CaneDog 2019 Hirsute Pursuit – Rocotos, Wilds & Moar

So, here's the new glog for the coming season.  With the indoor grow culled pretty hard now I can focus more on getting ready for what's ahead.  Hoping for a great year, but I’m already a bit behind - the germinators are packed right now and I've still got a round of annuum seeds waiting for their turn.  I guess it wouldn’t feel much like pepper growing though if everything were going perfect.
 
My focus was going to be rocotos with a side of bonnets and some other stuff, but I found I kept planting more and more wilds. Eventually I just kinda went all-in with them and they took on co-main event status. 
 
I’ll start things off with some pics of some of the earlier pube’s.  There’s not too many at this point. Unfortunately, the vast majority just went into germination.
 
First off, Costa Rica Red.  This is the CRR with flattened triangular pods.  I also have an OW CRR that’s a 3-4 lobed “boxy” variety.  I didn't get true seeds off this one last summer, so I have a few of these growing and crossing my fingers they grow true.

 
Rocoto DeSeda.  These guys were from a bush I’d OW’d a few years in a row, but it didn’t make it through this winter

 
 
Rocoto San Camillo

 
 
Gelbe Reisen Variant.  These are from true seeds off a plant I’ve been growing for a few years that was supposed to be Gelbe Riesen, but the pods are more orange vs yellow, rounder/less boxy, and just a touch smaller. I don’t know if it’s a natural variation or it might have crossed with a Costa Rica Orange, but it's a great plant. I have a few of these started and am curious what comes of them.

 
 
Giant Yellow Rocoto.  Suppose I should pinch that bud off.

 
 
Recently hatched Gelbe Riesen sprouts (the parent plant has been a beast for me for a while now) and CAP 217 Hyper-Pube.

 
That’s it for the rocotos for now.  Will try to post up some pics of the early wilds in a little bit. 
 
CD

 

[PaulG]

Premature duckulation?

 
 
 
 

 

[CaneDog]

Premature duckulation?

duckling.jpg

 
Duck call.
 
And it worked!

 

[PaulG]

Awesome, buddy!

 

[CaneDog]

I had these branches break off my chacoense putapario a couple weeks back and I've been keeping them in a bottle to try to get the pods ripe.  The branches look on their last legs now, but many of the pods have ripened from being fully green at the time the branch broke. 
 
I'm running germination tests on some other seeds right now so I thought I'd run a test on these as well and see how vigorous (or not) the seeds are after ripening in this manner.
 

 

[BDASPNY]

It's laughing-off the hole in the 8' ceiling that would be tough, but heck, if that GW X has it in it to grow 10 feet then it can just go on with its bad self and do it.
 
 
 
 
 
 

DuckCall.jpg

its funny you say that, while it wasn't in a grow tent but I had plant I expected to be 5 foot or less. 3 months later it was 7+ foot. lol

 

[Uncle Eckley]

Loved the duck call! 
 
I get excited when I find mention of a pepper I've heard of in your glog, CD.  Lots of cool stuff I don't understand! 

 

[CaneDog]

Loved the duck call! 
 
I get excited when I find mention of a pepper I've heard of in your glog, CD.  Lots of cool stuff I don't understand! 

 
Thanks E.  It's good to be seeing you around more again.   If you decide you want to become better acquainted with anything in particular that I'm growing, just let me know.  I was planning to get you out a package of some cool stuff at the end of this season anyway.

 

[Uncle Eckley]

Thanks E.  It's good to be seeing you around more again.   If you decide you want to become better acquainted with anything in particular that I'm growing, just let me know.  I was planning to get you out a package of some cool stuff at the end of this season anyway.

That's awfully thoughtful. Thank you.

I snagged some Rocoto Peru Cusco seeds from the seed train, was thinking about growing one next to my chair where it's nice and cool next season. A red one to pair it would be neat.

 

[CaneDog]

its funny you say that, while it wasn't in a grow tent but I had plant I expected to be 5 foot or less. 3 months later it was 7+ foot. lol

 
Given how well you've done with your grow this season I'm not surprised!

 

[CaneDog]

That's awfully thoughtful. Thank you.

I snagged some Rocoto Peru Cusco seeds from the seed train, was thinking about growing one next to my chair where it's nice and cool next season. A red one to pair it would be neat.

 
My cusco this season was a beast of a plant, but I never got a pod off it.  Not only was it a later start, but I had it separate from the rest and managed to forget it outside the other night when I brought the rest inside for a cold overnight.  Hopefully some of those RPC seeds are still on the A Train when it reaches the PNW. 
 
I have some great reds - plus browns and also a couple really cool oranges I just picked up.  Once I get my arms around this mess of pods and seeds drying around here I'll send you some ideas and see if anything interests you.

 

[b3rnd]

I had these branches break off my chacoense putapario a couple weeks back and I've been keeping them in a bottle to try to get the pods ripe.  The branches look on their last legs now, but many of the pods have ripened from being fully green at the time the branch broke. 
 
I'm running germination tests on some other seeds right now so I thought I'd run a test on these as well and see how vigorous (or not) the seeds are after ripening in this manner.
 

20191030 PutaparioBranch.jpg

 
I had a whole plant snap at the main stem after a storm. It was my only plant of the Aji Angelo x Cumari Pollux cross I did. All of the pods were still unripe and I let them ripen on the broken plant. I didn't notice any drastic change in germination, around ~90% still germed.

 

[PaulG]

 
I had a whole plant snap at the main stem after a storm. It was my only plant of the Aji Angelo x Cumari Pollux cross I did. All of the pods were still unripe and I let them ripen on the broken plant. I didn't notice any drastic change in germination, around ~90% still germed.

 
Bernd! Good to see your face on the forum!
 
That's cool about the viability of the seeds
after hanging upside down. Gives me hope
for my JA Mushroom peppers!

 

[CaneDog]

I had a whole plant snap at the main stem after a storm. It was my only plant of the Aji Angelo x Cumari Pollux cross I did. All of the pods were still unripe and I let them ripen on the broken plant. I didn't notice any drastic change in germination, around ~90% still germed.

 
That's encouraging.  I'm sure it was a relief when they did ripen (and germinate), being your only opportunity to keep the cross going.
 
In this case I have other ripe pods from the main plant, but I've wondered if the seeds are just as good when green fruit ripens on broken branches or just sitting on the counter.  Perhaps it doesn't make a difference how they ripen.  Your experience certainly supports that.
 
Thanks for the info B3rnd!

 

[b3rnd]

 
Bernd! Good to see your face on the forum!
 
That's cool about the viability of the seeds
after hanging upside down. Gives me hope
for my JA Mushroom peppers!

 
Thanks Paul! Good to be back. I've been checking the growdown and some threads here and there, but I just haven't found the time to be very active.
 

 
That's encouraging.  I'm sure it was a relief when they did ripen (and germinate), being your only opportunity to keep the cross going.
 
In this case I have other ripe pods from the main plant, but I've wondered if the seeds are just as good when green fruit ripens on broken branches or just sitting on the counter.  Perhaps it doesn't make a difference how they ripen.  Your experience certainly supports that.
 
Thanks for the info B3rnd!

 
Yes, it was definitely a relief. I did manage to root a small branch in the end, so even if the seeds were bad I'd have another chance next year. Still good to not waste a season though! 
 
I'm not sure if there's a difference in how they ripen. I do know that there will be viable seeds even if the peppers are still green, after reaching a certain point of maturity. It is talked about in this scientific study: 
 
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecs2.2174
 
Excerpt from the abstract: "We concluded that the germination and viability rates of the seeds of each plant species depend on many factors (e.g., dormancy and time of exposure to predators); however, for all the species studied, there is some evidence that seeds can germinate before they reach maturity by color."
 
The paper isn't about peppers specifically. They studied six neotropical bird-dispersed fruits, and as we all know wild Capsicum species fall under that category.

 

[CaneDog]

I'm not sure if there's a difference in how they ripen. I do know that there will be viable seeds even if the peppers are still green, after reaching a certain point of maturity. It is talked about in this scientific study: 
 
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ecs2.2174
 
Excerpt from the abstract: "We concluded that the germination and viability rates of the seeds of each plant species depend on many factors (e.g., dormancy and time of exposure to predators); however, for all the species studied, there is some evidence that seeds can germinate before they reach maturity by color."
 
The paper isn't about peppers specifically. They studied six neotropical bird-dispersed fruits, and as we all know wild Capsicum species fall under that category.

 
Cool stuff B3rnd.  The study has some interesting material in it, though it sounds like it didn't go quite like they expected in a few areas - like them being unable to get 4 of the 6 varieties to actually germinate!  Pretty sure I've known that feeling though
 
Seems like their results support that different species may have higher viability at different times, with some showing good germination potential at green, some doing best at intermediate states, yet most following a gradual improvement in viability over the maturation/color change process. 
 
And a bit of a frustrating conclusion:  "Therefore, it is important to be able to determine the timing and the best way to extract seeds of different species, in order to obtain high rates of germination and generate new conservation strategies for the species that require them."
 
So, "your results may vary."  
 
Anyhow, this is timely as I'm running viability tests on certain seeds groups right now and I have the germinator up and running.  Maybe I'll pick a couple green pods I have around here and throw their seeds in with the rest to see how they do.  Always good to learn new stuff.

 

[Uncle Eckley]

Always good to learn new stuff.

 
+1

 

[b3rnd]

 
Cool stuff B3rnd.  The study has some interesting material in it, though it sounds like it didn't go quite like they expected in a few areas - like them being unable to get 4 of the 6 varieties to actually germinate!  Pretty sure I've known that feeling though
 
Seems like their results support that different species may have higher viability at different times, with some showing good germination potential at green, some doing best at intermediate states, yet most following a gradual improvement in viability over the maturation/color change process. 
 
And a bit of a frustrating conclusion:  "Therefore, it is important to be able to determine the timing and the best way to extract seeds of different species, in order to obtain high rates of germination and generate new conservation strategies for the species that require them."
 
So, "your results may vary."  
 
Anyhow, this is timely as I'm running viability tests on certain seeds groups right now and I have the germinator up and running.  Maybe I'll pick a couple green pods I have around here and throw their seeds in with the rest to see how they do.  Always good to learn new stuff.

 
Yes YMMV, especially because they studied completely different plants. The only similarities being that they're red, neotropical and bird-dispersed. We'd have to test it to find out the specifics for peppers. Even then the results might vary species to species or even variety to variety. But the study at least hints us the possibilty of getting viable seeds from not completely ripe peppers.
 
I got just one single seed from one of my crossed pods this year and the pepper was still green when it accidentally broke off. I have another crossed pod that is still ripening so I thought I'd give it a try. The seed looked good. It's just one seed so it's not much of an experiment, but I'll update when something happens. Or not. Looking forward to your results as well.

 

[CraftyFox]

I have read others talking about unripe peppers having viable seeds, but had yet to see or seek related studies. Thanks for that!
It's definitely easy to see they ripen in succession, for the most part, in the pod. It actually made a lot of sense the first time I heard it, considering how often you miss other berries if you wait til they are ripe. I've been wondering (from a breeding standpoint) just how long that would take.. On the minimum. Even if you are only getting a smaller pool of seeds, the process of stabilizing a hybrid could become much faster.. 

I'm pretty confident you've all already had this or similar thoughts.. Just cool to see work on it.  Someday I'll be ready for breeding them, but I'm still getting my bearings with peppers.  What kinds of turnover times are you all seeing indoors from seed? Any species/strains of particular speed? It seems like Tabasco/Thai type Annuum chili's are the fastest I have, but it's hard to say with my random germination starts. 

 

 

[BDASPNY]

Given how well you've done with your grow this season I'm not surprised!

I was pretty shocked. I need to use a better support system, that plant outgrew its cage before it even had peppers ready. lol

 

[CaneDog]

I just dropped green seeds from 2 varieties of Jalapeno and a rocoto last night.  I picked the seeds that looked mature and left out those that didn't to avoid those rotting during attempted germination.  I may try a few others later, but we'll see how these do in the meantime.
 

I have read others talking about unripe peppers having viable seeds, but had yet to see or seek related studies. Thanks for that!
It's definitely easy to see they ripen in succession, for the most part, in the pod. It actually made a lot of sense the first time I heard it, considering how often you miss other berries if you wait til they are ripe. I've been wondering (from a breeding standpoint) just how long that would take.. On the minimum. Even if you are only getting a smaller pool of seeds, the process of stabilizing a hybrid could become much faster.. 

I'm pretty confident you've all already had this or similar thoughts.. Just cool to see work on it.  Someday I'll be ready for breeding them, but I'm still getting my bearings with peppers.  What kinds of turnover times are you all seeing indoors from seed? Any species/strains of particular speed? It seems like Tabasco/Thai type Annuum chili's are the fastest I have, but it's hard to say with my random germination starts. 

 
I've thought fastest way to stabilize would be indoor hydro cultivation.  Grafting sprouts to established root stock in a "soil" type medium might also have potential, but could introduce issues at the same time.  I'd think it would be doable in many cases to get 3 generations per year and stabilize within 3 years, though as you point out some species/varieties are simply faster/slower than others. 
 
No reason you couldn't harvest a green pod earlier than the rest and see if the seeds germinate, but I think I'd focus on growing out the strongest seeds after giving them reasonable time to ripen, then hurrying the plants into production.  If you harvested green and they sprouted, you've still have to have final confirmation of the selected traits (especially color) after the other pods ripened, but maybe that could shave off a couple weeks.