Coach's 2015 Overwhelming Grow

Wicked Mike · Dec 13, 2014

Rick,

Nice start, man. I'll be following it.

I think you're on the right track. First off, you can never go wrong popping a few plants out to have a look at what's going on below the surface; they're a lot like icebergs in that sense.

Roots should be vigorous, thick, white, and fuzzy. Your dirt should be moist at best, not wet, and shouldn't smell funky.

Yellowing leaves and lagging growth can often reflect fungal pathogens like Pythium or Phytophthera attacking your roots. If your roots are withered and thin, brown, or don't smell good, this is probably the case.

As an experiment, I'd pick up a bag of Miracle-Gro and bump a few plants up to 4" pots. I know it has a prilled fertilizer in it, but I've never had any problems. I mix Nutricote into my base potting mix, and everything I grow goes into it as soon as it comes out of the plugs.

Bumped these up yesterday:

These were transplanted maybe a week ago:

These are further along:

I'm by no means versed in indoor growing, so I can't speak to the possibility that lighting or other indoor growing factors may be having an effect.

coachspencerxc · Dec 13, 2014

Wicked Mike said:
Rick,

Nice start, man. I'll be following it.

I think you're on the right track. First off, you can never go wrong popping a few plants out to have a look at what's going on below the surface; they're a lot like icebergs in that sense.

Roots should be vigorous, thick, white, and fuzzy. Your dirt should be moist at best, not wet, and shouldn't smell funky.

Yellowing leaves and lagging growth can often reflect fungal pathogens like Pythium or Phytophthera attacking your roots. If your roots are withered and thin, brown, or don't smell good, this is probably the case.

As an experiment, I'd pick up a bag of Miracle-Gro and bump a few plants up to 4" pots. I know it has a prilled fertilizer in it, but I've never had any problems. I mix Nutricote into my base potting mix, and everything I grow goes into it as soon as it comes out of the plugs.

These are further along:

I'm by no means versed in indoor growing, so I can't speak to the possibility that lighting or other indoor growing factors may be having an effect.

Very very helpful, Mike... and jealousy inducing. My problem is the seedlings sprouted just fine & then stalled out for a 3-4 weeks. Few roots to speak of. I'll give some of this a shot. Thanks!

Considering another lighting option to add to 2 x 2 bulb T8s units...

Trying to come up with good cheap(er) options with versitility & minimal (or no) electrical work. Thinking of 2 power strips with 2 of these adapters & Y splitters with two 23w CFLS each.
http://m.lowes.com/pd/Project-Source-660-Watt-Ivory-Medium-Light-Socket-Adapter/3775911

How does that sound?

JJJessee · Dec 14, 2014

Good going, Coach. I'm with you in the car washing department, but just barely could crack 40 miles a day on foot

I've just used the T8 for two years now, and plants do just fine but I like to keep them not more than about 2-3" from the plant tops.
Watch for drying out too fast though. Room humidity, heat and such make it hard to water by a schedule.
The yellowing was a big problem for me my first year. They still stumbled along, but once they got in the ground they took off and made good.
Your soil looks like it may have some undigested bark/wood in there. That will suck nitrogen away from seedlings which have less tolerance for things to be out of balance. The second year I splurged and bought bags of Ocean Forest potting soil. It works like a charm -almost too easy. I've since been instructed on making a pretty good soil mix, but it takes time and $$$. Depending on your total volume needs it may not pay off to make a small batch. A lot of different things will work so don't sweat it. In the end I've learned more from mistakes than success. Good Luck for 2015.

coachspencerxc · Dec 24, 2014

Two weeks since the first time I've posted & I think I've figured some things out... Biggest thing is that these things need more light than I was giving them. I think I had enough in the area, but not close enough. I was going with 2 x 2 T8 fixtures but they were something like 16" from the seedlings. I lowered & then I added some CFLs. Worked fine but then once when I turned it back on, the circuit blew. Every time I plugged in one of the T8s in it blew. Not sure why. It had been working for weeks before. Since then, I've been using one T8 fixture & created a contraption of my own using 3 small power strips, some adapters & 6 CFLs. The power strips are duct taped to a 4' furring strip. I also have 2 clip on CFLs that I'll add to the strips when I get 2 more adapters. I'd like to get that other T8 working again, but it's going well so far. Using 23w/100w equivalent bulbs (with different spectrums), it's what- 18,600 lumens in there now including the T8. I've also boxed the growing area in more with silver insulation.

My problems of yellow cotyledons, shriveling up cotyledons & stalled out growth seem to have all improved once I lowered the lighting, increased the lumens & got a little better on water. They're still very small & it's hard to tell which I planted October 26 & which I planted 3 weeks ago, but even a lot of those whose cotyledons yellowed & fell off are putting out tiny real leaves now.

I took this picture of the Yellow Fatalii in the background, but is the seedling in the foreground (Joemomma's own Bad Brains) showing signs of light burn? I've since rotated it to a different location with a little less direct light. To see how much it was getting, it's the seedling right under the white CFL in the top picture.

Should I be concerned that I'm getting a 2nd set of real leaves on such tiny seedlings? I'm sad to say this seed was planted around November 3 & this is as much growth as I've seen so far. Granted, in the last week- and really in the past 3 days, I've seen a dramatic difference, between a whole lot of seedlings I wasn't sure would make it to signs of life again.

Seedlings in the foreground were planted December 2 & are doing well. Those in the background are bouncing back after sure death. ...eh, not so sure about those in the back left. The largest ones here are jalapenos. I told myself I wouldn't plant annuums until January 1, but did anyway. Early Jalapenos at that, so I may have opened myself up to a different set of issues when these things want to produce pods & the others are lagging behind. I'll deal with that down the road. Tomorrow, I'll separate some of the cells with 2 plants in them.

Thanks to all of the advice you all provided. I was really bummed when I posted this 2 weeks ago. I figured I was sunk- all of this effort, energy & excitement & some $ into something that just wasn't going to pan out for me. Rethinking my whole pepper plan with where to get plants in the spring. Now, I'm confident I've got this round of mistakes behind me & am ready to move forward. I've got four 1020 flats planted & will do 2 more in the next 2 weeks. Annuums & some things I'm expecting in the mail soon or recently got. That'll be it. I'll post an updated grow list soon.

JJJessee · Dec 25, 2014

Lookin' good, Coach.
And you're way ahead of the game time wise. You could start completely over today and still have plenty of time to grow some big transplants.
But looks like they've turned the corner, so no need. If a week or two and go by and something's lagging, yank it, and put in a sub. It's a long way to mid April.

coachspencerxc · Dec 25, 2014

JJJessee said:
Lookin' good, Coach.
And you're way ahead of the game time wise. You could start completely over today and still have plenty of time to grow some big transplants.
But looks like they've turned the corner, so no need. If a week or two and go by and something's lagging, yank it, and put in a sub. It's a long way to mid April.

Thanks, man. I'm noticing progress everyday. Of course, I do spend a lot of time each day looking at them. I bet I'm not the only one. Thanks again. Needed some encouragement.

coachspencerxc · Dec 26, 2014

Wanted to update the grow list & while I was at it, why not a picture? Pimenta Leopards that popped a week ago:

Here's what up & living & how many I have:
7 Pot Jonah x Pimenta Neyda 3
7 Pot Primo, Red 3
7 Pot, Brain Strain, Red 1
7 Pot, White 1
7 Pot, Yellow 1
Aji Amarillo 2
Aji Colorado 1
Aji Fantasy 2
Aji Lemon Drop 2
Aji Omnicolor 1
Aji Pineapple 3
Bad Brains 5
Bahamian Goat 4
Bell, Cinnamon 3
Bhut Jolokia, Peach 2
Bhut Jolokia, Red 7
Bhut Jolokia, White 2
Brazilian Starfish 2
Cayenne, Purple 1
CGN 21500 2 (but looking a little rough)
Congo, Peach 2
Datil 1
Fatalii, Black 5
Fatalii, Peach 3
Fatalii, Chocolate 5
Fatalii, White 2
Fatalii, Yellow 5
Goronong 1
Habanero, Bolivian Bumpy 2
Habanero, Mustard Lightning 3
Habanero, Paper Lantern 2
Habanero, Peach 4
Habanero, Galapagos- Isabella 2
Jalapeño, Early 5
Peach Wasp 2
Pimenta Leopard 4
Rainforest 5
Red Savina x Fatalii Yellow 2
Rocoto, Orange 1
Rocoto, Red 2
Scotch Bonnet MoA, Red 3
Scotch Bonnet MoA, Yellow 6
Scotch Bonnet, Chocolate 2
Sukari 3
Thai, Orange 1
Trinidad Moruga Scorpion, Brown 4
Trinidad Moruga Scorpion, Red 1
Trinidad Scorpion Butch T 3
Trinidad Scorpion CARDI, Yellow 4
Trinidad Scorpion CARDI, Red 4
Trinidad Scorpion Sweet 3
Yellow Jalapeño x 7 Pot Bubblegum 2

Waiting to pop:
7 Pot Yellow x Bhut India Carbon
7 Pot, Chaguanas
7 Pot, Bubblegum
7 Pot, Gigantic Chocolate SR
7 Pot, Jonah
Aji Melocoton
Bhut Jolokia, Black
Bhut Jolokia, Orange Copenhagen
Bhut Jolokia, Yellow
Black Cobra
Black Stinger
Carolina Reaper
Corno di Toro Rosso
Cumari do Para
Habanero, Black
Habanero, Chocolate
Habanero, Lemon
Habanero, Pastel Orange
Habanero, St. Bart's
Jalapeño, Biker Billy
Jay's Peach Ghost Scorpion
Manzano, Yellow
Naga Morich
Peruvian Serlano
Red Savina x Fatalii Red
Scotch Bonnet x 7 Pot Yellow
Trinidad Bean
UBSC

Will plant last round of seeds in about 10 days. ...that is until seed trains come. ...sigh... what a "problem" to have.

Pulpiteer · Dec 26, 2014

Looks like you are bouncing back! Good to hear. That's an amazing list.

JJJessee is right, you are way ahead of the game. Keep at it. You'll have tons of peppers this year, which will pose new problems for you

coachspencerxc · Dec 26, 2014

Pulpiteer said:
Looks like you are bouncing back! Good to hear. That's an amazing list.

JJJessee is right, you are way ahead of the game. Keep at it. You'll have tons of peppers this year, which will pose new problems for you

Thanks. Uhh... yeah, that's what I'm hoping. I've been thinking... "I guess I could stash 10-15 plants at my parents... 10-15 at work..." Has anyone ever moved into a different house because of peppers? I'm looking. Not just for peppers, but for gardening in general & also to be closer to work & daughter's school.

mpicante · Dec 26, 2014

Coach serious grow you got there.Really nice BIG list and cool varieties.Glad to see that those seedlings are poppin'!!!!

thirdcoasttx · Dec 27, 2014

Wow you sure did dive in head first!! One hell of a grow list you got too. Welcome to the addiction. Just a suggestion and personal preference on lighting, look in to high output t5s if you haven't already. I tried t8 at first and quickly decided I didn't like them. As far as soil mixes go I am far from an expert and still trying to find one I like. Last year when I transplanted to 5 gal buckets they went in fox farms ocean forrest and did well but that stuff is kind of expensive and probably a little too hot for young seedlings. I wish you luck this year and will be following along to see how things progress!

PaulS · Dec 27, 2014

Good luck!
What are you going to do with all the peppers?!

coachspencerxc · Dec 27, 2014

PaulS said:
Good luck!
What are you going to do with all the peppers?!

Heyyy, no talk of logic here.
Good question. Eat. Dry. Sauce. Give away. Sell some boxes? Hard to say.

mpicante said:
Coach serious grow you got there.Really nice BIG list and cool varieties.

Thanks!

thirdcoasttx said:
Wow you sure did dive in head first!! One hell of a grow list you got too. Welcome to the addiction. Just a suggestion and personal preference on lighting, look in to high output t5s if you haven't already. I tried t8 at first and quickly decided I didn't like them. As far as soil mixes go I am far from an expert and still trying to find one I like. Last year when I transplanted to 5 gal buckets they went in fox farms ocean forrest and did well but that stuff is kind of expensive and probably a little too hot for young seedlings. I wish you luck this year and will be following along to see how things progress!

Thanks. Yeah, I went with T8 for cost. The CFLs are cheap too, but since I'm already in, I done see making the switch to T5. I have other T8s when I'm ready to move to other shelves & will add more CFLs. My ultimate goal is to get a big jumpstart before putting into the ground in late April- not to get pods indoors. It may not be ideal but I think it'll be good enough.

I've looked at Ocean Forest. Hard to pull the trigger. I had some planting medium my school's Ag classes use & need to get some more. It's good stuff. Have bat guano to add. Could further supplement.

Thanks for the suggestions. That why I'm doing the glog- as a plea for help not really to document all of the great things I'm doing (because to this point the only decent thing I've done is collect 250 varieties of seeds.

PaulS · Dec 28, 2014

coachspencerxc said:
Heyyy, no talk of logic here.
Good question. Eat. Dry. Sauce. Give away. Sell some boxes? Hard to say.

Sorry.
I have the same problem!

JJJessee · Dec 28, 2014

T8s have served me well. I also typically plant in ground outside by about mid-May. T5s are a bit better no doubt, but about 2x the cost of T8 and the Kwh savings are not dramatic. The peppers also enjoy the extra touch of heat in my situation.

coachspencerxc · Dec 29, 2014

Went to the mountains for 48 hours to do some trail running. Came back & I'm almost giddy. These guys are growing by leaps & bounds.

Question though...

Plan was:
* 48 cell-to-a-1020 containers
* 4" square pots
* 3 gallon Viagrow bags (I got 50 for cheap) & assorted salvaged pots
* Ground by May 1 (3 gallons may be small but they aren't the final destination so I think it'll work)

Now, I'm reconsidering, after realizing how large the 4" pots are. 18 per 1020 container. Should I just go Solo cups instead? And when should I make the move? Here are some of the largest I have now. I know I CAN move to larger pots now but do I NEED to? I need to move some that are doubled up in a cell anyway.

Thanks!

ronaldo_fanbelt · Dec 29, 2014

That is some list. All I can think about is "welcome to the jungle".

AJ Drew · Dec 29, 2014

The thing that strikes me is how clean and organized you are. Yes, the list is wow but the order and appearance is 2 x wow. My grow room has a concrete floor somewhere under the spilled potting mixtures. Not sure hwo far down it is but joke about making rows.

JJJessee · Dec 29, 2014

I quickly found out that socket-ed trays were WAY easier to manage than say a jungle of solo cups.
I used 3.5" square deep pots last year (Jan-May) and they were getting root bound by plant-out, but recovered.
Some got up-potted to 5.5" but too little to late to help much.
Anyway's a 1020 tray of 3.5" will hold 18 plants, A bank of 4x4' fluorescents will cover 4 trays or 72 plants, but really crowded. after 2 months.
I ended up putting 9 plants to a tray to give them elbow room.
Gonna grow any tomatoes?

coachspencerxc · Dec 29, 2014

JJJessee said:
Gonna grow any tomatoes?

Thanks for the spacing info. I think largesr than 4" squares is going to have to happen eventually, but wonder if I can go smaller (Solo) as the intermediate stage. Thing I like about the square ones is they were made for the 1020s & fit perfectly (to ajdrew's point about organization). Seems like the Solo cups would be a little unstable & easy to knock over. Wonder how many I can get in a 1020. Thanks again. Oh- tomatoes, yeah but not an obsessive number. 8 varieties of seed I think. 2-3 plants of each. Won't start until later.

ajdrew said:
The thing that strikes me is how clean and organized you are. Yes, the list is wow but the order and appearance is 2 x wow. My grow room has a concrete floor somewhere under the spilled potting mixtures. Not sure hwo far down it is but joke about making rows.

I'm using my kitchen so it's gotta be a little tidier.

Thanks!