pests Another leaf problem (aphids?)

[BillyIdle]

Everything was going just too well, and now the leafs on several of my plants are starting to show signs of trouble. New growth is wrinkly and curly and some of them are deformed, some worse than others. I cut off the most severe example, just to make photographing it easier:

Some of the older growth also show symptoms of bad happenings. The example below shows some yellowing spots as you can see, and these turns to holes:

From what I can find on the net, this can be caused by the spawn of satan, or aphids as they are also known as. I have looked very closely on the leaves, but I can only find a few critters, and I don't think they fit the descripion of aphids. I can only locate one or two of these bastards on a few of the leaves. I tried to shoot some macro photos of them, but it was not easy to get the focus right. Anyway, you'll get a feeling of what they look like.

 

[AlabamaJack]

the first one looks like an aphid on the stem

and the second one resembles a thrip...(***spit*** as Pam says)

heres a link to some thrip pictures...body shape resembles the one in the photo...notice the way the wings lay against the back (picture on far right)....

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...L&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=3&ct=image&cd=1

 

[BillyIdle]

Seems like you're spot on there AJ. From what I find on the net, thrips cause these exact types of problems. There is one species called Chilli Thrips (Scirtothrips dorsalis) that thrives on our beloved plants, but also on many others as well (more info). These critters doesn't thrive very well in my climate, so I guess I got them from my store bought basils. I've also got a ficus downstairs that recently has shown similar growth, and these can be affected as well. So what to do next? Right now I just want to kill every plant in the house showing symptoms

 

[AlabamaJack]

I haven't had a problem with thrips ***spit*** that I know of so I can be of little assistance...

Pam (I think) had a big problem with them last year....maybe she will come by this thread and give some help...

I did a little Googlin' and found this site...since you are growing "organic", this may be helpful to you..

http://www.colostate.edu/Dept/CoopExt/4DMG/VegFruit/organic.htm

 

[BillyIdle]

As I see it, I have two ways out. Well three, but I don't want to kill every single plant in the house, so let's stick with two.

1. Terminate all the chili plants and other edibles (a few herbs), and spray everything else with some hard core sh*t. Since I'm not gonna eat them, no worries. But I should probably avoid composting any of these plants in my garden compost in the coming months.

2. Find some cure that is organic and safe, and spray everything.

The good news here is that I might not have to spray every plant in the house, since the critters only live on a few species. Of the non-edibles only one of my ficus plants is infected.

Looked through the pesticides in your link AJ, and the only correlating entries to the list at the link I posted seems to be the Pyrenthrin (Pyrethroid is the same, only synthetic and non-organic). And this alone is not verified to work. Another problem is to get my hands on this stuff here in rural parts of Norway.

 

[bigt]

How about Neem Oil? It wiped out my aphid problem and has been keeping my overwintered plants nice and happy. A little goes a long way in a spray bottle. I think I only used a teaspoon in a 32oz (1 quart) bottle.


Neem Oil link: http://www.livingwithbugs.com/neem_oil.html

 

[caroltlw]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but are these whiteflies or aphids? I thought they were whiteflies (last year) but now I find out aphids look a lot like that too.

 

[AlabamaJack]

EEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!

APHIDS!!!!!!!!!!!! (or sure looks like them to me)

PREPARE FOR WAR!!!!!!!!!

Safer Soap, Safer Soap, Safer Soap!!!!!!!

 

[BillyIdle]

How about Neem Oil? It wiped out my aphid problem and has been keeping my overwintered plants nice and happy. A little goes a long way in a spray bottle. I think I only used a teaspoon in a 32oz (1 quart) bottle.


Neem Oil link: http://www.livingwithbugs.com/neem_oil.html

Hm, it's said to be effective against thrips as well. This should really be worth a try. Only problem is getting my hands on this stuff over here.

 

[AlabamaJack]

BI...if you have any nurserys fairly close to you, they should have some...but with you living above the arctic circle, they may not have any nurserys...

 

[caroltlw]

So... let me get this straight
aphids = bad, use safer soap etc ??
thrips = worse, use more drastic measures, like neem oil ??

FYI, I got rid of last year's problem by killing off the most infested plant and dusting the rest of that group with Sevin and a fan to get under the leaves.

 

[BillyIdle]

Yes we have nurseries, but I doubt they have anything like neem oil. The range of pests we have to battle here up north isn't very big. Everything related to gardening seems to be very limited around here, including knowledge. My guess is that nobody has even heard of neem oil before.

 

[AlabamaJack]

So... let me get this straight
aphids = bad, use safer soap etc ??
thrips = worse, use more drastic measures, like neem oil ??

FYI, I got rid of last year's problem by killing off the most infested plant and dusting the rest of that group with Sevin and a fan to get under the leaves.

to me aphid infestation is one of the biggest problems a gardener has...I have not experienced thrips as I said. Last year I tried several different methods including Neem, but I was impressed with safer soap for aphids...to me it worked better than neem....I didn't use any "drastic" measures last year...

Yes we have nurseries, but I doubt they have anything like neem oil. The range of pests we have to battle here up north isn't very big. Everything related to gardening seems to be very limited around here, including knowledge. My guess is that nobody has even heard of neem oil before.

geez...that's a problem

 

[caroltlw]

A neighbor-friend of mine says Dawn dishsoap (original, not fancy) and water will get rid of bugs safely. i plan on trying that first this year. I'm looking for real info about that now.

http://chattanoogarose.org/Soaps and Detergents.htm

 

[AlabamaJack]

I have heard that too Carol...just never tried it since the nursery I go to has it in stock constantly...

 

[bigt]

Yes we have nurseries, but I doubt they have anything like neem oil. The range of pests we have to battle here up north isn't very big. Everything related to gardening seems to be very limited around here, including knowledge. My guess is that nobody has even heard of neem oil before.

I never heard of Neem oil before this forum.

A neighbor-friend of mine says Dawn dishsoap (original, not fancy) and water will get rid of bugs safely. i plan on trying that first this year. I'm looking for real info about that now.

http://chattanoogarose.org/Soaps and Detergents.htm

Interesting - it was recommended I mix a little dish soap with the Neem oil when I added it to the water. The combination worked, that all I know. Aphids gone, plant definitely still alive.

 

[Pam]

So... let me get this straight
aphids = bad, use safer soap etc ??
thrips = worse, use more drastic measures, like neem oil ??

Thrips are harder to reach than aphids. A soap mixture will kill them, but only if it reaches them. Soap kills insects by stripping away their cuticle and disrupting some of their (hand wave) biological processes, so once it dries it is no longer effective. Neem is oil based, and leaves a residue on the leaves until the next time the leaf gets wet, so it ends up getting more.

Having fought the battle, neither is especially effective against thrips once you get an infestation. You almost have to spray every day. There weren't any good natural controls, either. There were some promising mites and the like, but they weren't completely proven, and were very, very expensive. I did have a little luck with spinosad sprays that were new on the market at that time.

FYI, I got rid of last year's problem by killing off the most infested plant and dusting the rest of that group with Sevin and a fan to get under the leaves.

The picture up there is of aphids. Whiteflies fly up in a cloud of teeny tiny white specks when you brush up against the plant.

 

[patrick]

I've got an aphid problem right now, nothing compared to the picture Caroltlw posted though. I'm with AJ and use the Safer brand Yard and Garden Insect Killer. Only problem I've found is that it doesn't kill the eggs. You have to go back and spray again a few days later. It uses a combination of insecticidal soap and pyrethrins which kills on contact.

Good luck to both of you.

 

[BillyIdle]

Thrips are harder to reach than aphids. A soap mixture will kill them, but only if it reaches them. Soap kills insects by stripping away their cuticle and disrupting some of their (hand wave) biological processes, so once it dries it is no longer effective. Neem is oil based, and leaves a residue on the leaves until the next time the leaf gets wet, so it ends up getting more.

Having fought the battle, neither is especially effective against thrips once you get an infestation. You almost have to spray every day. There weren't any good natural controls, either. There were some promising mites and the like, but they weren't completely proven, and were very, very expensive. I did have a little luck with spinosad sprays that were new on the market at that time.

So basically what you're saying is that I can just give up?

Except for the three Super Chiles, every plant is very small ones, with 0 to 10 pair of proper leaves. I am considering cutting back the Super's to save myself work. Sounds like a plan? If the cutting back doesn't work I can just start new seeds.

 

[Pam]

So basically what you're saying is that I can just give up?

Ah, sorry, I was thinking of Carol, she's already moving her plants outside. Inside you have a better chance of controlling thrips because you can prevent reinfestation from nearby plant hosts. Are you sure what you have is thrips and not aphids?

Except for the three Super Chiles, every plant is very small ones, with 0 to 10 pair of proper leaves. I am considering cutting back the Super's to save myself work. Sounds like a plan? If the cutting back doesn't work I can just start new seeds.

Cutting back would probably help. Treat the soil surface with a soap spray when you do, because some aphids fall down there and can reinfest from there.