DEFCON Creator said:
Tina,
As far as I know, there are NO happy ketones, which are viable for human consumption. The lovely acetone/benzene/hexane/etc. family are the major players in this happy little family. The reason they are used is the fact that the capsaicin is soluable in them, and the sugar is not. It's the quicky method of large production-quantity extraction of capsaicin, meanwhile, leaving everything (virtually) else behind. The lipophilic solution coodinates the use of fats, oils, and even triglycerides and sterols to produce the said effect, and the hydrophilic simply uses water. The hydrophilic method is, of course, the most simple. The problem with it, even alcohol, is that you reach a 'glass ceiling' as to the pureness of the said extract, as sugar has an almost immediate atomic bond with capsaicin. Makes sense, considering the sugar percentage in nearly all peppers (including the hot ones) is nearly 80%. That's when the 'ancient Chinese secrets' (Calgon take me away) come into play. Our method not only uses high grade alcohol, but high pressure and CO2 in the process, and a step I won't mention (NO, no chemicals). Ketones are deadly, but if you have a few 10's of thousands of dollars to throw around for lab equipment, you can extract them out, so your customers won't be spitting up their organs before bedtime. Strangely enough (most producers will know this), mass production capsaicin extracts mainly come from just a few companies. It's kind of like private label companies that will slap your label on the same sauce that they sell others. We don't want to go down that road, so we do it our way, which tends to taste a lot better (as extracts go) than the ketone extracts do, albeit the time involved is a lot more. Well, enough said, perhaps I have been informative for some...
You're a chemisty major, aintcha???
lol, ya mean like Dave and Melinda???
I said last week to someone that with as much as I know about peppers, I still have a ton to learn... This is what I was talking about! S'ok, I love doing this sort of thing.
Here's what I learned in the little time I've had to putter about the net... And short of getting a degree in chemisty, this is as close as I get to the reality of the concept of ketones and capsaicin extract.
I can't find anything on the net that says anything about food grade ketones. And as you say, John, there's no such thing, but anyway, I have to admit that what I have been calling "ketones" are more properly called solvents, and I'll probably learn a little more about it as the chemists I called get back to me, but in the meantime, when I say "ketone", for lack of better knowledge of chemistry, I really mean "solvent"
Ketone extracts to me, are, I suppose, either a misnomer or an outright error on my part; more likely the latter. So, you must forgive me, but anyone who has ever used nail polish remover or worked in a chem lab that uses Ketone solvents might have an idea what I'm referring to. If it smells like nail polish remover, it's a solvent, and in my pointy little head, it's a ketone. And since as you say, they're really using Acetone, another key ingredient in nail polish remover... Sigh.
So... moving forward, I shall refrain from using the word "ketone" and say "solvent" Although I might just say "nail polish remover" in future. haha
So, here you go... here's what I found...
From the US Government and they oughta know...
"(3) The term natural flavor or natural flavoring means the essential oil, oleoresin, essence or extractive, protein hydrolysate, distillate, or any product of roasting, heating or enzymolysis, which contains the flavoring constituents derived from a spice, fruit or fruit juice, vegetable or vegetable juice, edible yeast, herb, bark, bud, root, leaf
or similar plant material, meat, seafood, poultry, eggs, dairy products, or fermentation products thereof, whose significant function in food is flavoring rather than nutritional. Natural flavors include the natural
essence or extractives obtained from plants listed in Sec. Sec. 182.10, 182.20, 182.40, and 182.50 and part 184 of this chapter, and the substances listed in Sec. 172.510 of this chapter."
This is a study on source reduction of chlorinated solvents and it refers to solvents used in spice oleoresins.
On page 10, it says that of five chlorinated solvents, only Methelyne Chloride (METH) is used in spice oleoresin extraction. It also states that in processes some of the chemical is left behind.
The section of the study that refers to the spice oleoresins starts at the bottom of page 22 and on page 24, it describes the two process for extracting oleoresins...
"In the continuous process, raw spice is pulverized until the required particle size distribution is reached, and then percolated with a volatile solvent like METH. The solvent extracts the active ingredients which impart aroma and taste to the spice. The solution is then boiled and vacuum distilled to remove all but small quantities of the solvent. The resulting product is called oleoresin.
In the batch process, the spice is subjected to steam under pressure, which volatizes the aromatic principals. The spice is then dried and percolated with solvent to remove the flavor principals. Afterwards the essential oils and flavors are combined and form oleoresins."
So, I stand corrected, ketones is the wrong word... they really are using solvents.
Hey, you know what else I learned? METH is cancer causing... some fun huh kids???
Seriously though, given the choice between methylene chloride and ketones, I ask you... which one do YOU want to put in YOUR mouth???
I know my answer... Mega YUCK! Gimme fresh habaneros any day!
T
