Actually as far as I know the Butch T's highest recorded SHU was 1,463,700 and bhuts have tested as low as 279,315 SHU and as high as 1,578,548 in recent testing but in most climates/conditions they average well below 1 million
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Brain Strain vs Butch T
- Thread starter PepperJam
- Start date
I thought Bhuts avg'ed at 1m ... INteresting..
I personally think they should just use the median number to the 100k for anything over 600k to make it easier lol.. they can still have the same records but they should have one of those charts too becasue unless you are eating 10 at a time you arent feeling the mean, but you are feeling most likely the median.
The only problem with this is testing. The ButchT has had a lot of testing, but the brain has never been officialy tested as far as I know. I would like to think that the median would be a good guide, however, if you take a Bhut for example, that can present a pretty huge margin of error. Bhuts have tested as low as 200k and change and in the low 1mil for the highs. If you take the median of that you are pretty unlikely to hit the accurate portrayal of a backyard Bhut. However, if you take the mean, you will probably be on track. The same goes with the TSMB. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it spread from like the 500k to 2.1 mil. The median is probably a round about expectation of what you can get, but the mean will always be more accuarate because it draws from a larger pool of results.
But in the end those who are marketing these seeds are gonna tell you that they are 1.4 million SHU ButchTs, or 2.1 million TSMBs, because that is what sells. As long as we keep good records about what the pod is capable of, I think we will be on the right track in the grower world.
Good comment!
+ 1 one the jonahs.
I would really like to sample a few of Cappy's Brain Strains before I gave a final opinion, but I did get a box of them from Dale, and took a few to "hot pepper night" which we have every Monday night at a local restauarnt and bar. We had about 9 people at the bar that night and everyone said the Brains were hotter than both the Morugas and the Butch Ts. We usually sample about 6 different hot peppers each Monday night and we keep getting new people adding to the group. Where else can you sample all these fine peppers for free? I must say that the brains were not that much more hot than the others, and that is why I would like to try some from the source. We are usually not eating entire peppers, but mainly papper slices, so it is much easier to tell between different heat amounts, even at this level.
Another thing we do, after everyone has had their fill of fresh peppers, we slice up all the peppers, and include some of the halapinos they have there at the restaurant, and sometimes add some onions, and the guys out back will fry us up a big batch of mixed fried peppers and onions, and give us about 5 different dipping sauces to go with them. Usually we will have morugas, butch ts bhuts, nagas, yellow 7s, and red savinas. We have also sampled yellow brains, chocolate bhuts, regular brains, Jonahs, and Barake Pores, when available. When these slices are fried it seems to take about half the heat away, but it is consistant for all the peppers, and when you eat the fried slices, it is obvious which peppers are hotter. When they are mixed, sometimes you don't know whether you are eating a bhut or a scorpion, but as soon as you eat you, it is very obvious when you chomp down on a scorpion.
For us, the brains were just a bit hotter and the burn lasted a bit longer as well, but it sounds like I need to try some of Cappy's at hot pepper night before I say for sure how hot they are.
Another thing we do, after everyone has had their fill of fresh peppers, we slice up all the peppers, and include some of the halapinos they have there at the restaurant, and sometimes add some onions, and the guys out back will fry us up a big batch of mixed fried peppers and onions, and give us about 5 different dipping sauces to go with them. Usually we will have morugas, butch ts bhuts, nagas, yellow 7s, and red savinas. We have also sampled yellow brains, chocolate bhuts, regular brains, Jonahs, and Barake Pores, when available. When these slices are fried it seems to take about half the heat away, but it is consistant for all the peppers, and when you eat the fried slices, it is obvious which peppers are hotter. When they are mixed, sometimes you don't know whether you are eating a bhut or a scorpion, but as soon as you eat you, it is very obvious when you chomp down on a scorpion.
For us, the brains were just a bit hotter and the burn lasted a bit longer as well, but it sounds like I need to try some of Cappy's at hot pepper night before I say for sure how hot they are.
We debated tthis for months and the overall consensus is that the numbers used to test are not an accurate portrayal of what a backyard gardener can expect. 20 samples is no where near the number we need to be at. In order to accurately map the heat range, they would need to test multiple pods from hundreds of plants. They would need to test indoor plants, stressed plants, plants grown in permissive environments, etc. Then I love the idea that Doomz threw out and have a scale. Something along the lines of "this pepper ranges from # to # with a mean of #.
There are two huge issues with this. One, a lot of the chili tests are being done at the CPI, and as a result, the growing conditions are
pretty far from what I have in eastern NC, or growers in Denmark for example. The second thing is money. From my understanding, it is pretty expensive to do the testing at the magnitude at which would be required to have an accurate heat scale.
Truthfully, it doesn't bother me much. I take a bite and gets my heat scale. It is either, hmmm, wow, or that was a stupid decision. I also rely on great reviewers to tell me how the pepper they are eating compares to others, tastes, and grows. The numbers game is more important for those who are making a living selling them. Also, in my opinion, the Brain is hotter.
What have you tried/What do you have growing?
There are two huge issues with this. One, a lot of the chili tests are being done at the CPI, and as a result, the growing conditions are
pretty far from what I have in eastern NC, or growers in Denmark for example. The second thing is money. From my understanding, it is pretty expensive to do the testing at the magnitude at which would be required to have an accurate heat scale.
Truthfully, it doesn't bother me much. I take a bite and gets my heat scale. It is either, hmmm, wow, or that was a stupid decision. I also rely on great reviewers to tell me how the pepper they are eating compares to others, tastes, and grows. The numbers game is more important for those who are making a living selling them. Also, in my opinion, the Brain is hotter.
What have you tried/What do you have growing?
I agree with Matt. There is one point I'd like to hit on though. From the point of view of the reviewer, I think it's pretty important to try to get pods that are truly representative of the potential max heat they can deliver. I found it necessary with the Butch T. The pods I grew and reviewed, while hot, didn't seem representative of what they should truly be. So that's why I contacted Butch and got a few pods from his own garden. His were leaps and bounds hotter than any previous Butch T pods I've tried as well as anything else I had tried prior to that pod. The same applied with the Moruga Scorpion and Brainstrain. I contacted Judy because I consider her a VERY reputable grower/seed source. The Moruga Scorpion she gave me didn't disappoint and I consider it to be as hot as the Butch T that Butch gave me. The Brainstrain on the other hand still hasn't lived up to what other people have said about it. I've now had 4 Brainstrains (2 Yellow and 2 Red). The first pepper I ate was a yellow and made me throw up (I'm giving some of that to my lower tolerance at the time). However the rest have not been what I come to expect from them, including the one Judy sent me. I'm considering contacting Cappy and seeing if he would send me a pod or two to review. What I'm getting at is, as a reviewer, I feel that we should strive to show our audience what these pods can truly deliver. And I think the best way to shoot for that is either get them straight from the source whenever possible, or get them from growers who have built up a solid reputation of producing quality pods/seeds.
Now I'm by no means saying that reviewing pods from your own backyard or from a lesser known source aren't warranted. But they are most likely not going to represent the upper echelon of what these pods can truly deliver.
Now I'm by no means saying that reviewing pods from your own backyard or from a lesser known source aren't warranted. But they are most likely not going to represent the upper echelon of what these pods can truly deliver.
Going to be eating this Brain tonight with friends. This is from a 3 Yr old Brain Strain plant. The peppers off of it last year were unbelievably hot. This was the first pepper that my friend, who is normally crazier with heat than I am, ate that made him super tear up and then told me he will NEVER eat another pepper I give him....
That looks scary. Frightening even.
The only thing up with avgs is lets say a bhut hits on the scale
10x: 200k
and
20x: 1.3m
That doesnt mean you are probably going to geta pepper with a shu between that. It means that you ar emost liekly gonna get a 1.3m pepper with the chance of a very low one.. Otherwsie, the avg wouldve showed up more often in the results..
10x: 200k
and
20x: 1.3m
That doesnt mean you are probably going to geta pepper with a shu between that. It means that you ar emost liekly gonna get a 1.3m pepper with the chance of a very low one.. Otherwsie, the avg wouldve showed up more often in the results..
actually, a sample of 20 will give us a good confidence interval for these estimator (mean and variance of the distribution), we dont really need 100s for something like this, unless we are expecting huge variance. Anyways, scales could work, but than we end up meansureing the populations tollerance to heat. So we could probably just get someone from CPI to release some data. Or we get someone who grow both of these to test them. We are trying to find which is the hottest, so this means which one can have the potential to reach the higher end.
Is 500k to 2.1 mil not a large enough variance?
How about 200k to 1mil?
These are common spans for peppers that are out there right now. I mean, if you are going with 20 pods, then they need to be selected from the aforementioned conditions. And yes, you will get a high confidence enough number to give one or the other the top spot. However, I we are going with the numbers a pepper is capable of, more testing is required to help refine it.
I look at it this way, I would think the more testing conducted, the more accurate the results. A good benchmark is likely attained with a small sampling, however, it can always be refined.
It is too bad these are all pipe dreams. It would be nice if there were money for all this testing. Right now it seems like they are only concerned with records not knowledge.
How about 200k to 1mil?
These are common spans for peppers that are out there right now. I mean, if you are going with 20 pods, then they need to be selected from the aforementioned conditions. And yes, you will get a high confidence enough number to give one or the other the top spot. However, I we are going with the numbers a pepper is capable of, more testing is required to help refine it.
I look at it this way, I would think the more testing conducted, the more accurate the results. A good benchmark is likely attained with a small sampling, however, it can always be refined.
It is too bad these are all pipe dreams. It would be nice if there were money for all this testing. Right now it seems like they are only concerned with records not knowledge.
I figured out a perfect way to judge two really hot peppers. Take two knives, and cut up the two peppers. Keep the two identical knives separate. Now use both of them to cut slices of a good bread, and both of them to spread butter on those slices. Taste. Decide. It works.
I only realized this after my visiting mother pulled my paring blade out of the pint glass of water in my sink. It was two hours after I used it to cut up a Butch T for some homemade sauce. This is my new litmus test for heat and flavor.
Remember, it was Neil Bergenstein, from Baltimore, Maryland, USA that suggested this approach.
I only realized this after my visiting mother pulled my paring blade out of the pint glass of water in my sink. It was two hours after I used it to cut up a Butch T for some homemade sauce. This is my new litmus test for heat and flavor.
Remember, it was Neil Bergenstein, from Baltimore, Maryland, USA that suggested this approach.
Hopefully this doesn't create too much controversy, but from a purely scientific standpoint even the scoville rating is at least a little subjective. When you throw in people's tolerance, plant genetics and wide variety of growing conditions, the only way to truly put this argument to rest would be to do a representative sample of each pure strain (good luck with that) from many different plants and probably test the actual capsaicin amount per milligram (or something of the sort) for each pod, then compare the averages. You might even have to figure in the amounts of natural sugars which would negate a little of the capsaicin.
I would be willing to attempt this if everyone would just send me a few BS and Butch T seeds...better throw in some douglahs as well...
I would be willing to attempt this if everyone would just send me a few BS and Butch T seeds...better throw in some douglahs as well...
I thought that modern day "scoville" testing was done via HPLC (High-performance liquid chromatography). So it wouldn't be really subjective like the original scoville tests were conducted. Or am I misunderstanding what you were meaning by the subjectivity of scoville ratings?