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soil Any of you recycle your soil?

OZZZ

OZZZ

Ive been having problems lately with my peppers and I think I realized what my problem is.

Ive been recycling my soil for over a year now from my indoor garden. When its harvest time, I dump all the containers into a large rubbermaid, mix with fresh worm castings and water down with an ACT and let it set. Then, about a month before the new grow, I re-ammend with fresh promix, tomato tone and sometimes lime.

My indoor garden has been doing just fine on it but these peppers have been stalling big time. Just acting funky and not doing well in general. I have used this same soil for about 4 grows now though so it has gone through the paces and Im wondering if thats what the problem is.... in fact... Im pretty damn sure thats it.

Not only that... but this time around Im noticing even the indoor plants seem to be slightly off... even though they are still performing well they seem to not be doing so well.

My mix is promix with perilite and worm castings. A little volacanic sand (just a cup per 5 gallons) and some tomato tone plus lime.

Ive heard that over time the peat in promix can break down to much, become heavy... and become very acidic. Im wondering if this is in fact what my problem is. The soil sure looks heavy.

So a few questions for you guys that grow in containers:

1) If you recycle your soil, how many "runs" do you use it for?
2) How do you re-ammend?

and last but not least (since Im pretty damn sure I need to get fresh soil before I bomb out all these peppers for this year)

3) What should I do with 120 gallons of old, used promix!!? lol ... I have a good 60 gallons that I re-ammended with rabbit poo and worm castings as well as fresh perilite so I sure hate to not be able to use it for something.

Maybe Ill use it for raised beds or go throw it on the area I prepped for my future garden. I have a 12'x12' spot picked out that I brought in 1 yard of topsoil and 1 yard of horse manure. I dug out the ground to 12" deep and filled with the top soil and horse manure... then I tilled it all in. That was last year and I didnt plant a garden I just let it set and the weeds grew in over it. I guess I could go dump all this soil in that area as well and again let the weeds grow over it. Then till all the weeds in come fall and maybe look to plant a outdoor garden there next year?

Any suggestions?

My pepper plants seem to be getting lock out and overwatering despite my best efforts to not water heavily. I really cant pin point whats going on I seriously suspect its gotta be the soil.

What do you guys think?
 
I wish i could give solid advice on how to keep it going in the pots, but tilling it into your outdoor garden soil would be a great last ditch resort imho.

As long as it doesn't make up a high percentage of your outdoor mixture, then it ought to be fine. I'm sure you would further amend it would other types of compost etc, and maybe a layer of inexpensive pine bark fines (mulch, great cheap filler) + leaves in the fall to make it even better for next year. If you go with the pine park idea then i would start it this year so it's perfectly composted for next year.

Good luck either way though.
 
Thanks for the input ... I had about 15 gallons of the recycled soil/rabbit poo/worm casting/perilite mix sitting in a 30 gallon bin that wasn't full so I filled the rest of it up with fresh peat and added more perilite and mixed it up well.

So that would be about a 50/50 mix of old and new. Tomorrow I'm going to grab some lime and ill mix some in as well.

Ill give this a shot and see if plants do any better in it.

If you think about it...if the recycled soil is just getting to broken down...then its becoming compost basically. Its been used in 4 grows now... the root balls are left in it while it sets and when I go to re-ammend they are completely gone. Also... each grow theres tomato tone added and previously blood, bone and kelp meals were used with additives such as greensand and volcanic sand.

So essentially the old soil is becoming compost.

Would you guys agree on this?

Then on each subsequent grow new worm castings are added as well.

Maybe I need to consider this old soil part of the compost ratio rather then the soil ratio.

Typically I've been shooting for a 1/3 soil, 1/3 perilite and 1/3 compost (or castings ) mix. Problem is the old recycled soil I used for the 1/3 soil part of the mix...when really its getting to broken down and heavy...much less then to add more compost.

In this case ...the old soil which consists of all of that listed above...plus new castings and rabbit poo...was mixed 50% with fresh peat and perilite to soften it back up and give it an airy structure again.

Time will tell I guess I've got some seedlings that aren't ready to be transplanted but I'm going to delicately get them out of that old mix ASAP and into this 50/50 mix and see how they respond.

I'm all ears if anyone has any thoughts on this.
 
you kept mentioning adding lime. You realy don't need it. I never tried using it and did always just fine. Adding too much of it could be the problem. And animal droppings that didn't decompose enough.
 
I agree with mememe about the lime. Pepper plants prefer soil on the slightly acidic side and you're raising the pH above neutral with the lime.

You need to check your pH.
 
I recycled my soil from last year because I had no disease problems. I also grew Swiss chard and beets in the containers during winter without amending. For this year's peppers, though, I have mixed half old soil (which was a heavy-ish mix of clay, bark fines, and composted manure) with half a mix of composted manure, bark fines, and a bit of sand. During the mixing, I had a lot of worms in and under the containers, which I took to be a good sign despite how heavy the soil was. The soil is much looser and I'm expecting good things.

I do not add lime or fert to the soil, as I've never needed lime and fert just washes out in spring before the peppers put out enough roots to feed on it. I top dress with fert or use solubles. I'd say I produced more peppers than I knew what to do with—my fataliis went gangbusters—but most of them were consumed or pickled and consumed. I've got two jars of salt pickled chilies and a sandwich baggy of dried chilies left to last me until I get fresh pods this year.

I'd say I don't reuse soil with tomatoes, but I grow them in ground in the same rows unless there's disease issues. I pile on two inches of fresh compost each year, though, which seems to suppress the bad stuff. I also grow broad beans during fall/winter on these rows as a delicious cover crop.

As others say, you might have your new soil mix tested by your local county extension office. They can tell you what to change based on the results. It's the best way to put soil questions to rest, and for under $10.
 
+1 on the lime issue. Every time you add lime it raises the pH and I don't think there is much of anything counteracting that in a pot. Just for grins you might try dosing some of the old soil with Iron Sulphate (or some other acidifier) and see what that does for the plant.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I really appreciate everyone of your thoughts. Ive heard this from several others as well regarding the lime.

Correct me if Im wrong but peat moss is acidic right out of the gate. Thats why promix uses liming agents in their promix to stabalize PH. Also, Ive read from many sources that as peat moss breaks down it becomes even more acidic and can become extremely acidic over time.

Anyone know anything about this? Thats why I was adding lime on the re-ammendments. Keep in mind we are talking about using the material over and over again, not just once and throwing it out. This material has been through 4 - 3 month grows now and I re-ammended (no lime) and these peppers are hurting in the mix.

For the record though, the first two grows with this soil I added lime, these last two I have not because I was told that it isnt needed. So you guys certainly arent the only ones theres many others out their saying its not needed. However, the peppers are not doing well at all in this soil, and I havent added lime for two ammendments (6 months). So Im not sure?

I read that PH lowers over time as materials break down, it doesnt increase. I guess thats the thought process behind the lime. With that being said... Ive heard from a ton of people its not needed. So I havent used it on the last two grows.... and the pepper plants arent doing good.

I suppose it could be more of an overwatering issue, but I think its because of the soil. Ive never had this much trouble deciding when and when not to water. I did put a few 14" plants that were in 1 gallon buckets into 5 gallon buckets though so maybe Im just having a hard time adjusting to the larger pot size with the smaller plant while they fill out the pots. Im used to going from 1 gallon to 3 gallon pots and it doesnt seem to take them much time at all to fill the root space.

I think tonight Im going to put several of the pepper plants into new containers with the new mix and see how they do. Im not going to water upon transplant either, Ill dip the root ball into water and place it into the dry medium and then watch the plants closely until they seem like they need water.

I suppose the best way to trouble shoot this would be to buy new mix and put two out of the six plants in it, then put two out of the six plants into my 50/50 old soil/new soil mix, and then leave two in the old mix completely and see how it goes.

I hope I dont sound combative here ... its not that theres just so many variables to consider. There is strong evidence though that peat gets very acidic as it breaks down... so on that note I would think lime would be necessary. As mentioned though.. theres a ton of people saying its not though so I have no clue. lol ...

Any thoughts??
 
everything is ok in moderation, it's all about how much you add vs. how quickly things break down or wash out. test your soil pH, over time; it's the only way to know how much is too much.

we add lots of gumballs which are acidic, and toss in some lime too. the gumballs take a long time to decompose so we have to keep adding lime over time so the soil stays about the same pH.
soil is an ever changing, multivariable, solid solution.
 
The PH of fresh Pro Mix is where it needs to be, so liming it will throw it off. I wouldn't expect to get more than 2 uses out of the Pro Mix if that, because any peat based mix will break down and compact over time, killing your drainage and root aeration. Always check PH before blindly adding lime to your mix.

As to whether I have reused Pro Mix; nope, it got dumped on the compost pile.

When making my own mix I use peat as the base and that mix gets lime added because peat that hasn't been amended is acidic.

15 gallons pine bark fines (sifted through 1/2" hardware cloth)
5 gallons peat
5 gallons perlite
2.5 gallons composted chicken manure or Black cow composted manure or vermi compost or combination of the 3
2.5 gallons humus
2 cups dolomite

Even though this mix will last longer before compacting it only sees one season of use before being dumped on the compost pile.

This season I used Pro Mix BX from seed tray to #1 pot and it's only amendment was a little worm compost after the move from the seed flats. It's called Pro Mix for a reason. ;)
 
Thats great I appreciate all the input ...I'm gonna check ph tonight and do some repotting.

I guess I really need to get an outdoor compost pile going...although by doing that its still being reused as compost.

I knew that it breaks down but I thought by reammending with perilite and fresh castings I was reintroducing areation, structure and organic humus. I guess not enough because looking at it in the pots its definately not of a fluffy texture like it was originally.

When composting old soil do you consider it a Brown or a green?
 
Awesome ...thanks everyone again I think this gives me what I need to get this ironed out.

What are you using for your humus source? Leaf mold/litter?
 
It really is best practice to compost used soil to kill anything that might have cropped up. That will kill any nasties that might be resident in the soil/mix, whether fungus, bacteria, etc. That said I just dump it in my garden, I don't have the faith in it to try using it to start seeds again or to pot up existing plants.
 
Thanks everyone. I checked on my 50/50 mix in the bin last night and it is nice and fluffy, Im waiting on my PH strips to check PH but the texture is now much better... it feels and looks like new bagged potting soil.

However, I stuck my hands deep inside the bin to stir it up a little again and noticed its very warm in the middle of the bin (its a 30 gallon rubbermaid) so the soil mix is actually composting. Its probably from the rabbit manure and fresh peat Im guessing. Ill let it set for a month or so until it slows down and cools off before using. It looks like a very nice mix. Also by then Ill be able to test the PH.

Either way, my issues are definately due to my soil being used to much. Im going to repot them in better soil soon.
 
Ya... mixing it 50/50 with new peat and some extra perilite did wonders. It feels like fresh bagged potting soil now, light and fluffy. Whereas before it was much heavier and compacted easily. All I was doing before was adding more perilite and worm castings. Over the four grows that made an increasingly heavier and heavier mix. I cant believe I didnt notice until now.

As I mentioned it is heating up due to the rabbit poo, but there cant be more then 10% poo in there at this point since Ive mixed it several times. Ive read rabbit poo is the only manure that can be used fresh... Ive even heard of people planting into straight rabbit pellets and having great plants. Since its heating up though Im going to let it set until it "finishes" itself and cools down. Should be a good mix at that point.

Ill double check the PH though just to be certain. Cant wait to get these plants into a good mix. They are a good 15" tall or so with thick sturdy stems and should take off with better soil... I hope :)
 
I want to bump this in case anyone does a search and comes across it.
 
I re-calibrated my PH pen and did several tests.
 
First distilled white vinegar is known to be a PH of 2.4. My tap water is known to be around 7.3-7.5 (Im on a public well system for a small subdivision, very soft water around 150 PPM's with no chlorine or chloramines, nor flouride).
 
So I soaked my PH pen for 24 hours before use because it had dried out (Yes, you arent suppose to let that happen). Then I checked the vinegar, it came up at 2.9 so I calibrated it down to 2.4. Rinsed it off, then checked my tap... it nailed it at 7.3.
 
So then I broke out my RO filter. Reverse osmosis cant be checked straight with a PH pen because theres no solids for the electrode to conduct through so it wont read properly .. by itelf. However, it has virtually zero buffering capacity so it will quickly take on the PH of any medium mixed with it.
 
So I took a small amount of straight peat moss (premeir brand) and put it in a glass, I mixed in some RO water until it was a runny mud/water mixture.
 
Then I took some of my OLD, USED soil ... with no fresh ammendments, and did the same. Put some in a glass with an appropriate amount of RO water.
 
Lastly I did it again with the new mixture I made for these pepper plants because Im having problems. In fact.. I went out and took a handfull straight out of one of the plants containers. Again, mixed with RO water.
 
I let all these set for about 20 minutes or so.
 
Conclusions:
 
The straight peat moss came out right at 4.5
 
The OLD soil came out at 6.9
 
The new soil (which was old soil mixed with fresh peat moss, perilite, ewc, and rabbit poo) came out at 6.0-6.2
 
...between each reading the probe was rinsed off completely under running tap water. Checked the PH of the vinegar to ensure accuracy, then rinsed off again and checked the PH of a glass of the tap. Each time the vinegar came to 2.4 and the tap between 7.3-7.5.
 
After all the soil tests were done I checked the vinegar and tap water once again. Still got the same readings.
 
 
So .. long story short my old soil was around 7.0 which is high for peppers. Not only that but I was SEVERELY overwatering. Keep in mind I water with straight tap water because theres no additives and it has low TDS (total dissolved solids). Its pretty good water. However ... since I was overwatering and the soil was pretty saturated .. that would of course raise the soil PH even further. Im guessing my actual soil PH was around 7.0-7.2.
 
 
A few questions for you guys:
 
1) Is 7.0-7.2 enough to cause lockout? (Im guessing it is since peppers like slightly acidic soil)
 
2) I took out the rootballs of these plants out of their old pots and put them in the fresh mix (which I now know has a PH of 6.0-6.2). However, I left the rootball intact which has a good cantoloupe sized chunk of the old soil which was still saturated. I put each plant in a five gallon bucket with dry, fresh mix. The dry new mix will wick water away from the rootball and I am noticing all the plants are starting new leaves at their nodes. Im hoping the plants will grow new roots into the new mix and thereby correct their PH situation and take off once that happens. Is that accurate or are they screwed now that they have had lockout and I left some of the old soil intact?? Keep in mind although they are now in 5 gallon buckets with new mix of correct PH, their whole rootball is still in a chunk of the old soil that has bad PH (surrounded by the new, correct soil). Will they grow into the new soil and recover?
 
I appreciate the input everyone, you guys are great!
 
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