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pod Bih, Naga, King, Morich, Dorset, Ghost, 7 Pot, 7 Pod...

PepperDaddler

PepperDaddler

I have noticed there are a lot of names for peppers that to me look the same or are the same pepper called by different names by different people. Or grow lists that have a couple of things listed at the same time like Bhut Jolokia and Naga Jolokia which are the same thing according to Wikipedia. ( Yeah, I know, definitely not the greatest source to be getting my information...)
 
Here's something I pulled up for the sake of making what I say easy to understand:
 
The pepper is called by different names in different regions. North of the Brahmaputra, it is widely called Bhut Jolokia or Bhoot Jolokia, literally translating to 'Ghost Chilli' in Assamese and Bengali ("Bhoot" means ghost in most other Indo-Aryan languages as well). Some believe that "Bhut" might imply "from Bhutan" but that is incorrect as the translation of "from Bhutan" in Assamese is "Bhuitiya" not "Bhut". Furthermore, this pepper has never occurred naturally in the temperate climate of Bhutan. On the southern bank of the river Brahmaputra, this chili becomes Naga jolokia, believed to be named after the ferocious Naga warriors inhabiting the plains & hills of Nagaland. Further complicating matters, a 2009 paper, published in the Asian Agri-History journal, coined the English term "Naga king chili" which refers to the chili's large pod size. It also stated that the most common Indian (Assamese) usage is bhoot jolokia and gives the alternate common name as Bih Jolokia (bih means "poison" in Assamese, denoting the plant's heat). The Assamese word "jolokia" simply means the Capsicum pepper. Other usages on the subcontinent are Saga Jolokia, Indian mystery chili, and Indian rough chili (after the chili's rough skin). It has also been called the Tezpur chili after the Assamese city of Tezpur. In Manipur, the chili is called umorok or oo-morok (oo = "tree", morok = "chili").
 
I have also heard of Dorset Naga.
 
As a newcomer this can be confusing, especially when I see the practice done by experienced chiliheads and growers. Like when they say they're already growing bhuts, but are looking for bih.
 
I know that ghost chili is just a generic term for Bhuts, as far as I have heard. Usually used by people not really into peppers. When I tell people at work I grow super hots, I always hear excitedly:
 
                      
 
292658_371072252941562_2037763332_a.jpg
          "So, do you grow Ghost Peppers?!"
 
 
Another one that gets me is the 7 pot....or 7 pod? Or maybe they are two different types...?
 
I don't know.
 
There seem to be too many of them to keep up with. Now I understand a YELLOW 7 or RED 7, because those are obviously different colors. But how do you know the difference between one or the other if color is not the issue?
 
 
 
...And it is 7 pot right?...like 7 pots of chilli?  :neutral:  
 
 
 
I know with all the cross breeding there are a lot of new ones coming out all the time, but as for some of the most basic of these just how many types are there of 7s and Bhuts and Nagas and whatnot?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Now I have seen Madballz 7, with its burgundy color.
 
I will give the that one because it definitely deserves to have a distinct name.
 
But what makes a 7 pot primo different than a normal 7 pot other than someone named primo grew it?
 
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As you pointed out there are many chilis out there that go by different names.  However, the Bhut Jolokia, Bih Jolokia, and Naga Morich are different peppers.  They are related somewhat, but have their own characteristics that make them individuals.  The Dorset Naga is just a Naga Morich that was selectively bred, meaning the best pods where used year after year to get what they called a different breed (which I don't actually believe).  7 Pot and 7 Pod refer to the same class of pepper.  Now as ZenPepper pointed out, there are a ton of different names for 7 Pots.  However, I don't agree that they are all the same.  You can't possibly look at a 7 Pot Primo and tell me it is the same pepper as a 7 Pot Jonah.

PepperDaddler said:
Now I have seen Madballz 7, with its burgundy color.
 
I will give the that one because it definitely deserves to have a distinct name.
 
But what makes a 7 pot primo different than a normal 7 pot other than someone named primo grew it?
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Have you seen a 7 Pot primo?  It typically has a really long stinger at the end.  In contrast, all other 7 Pots lack that and generally don't have a stinger at all.  The Primo was named after the grower.  He's a member here as well.
 
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Have you seen a 7 Pot primo?  It typically has a really long stinger at the end.  In contrast, all other 7 Pots lack that and generally don't have a stinger at all.  The Primo was named after the grower.  He's a member here as well.
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I have seen one. yes. And I know of Primo.
 
I think what I mean to ask is why cause all the confusion in the first place, why not just call it something completely different if it is something completely different? Is there an original 7 pot that is just that-  A 7 pot and nothing else?
 
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It carries the 7 Pot genetics, that's why 7 Pot is still in the name.  The 7 Pot varieties originated from the original 7 Pot, with most carrying a genetic mutation.  I'm sure some have been crossed with other peppers too.  Check out pepperlover.com.  Judy specializes in the Trinidad peppers.  You'll see all sorts of different 7 Pots there.
 
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Now I am starting to understand and that makes sense. I just have noticed there seem to be a lot of those varieties and it seems never ending to the point of confusion at times. I will check it out.
 
 
compmodder26 said:
However, the Bhut Jolokia, Bih Jolokia, and Naga Morich are different peppers.  
 
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I guess I wont be going to Wikipedia anymore to get my information.   :)
 
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PepperDaddler said:
Now I am starting to understand and that makes sense. I just have noticed there seem to be a lot of those varieties and it seems never ending to the point of confusion at times. I will check it out.
 
 
 
I guess I wont be going to Wikipedia anymore to get my information.
 
Is there somewhere else where there is a concise yet informative guide to some of these peppers, preferably with pictures?
 
I know THP is the obvious answer, but I mean something all in one place without days of searching?

EDIT:
 
 
What I meant was a lot of varieties, not just 7s and scorpions.
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Again, pepperlover.com is your friend.  She has pictures of the different varities I mentioned above.  You'll see the difference.
 
Edit:  Here's a page that describes how the Dorset Naga came about.
 
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Now, as far as the Primo goes, it is actually a cross between a 7 Pot and . . . a naga something .  .. I think.  Primo did it with a University . . . Luisiana, I think . . . trying to pull this up from memory.
 
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It all is a lot more clear after visiting the site. The descriptions go into much detail and the pics help greatly.
 
So are there actually any peppers that go by more than one name or are mistakenly labeled?

Maybe it would have been best to ask it that way in the first place.

:doh:
 
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In just the case of Bhut vs Bih Jolokia. This is from The Hippy Seed Company`s web site.
 
 


[SIZE=medium]A Genetic Comparison of “Bhut Jolokia” and “Bih Jolokia”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Thesis:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Literature Review and Research Paper[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Faculty of Agriculture[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The University of Sydney[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]23[/SIZE][SIZE=7.0961pt]th[/SIZE][SIZE=16pt] October 2009[/SIZE]




[SIZE=medium]Conclusions:[/SIZE]
 * “Bhut Jolokia” and “Bih Jolokia” have different genetic structure based on comparison of DNA fragment and sequence data using 3 molecular techniques employed across six of the 12 Capsicum chromosomes.
* “Bih Jolokia” genetic structure is highly homologous with C.chinense and C.frutescens species whereas “Bhut Jolokia” is structurally more closely linked with C.annuum species.
* Reduced crop load in “Bhut Jolokia” as compared with “Bih Jolokia” may be linked to genetic self incompatibility.
* Continued research comparing such varieties and their closely related native landraces will prove to be vital in understanding evolutionary relationships that may be useful in overcoming agricultural barriers such as crop yield for such varieties.
 
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is the trinidad 7 pot douglah the same as the 7 pot chocolate? according to a list i read somwhere the chocolate 7 pot is 2nd place and the doughlah is 5th place in worlds hottest im confused because i am growing chocolate 7 pot douglah   that picture of that guy is hilarious! 
 
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In terms of the VERY different types of 7-pot, most are crosses. Primo is a cross between the original Red 7-pot and a Naga (not sure which one). Madballz 7 is a cross between a Yellow 7-pot and a Chocolate Bhut Jolokia. 7-pot Barrackpore was discovered near the town of Barrackpore. 7-pot Chaguanas was discovered in the Chaguanas region of Trinidad. Moruga in the Moruga region etc etc etc. Douglah is named for the local Trinidad name for a person of mixed race, so Red Douglah is a name that does not make sense, even if it is descriptive. 
 
The rest are varieties found in different parts of Trinidad and may or may not be natural crosses with other peppers (like Trini Scorpions). The more of these you grow, the more you think that they are all related and intermixed with the Scorpions, too.

newpeppergrower1105 said:
is the trinidad 7 pot douglah the same as the 7 pot chocolate? according to a list i read somwhere the chocolate 7 pot is 2nd place and the doughlah is 5th place in worlds hottest im confused because i am growing chocolate 7 pot douglah   that picture of that guy is hilarious! 
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It`s a great question. The answer I got was that most who have grown them side by side think they are 2 different types. However, the 2 names are used interchangeably a great deal away from THP. 
 
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A lot of this is the collective "our" fault.  When growers start a cross with the intention to make a new pepper, then they need to ensure stability before sharing seeds.  If they are going to attach a name to it, it needs to be stable, or else we will start to get names for different peppers, misclassified peppers, etc.  Also, the general description and name of a pepper comes from the area discovered or the grower (as nigel said).  But the name is completely in the creator's hands.  As far as adding a color descriptor, it is important when identifiying which strain of pepper you are sharing/selling.  It is not necessarily the 'name', but it tells the grower/consumer which type of 7 Pot, Bhut, etc they are growing. It is necessary. 
 
New peppers are popping up all the time, and as this community continues to grow, I would not be surprised to see dozens of more names pop up over the next few years.  The best thing we could do as a community is ensure stability before giving it a name.  The peppers should be PEPPER X PEPPER F# until stable, and then the grower could unveil the name. 
 
Growers like Grant (junglerain) are very good at this.  He has a hybrid list of peppers and they are all unamed because they are not stable more-or-less.  We all have seen the unpredictability in new varities (think Reaper/HP series), and that is a prime example of unstable strains being spread.  Think about it this way, some guy who doesn't know any better grows out the reaper and his is the wrong pheno.  He then shares seeds with others, who think they are correct, but are not.  The same thing happens....lets say one out of 50 grows.  Eventually we will be like...which is the reaper? The elongated rusty colored one or the one that is a spitting image of a 7 Pot Primo....A bit of a stretch, but I am sure you catch my drift.
 
AISPES is an organization that knows what they are doing, and are doing things the right way.  But, for the OP, you are correct, this can be confusing, but once you learn what to look for you will be excited to find all the crazy varieties to grow. 
 
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+1 to #18
 
Even in the absence of crosses, remember that the "original" bhut jolokia or 7 pot or whatever, are all landraces and thus have quite a bit of inherent genetic variability.  According to CPI it takes a minimum of 60 plants freely interbreeding to maintain that diversity.  Most growers can't/don't grow that many plants of a particular variety.  So each subsequent generation will have a smaller subset of the original genetic diversity.  Eventually, each "sub-variety" will start showing the effects of that narrowing genetic base, especially when the "best"plants (hottest, biggest, best color, best shape, best flavor, etc.) of each generation are selected for propagation.  Alternatively, a random sport can show up (think yellow bhut jolokia) and be selected for isolated propagation.  In either case, these branches from the original landrace trunk can form the foundation of a new, named variety.
 
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