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pests Aphids AND Mites: Best mode of attack?

What is "moderation"? If I use pyrethrins one week, and sulphur the next, alternating back and forth, is this too much? I don't think I can eradicate them, but, hopefully I can keep them under reasonable control with some sort of ongoing treatment.
 
Sorry, I should have explained more thoroughly, when treating for aphids, it is necessary to treat all areas of the plant. Stems, leaves(both sides) and even the soil surface is advisable. In doing so with any kind of spraying devise you are going to emit a large volume of pyrethrin. And with young plants and or new growth it will inevitably have a adverse effect on them. when treating anything one should cast caution to the wind, It is possible that the reaction I have described was due to pyrethrin being used indoors where an after treatment wash down was not possible and in combination with the HID light the next day exacerbated the situation. without conducting a rediculous recreation of the scenario we may never know. so, when treating anything with anything, cast caution to the wind and use moderation.
 
I should add, althought the treatment did stunt the plants and new growth, it was only temporary and the plants did make a come back. this may or may not become an issue, that will depend on the remaining length of growing season that remains where you are.
 
Thanks, but I must admit I don't quite understand how to "cast caution to the wind and use moderation". A bit of a contradiction, it seems to me.

Well, since I've received so much advice, often times disagreeing, I feel I should update on what I've decided for now. Wednesday, midnight, I sprayed 1 gallon of permethrin on my plants. It was not fun wearing a spotlight strapped to my head, trying to see what I was doing. This evening at 7:30, I sprayed 1 gallon of GardenSafe 3--in-1 miticide/fungicide/insecticide. It is essentially 70% Neem oil. I'm thinking I will spray the permethrin again next Tuesday, the GardenSafe on the following Saturday. After that, I will only spray once a week, if necessary, alternating between the two.
 
Roguejim said:
Thanks, but I must admit I don't quite understand how to "cast caution to the wind and use moderation". A bit of a contradiction, it seems to me.

Well, since I've received so much advice, often times disagreeing, I feel I should update on what I've decided for now. Wednesday, midnight, I sprayed 1 gallon of permethrin on my plants. It was not fun wearing a spotlight strapped to my head, trying to see what I was doing. This evening at 7:30, I sprayed 1 gallon of GardenSafe 3--in-1 miticide/fungicide/insecticide. It is essentially 70% Neem oil. I'm thinking I will spray the permethrin again next Tuesday, the GardenSafe on the following Saturday. After that, I will only spray once a week, if necessary, alternating between the two.
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you are correct. should have been don't cast caution to the wind. typos happen on days like this.
 
So, do you think I am wasting my time with the current regimen? There is so much disagreement here, and on the canna sites, that it's kind of a crap shoot. One thing works for one person, but, doesn't work for the next...

One consistency that I've seen though, is that neem and pyrethrin are not "one time" fixes. I already knew that about pyrethrin. This is my first fling with neem.
 
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give it a shot, can't hurt. but fyi, everything I tried also listed aphids on their target list.pyrethrin is the only thing besides ladybug larvae that worked. But because of its effects on the plants I was unable to keep dosing. Outside plants are a no contest in what to use. Hit theme with pyrethrin, allow it to work for a couple hours and give them a shower (if treating on a sunny day).
 
Lady bugs! I haven't ever used them this late in the year though. I've had seedlings infested with aphids and the ladybugs saved me. Like HP said the larvae are voracious predators. Neem worked for me on my over wintered ones. For awhile. 
 
HP22BH said:
No, It is as good ma try as any I could recomend.
 
This may help you understand aphids and their control or lack of a little better.
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/44251-hp22bhs-glog-201314/
 
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/44910-aphid-solution/
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Thanks. I can handle aphids. It's the mites that have me concerned. I'm not even sure they are "broad" mites, but, someone here said the plant damage in the photos is consistent with broad mites. Without using a magnifying device(I have one on order), how do you tell the difference between broad mite damage, and spider mite damage, for example?
Verivus said:
Well, I just bought this off Amazon to see if it works on mealy bugs on my spearmint plant.
 
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00192AO90/ref=s9_psimh_gw_p86_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1QGG94GJ4HNZ6X4X9DT8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846
 
No idea if it's going to work, but the reviews seem good enough. Plus it's organic. It lists aphids and mites on it's target list as well.
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Interesting, but what the heck are "potassium salts of fatty acids"? I have a bottle of Safer Garden Fungicide which contains sulphur, another option for aphids and mites. I don't think they sell it anymore, though. It's not on their website.
 
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what works good for me is tobacco juice....take a plug of chewing tobacco, soak it in a gallon of water in the sun for about 3 days....it will be so dark you can't see through the liguid...put it in a spray bottle and "hose her down"....
 
WichitaChief said:
Lady bugs! I haven't ever used them this late in the year though. I've had seedlings infested with aphids and the ladybugs saved me. Like HP said the larvae are voracious predators. Neem worked for me on my over wintered ones. For awhile.
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Ladybugs & their larvae was the only thing that worked for me.
 
Roguejim said:
So, do you think I am wasting my time with the current regimen? There is so much disagreement here, and on the canna sites, that it's kind of a crap shoot. One thing works for one person, but, doesn't work for the next...

One consistency that I've seen though, is that neem and pyrethrin are not "one time" fixes. I already knew that about pyrethrin. This is my first fling with neem.
Click to expand...
 
what do you mean by wasting your time? yes you are not likely to wipe out the infestation, but you are likely to control their population. 
 
if you want them gone... for good, you will need a legit acharicde like spino, or abamectin.
spino is for ornimentals however, i would not reccomend it on your peppers. abamectin is cool on edible crops, just need to wait like 15 days or w.e the manufacturer says i cannot recall.
 
if you catch the infestation early enough, i think its entirely possible that you could wipe them out with what you have.
 
btw permethrin is not organic, idk if you knew that. hopefully you did not confuse it with pyrethrin. i use it for catterpillars... works wonderfully.
 
with respect to the permethrin, one big thing you can do, is add a surfactant to your sprays... this will spread out the spray into films that will stick to the leaves longer. it may not sound like a huge deal, but trust me it helps tons.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-Non-Ionic-Surfactant-Herbicides/dp/B004XDHRCE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1405897560&sr=8-4&keywords=spreader+sticker
 
this is what im talking about. just make sure its compatable with the pesticides you have.
Roguejim said:
Interesting, but what the heck are "potassium salts of fatty acids"? I have a bottle of Safer Garden Fungicide which contains sulphur, another option for aphids and mites. I don't think they sell it anymore, though. It's not on their website.
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thats just a fancy word for soap.
 
in order to make soap you need fatty acids, IE steric acid( cow lard etc.) + a strong base like potassium hydroxide.
 
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queequeg152 said:
what do you mean by wasting your time? yes you are not likely to wipe out the infestation, but you are likely to control their population. 
 
if you want them gone... for good, you will need a legit acharicde like spino, or abamectin.
spino is for ornimentals however, i would not reccomend it on your peppers. abamectin is cool on edible crops, just need to wait like 15 days or w.e the manufacturer says i cannot recall.
 
if you catch the infestation early enough, i think its entirely possible that you could wipe them out with what you have.
 
btw permethrin is not organic, idk if you knew that. hopefully you did not confuse it with pyrethrin. i use it for catterpillars... works wonderfully.
 
with respect to the permethrin, one big thing you can do, is add a surfactant to your sprays... this will spread out the spray into films that will stick to the leaves longer. it may not sound like a huge deal, but trust me it helps tons.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Southern-Ag-Non-Ionic-Surfactant-Herbicides/dp/B004XDHRCE/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1405897560&sr=8-4&keywords=spreader+sticker
 
this is what im talking about. just make sure its compatable with the pesticides you have.
 
thats just a fancy word for soap.
 
in order to make soap you need fatty acids, IE steric acid( cow lard etc.) + a strong base like potassium hydroxide.
Click to expand...
I have a bottle of Coco Wet that I can add. Yeah, I'm aware that permethrin is (I think) synthetic pyrethrins. I used it because Bonide Pyrethrins does not list mites, but Bonide Eight Concentrate(permethrin) does.
 
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My vote is ladybugs AND green lacewings. Aphids and mites will be decimated. 
 
 
Of course, only if you haven't used some form of insecticide yet, as it will also kill the beneficials.
 
geeme said:
My vote is ladybugs AND green lacewings. Aphids and mites will be decimated. 
 
 
Of course, only if you haven't used some form of insecticide yet, as it will also kill the beneficials.
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Ya know, I'm going to seriously look into lady bugs for next season. Will they eradicate all mites, or, is there some other bug I should purchase?
 
Roguejim said:
I have a bottle of Coco Wet that I can add. Yeah, I'm aware that permethrin is (I think) synthetic pyrethrins. I used it because Bonide Pyrethrins does not list mites, but Bonide Eight Concentrate(permethrin) does.
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cool, idk what coco wet is, but hopefully that works for you.
 
regarding permethrin, please read the manufacturers warnings, its not nearly as non toxic as pyrethrin, i believe its toxic to dogs or cats( i cannot recall), so its important not to over spray.
permethrin is actually used in dog or cat flea collars if i recall correctly. one is fine with perm, the other is not... again cannot recall. its also used in skin creams for mites, bed bugs, lice, etc. 
 
Well, my plants are infested with aphids. I just sprayed 3 gallons of pyrethrins/water/mix, and am positive I missed many of the bugs. I'm using the "square foot gardening" method where each plant has only 1s/f of space. So, all plants are touching and growing into each other. The only "con" is if you have an insect infestation, and need to spray. It's all but impossible to cover every leaf and branch.

Does anyone know how soon I can repeat spraying the pyrethrins for a heavy infestation??

Do pyrethrins kill lady bugs? I was thinking I could keep spraying the pyrethrins until the lady bugs arrive.
 
Pyrethrins will kill most insects especially if the pyrethrin is combined with piperonyl butoxide (PBO ) (as many are) to increase the insects susceptibility the poison . However because naturally sourced pyrethrin breaks down rapidly (within hours) when exposed to UV light if you stopped spraying 72hours + before you released the lady bugs you should be fine... I would try to give them 5 days myself.
Also note the breakdown time of pyrethrin ... so for best results spray at dusk
 
Trippa said:
Pyrethrins will kill most insects especially if the pyrethrin is combined with piperonyl butoxide (PBO ) (as many are) to increase the insects susceptibility the poison . However because naturally sourced pyrethrin breaks down rapidly (within hours) when exposed to UV light if you stopped spraying 72hours + before you released the lady bugs you should be fine... I would try to give them 5 days myself.
Also note the breakdown time of pyrethrin ... so for best results spray at dusk
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So what you're saying is that pyrethrins kill lady bugs? 
 
How long will pyrethrins remain effective before I can reapply?  They were sprayed at dusk.  I'm talking a heavy aphid infestation.
 
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