients, once you make your final sauce.

 

[Mr.CtChilihead]

Salt is high but not unheard of..My first mashes I ran high..Now I go for 4 %salt of ingredient weight..And just enough brine to cover veggies after they've soaked an hour or so..Most the time I add little to no liquid..And some sea salt contains anti caking agents..Pickling canning salt is the way to go..And welcome to the madness..

 

[amfarms17]

Brine Mash sounds right. Its all I do, a 5% brine. Ready is when the bubbles stop but not really if that makes sense. We ferment all stuff AT LEAST a month, some longer but have made some stuff after a week when trying a new recipe.

 

[SoHot]

Thanks! Here are the pics. First one is day one. Took the other 2 this morning. I spoke too soon about there not being any growth. Looks like there is a white substance forming around the edge. I only see it on the edge and nowhere else. Sorry about the sideways pics. Forgot iPhone does that

 

[Thegreenchilemonster]

I would recommend eliminating most of that head space on your next batch of ferments. Too much head space can be a breeding ground for nasties yo thrive.

 

[SoHot]

Ok I said screw it I have supplies to make another batch so thats what I did. Been reading the 101 and searching the forum the last couple days. I almost bought a probiotic but those no I need to stick to the simple mashes for now and see how it goes. So I did 4% Mortons pickling salt. Used a glass weight and poured a little distilled water on top to cover everything and got rid of the extra head space. Hopefully I left enough head space and dont have a blow out. Well see how it goes.

 

[jhc]

Welcome to the forum SoHot!

I wonder what the forum experts say about a pure green Jalapeno ferment... enough sugars in the peppers alone?

 

[amfarms17]

I've done Jalapeno ferments with no issues.

 

[SoHot]

Looks like both of my mashes are failures. The pic is from the first one only. I'm assuming this is some type of mold and not kahm? I know I screwed up with the head space and I opened it a couple times. 
 
On the second one. The last pic I posted from making the second batch. I took out the head space and never opened it. I have no white spots on the mash at all. But above it I have 3-4 blackish spots on the jar so I know that's mold. Not sure what I did wrong here. 
 
I don't mind trashing these as I'm new and trying to learn, and especially since these were just bought peppers as mine aren't grown yet. I was just trying to start simple to do a test run and make a simple jalapeno mash ferment to get my feet wet. Back to researching...
 
 

 

[jhc]

I'm a ferment noob too but from what I've read the biggest risk for mold is having oxygen in the headspace. You'd get rid of the oxygen faster with less head space and probably also if your ferments has started more robustly and sooner (the lacto creating CO2 which then displaces the oxygen).

I'd say why not use a probiotic, or some other starter, to get things going more quickly?

 

[jhc]

I'll also say from that pic it's hard to say mold vs kahm. Is it fuzzy?

 

[Genetikx]

Hey SoHot, you're off to a great start and I bet learning a bunch. Thanks for posting everything about your process. Love the bright green!!

I'm going to say something that's probably controversial... But can we make a rule that if your sauce or ferment is growing ANYTHING, It should be tossed?

Kahm may be ok but I'd rather not eat it and you'd rather your sauce not have it. Moreso, I really don't want to receive sauce from someone that head what they thought was kahm, but maybe wasn't. I just don't think it's worth the risk.

 

[amfarms17]

While Kahm maybe ok, it will effect the taste, trial and error just as your doing is how i learned. Cheap jalapenos and serranos from the grocery store is the way i learned, rather toss some jalapenos than say reapers you spent months growing. Its still some what vodoo. take some good notes on what you make and how you made it. When I started had two jars made EXACTLY the same at the same time, one got mold and the other didn't.  Kept working it out and ended up with a GREAT serrano sauce recipe outta the process, Make some fermented onions as well, goes great when adding to sauces made.  

 

[patrad]

Here are some thoughts.  I do jalapenos all the time.
 
- I usually do 5% salt almost across the board.  Get a scale that measures in grams and it's super easy.  If you have 1 liter of water, then put in 50 grams of salt and it's 5%.  35 grams of salt would be 3.5%.  7.5 would be 7.5%.  I always use canning salt as it dissolves quick without heating the water.
- I agree reduce head space but eliminating oxygen is also great.  I tried the airlock setup you have and I never, ever, saw any activity.  I've switched to this type and I love them.  You can literally pump the oxygen out.  Here is an active bunch of mine on day 3 after I pumped the airlock a few times.
- I'd also say pick a jar size you like and get some nice weights.  I messed around with those glass disc ones for a while but I finally decided I'm always fermenting in 1/2 gallon jars so I got some nice ceramic ones that fit that size jar perfectly.
- I'd agree that if anything is growing toss it.
- If you are having starting problems make sure it's not your chlorinated/choloramine water.  Try some "natural spring water" and not distilled.
- If you are having starting problems throw some cabbage in.  If you cut out the core of a cabbage and dice it, it is rich with starting bacteria.  Or get some vegetable starter.  I like caldwell's.  Personally I never tried lacto but I have a taste aversion to some things I know are lacto fermented
- Also, I think your mashes may be more interesting if you added some garlic and or onions. 
 
 
 

 

[SoHot]

Thanks for the replies. I'm going to go ahead and scrap these and start over. I hadn't heard about using a probiotic or starter until I found this site. I started a arbol chili mash a couple weeks ago and used a probiotic and everything seems to be going good with it so far. Anyway. Down the drain with these and going to start a new jalapeno mash this weekend. Thanks for all y'alls help!  

 

[jhc]

Here are some thoughts.  I do jalapenos all the time.
 
- I usually do 5% salt almost across the board.  Get a scale that measures in grams and it's super easy.  If you have 1 liter of water, then put in 50 grams of salt and it's 5%.  35 grams of salt would be 3.5%.  7.5 would be 7.5%.  I always use canning salt as it dissolves quick without heating the water.
- I agree reduce head space but eliminating oxygen is also great.  I tried the airlock setup you have and I never, ever, saw any activity.  I've switched to this type and I love them.  You can literally pump the oxygen out.  Here is an active bunch of mine on day 3 after I pumped the airlock a few times.
- I'd also say pick a jar size you like and get some nice weights.  I messed around with those glass disc ones for a while but I finally decided I'm always fermenting in 1/2 gallon jars so I got some nice ceramic ones that fit that size jar perfectly.
- I'd agree that if anything is growing toss it.
- If you are having starting problems make sure it's not your chlorinated/choloramine water.  Try some "natural spring water" and not distilled.
- If you are having starting problems throw some cabbage in.  If you cut out the core of a cabbage and dice it, it is rich with starting bacteria.  Or get some vegetable starter.  I like caldwell's.  Personally I never tried lacto but I have a taste aversion to some things I know are lacto fermented
- Also, I think your mashes may be more interesting if you added some garlic and or onions. 
 
 
 

Caldwell is a lacto starter, so if you've tried it, you've tried lacto. It's also, at minimum, 50X more expensive than a Cultrelle probiotic capsule.

 

[patrad]

Caldwell is a lacto starter, so if you've tried it, you've tried lacto. It's also, at minimum, 50X more expensive than a Cultrelle probiotic capsule.

 

Interesting.  For some reason I thought it was different starters.  I agree it's expensive!  Lately I've just been recycling brine or using a bit of chopped cabbage.

 

[jhc]

 
Interesting.  For some reason I thought it was different starters.  I agree it's expensive!  Lately I've just been recycling brine or using a bit of chopped cabbage.

Haha, guess it depends how we are defining lacto. From Caldwell's own description:
" Lacto fermentation (also known as lactic acid fermentation) is a traditional method of conserving food."

It's true there are three different lactic-acid creating bacteria in the Caldwell product and only one is a Lactobacillus species. Does it make any difference compared to Culterelle, which is a single, different Lactobacillus species? No idea. But my wallet has spoken

 

[SoHot]

Here are some thoughts.  I do jalapenos all the time.
 
- I usually do 5% salt almost across the board.  Get a scale that measures in grams and it's super easy.  If you have 1 liter of water, then put in 50 grams of salt and it's 5%.  35 grams of salt would be 3.5%.  7.5 would be 7.5%.  I always use canning salt as it dissolves quick without heating the water.
- I agree reduce head space but eliminating oxygen is also great.  I tried the airlock setup you have and I never, ever, saw any activity.  I've switched to this type and I love them.  You can literally pump the oxygen out.  Here is an active bunch of mine on day 3 after I pumped the airlock a few times.
- I'd also say pick a jar size you like and get some nice weights.  I messed around with those glass disc ones for a while but I finally decided I'm always fermenting in 1/2 gallon jars so I got some nice ceramic ones that fit that size jar perfectly.
- I'd agree that if anything is growing toss it.
- If you are having starting problems make sure it's not your chlorinated/choloramine water.  Try some "natural spring water" and not distilled.
- If you are having starting problems throw some cabbage in.  If you cut out the core of a cabbage and dice it, it is rich with starting bacteria.  Or get some vegetable starter.  I like caldwell's.  Personally I never tried lacto but I have a taste aversion to some things I know are lacto fermented
- Also, I think your mashes may be more interesting if you added some garlic and or onions. 
 
 
 

The one in the pic that I did with the brine turned out great! I pretty much did what you described. Except I used distilled water and sea salt, but the ferment was still a success. 
 
My mash is what sucked and getting growth. It's was just blended peppers and salt, nothing else. I have since read about starters and adding some stuff like cabbage or bell pepper for the good lacto to eat. I have since moved to using canning salt on the new brine I've started and the other pepper mash I've started. 
 
First I've heard using Natural Spring water over Distilled. I'll will do that with my next brine. 
 
Thanks for all y'alls help. It's been great!