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Completely Overwhelmed by Potting Mix Choices

SeamusMartin

SeamusMartin

Hello all, this is my first post on the forum, though I've been a silent observer (stalker) for quite a while now. I've been doing my very best to be self sufficient, and have managed to find solutions to all of my questions/problems without actually asking any questions... Until now...

I guess I'll start from the very beginning. Prior to this year I've never grown ANYTHING in my entire life, though I have a habit of going overboard anytime I get involved in a project, and this was no different. Being a first time grower, I did not know about the evils of Miracle Grow, and have been using MG Organic Choice w/ some perlite, vermiculite, and bone meal, and using diluted fish fertilizer once every week or so, all with seemingly great results (other than a TON of gnats) . I've got 27 plants in total, including 8 bhuts, and almost all of them are spitting out peppers faster than I could have ever hoped for. I am at the point now where I am ready to move the kids into 5 gallon+ pots, but am completely lost in terms of selecting the ideal soil mix to use. I know that ProMix BX is one of the most widely recommended options, but between the 3 hour drive I would have to make in order to get it, coupled with the fact that I am dirt friggin' poor, makes me think that I could either (A) go with another brand which might be available closer to home and is of comparable quality or (B) make it myself. I would love to go organic as well, so I guess there's another reason why Promix just might not be the right choice for me.

In terms of making it myself, I am completely overwhelmed by the number of different mixes, and cannot even begin to decide on what to use. For this, I humbly turn to all of you for your advice and opinions, all are welcome and appreciated.

(If it helps or is at all relevant, I am located in the northeast (coastal Rhode Island), and will be utilizing a greenhouse and/or artificial lighting this fall and winter.)


Thank you all in advance for any and all help, and I'll be sure to get some pictures up soon, I'm about as proud of a parent as any gardener could be and have been dying for a chance to show them off to someone other than my girlfriend and our cat, neither of whom seem to care much...
 
I'll toss myself in with the not sure what to pot with. FYI I live in Michigan where we have grow shops every 2 miles so I have easy a acess to the stuff they grow weed in. and they hook me up below cost.
 
First off, welcome to the forum! Miracle Grow can work, but there are definately better alternatives. Promix is great, same with Fafard's if you can get it. You can't go wrong with either, but both are a bit pricey though. You can try a local nursery to see what they have. I do a large number of plants so it is more economical for me to make my own. For each 5 gal bucket I use:

2 gal Peat moss
1 gal Mushroom Compost
1 gal Aged Pine Bark fines (soil conditioner)
1 gal Perlite

TO this mix, add about 1/2 cup ground dolomite lime, 1/2 cup Slow release fertilizer (I used Espoma Tomato Tone). I also added 1 cup of earthworm castings. They are expensive as well, but WELL worth the money. Plants love them.

Others may have different ideas about what works for them. There is no 1 right way to grow the plants. Important part is to enjoy it.

Hope this helps!
jacob
 
:welcome: to THP!

I'm still very new to growing myself as I started last year... and within that year I have learned a great deal and still have a ton of information to still learn. I was in the same boat you were about the mixes and my first peppers were in Miracle Grow. After learning about different things I finally went with Fox Farm Ocean and have been nothing but pleased with the results I received from that last year and with the results I have this year with peppers, herbs and various veg. One important lesson I have learned though is what works best for me may not work best for someone else. It's all going to come down to trying things out and seeing what works for you. All in all, have fun growing!

-J

ps... stop teasing about the bhuts, pictures or it didn't happen haha
 
Yeah, IMO potting mixes suck... they are confusing, not to mention they're expensive as hell. :(

This year I got some big bags of dirt-cheap "topsoil" (39 cents per 1.5 cu. ft. bag) and added several cups of perlite, and with suggestions from people on this board I also added some Sphagnum peat moss to further lighten the mix. I'm still waiting to see how things turn out, but the plants are all still growing. Fertilized them only once so far, just after transplanting, with some "all purpose" higher-nitrogen fertilizer. Just watered them earlier (without fertilizer), and the next time I water them they'll be getting "tomato" fertilizer (less N vs. P+K).

I have tried Miracle-Gro's Moisture Control potting mix with nothing but success (a couple rocks and pieces of bark here and there to toss though), but I've used their Organic Choice and it sucked (even more loaded with wood chips). I can't find Pro-Mix here, and if I did I wouldn't be able to get it at the ridiculous price it would cost.
 
the soil I use in my containers starts with premium soil I get from a recycler about a mile from my house...its dirt cheap (pun intended) @ 17.50 yd...it is 60% compost/40% cushion sand...I use two parts of that and one part of a good potting mix...thats for the first year...

I reuse my soil each year and all I do is add about 20% new potting mix to the old soil and some 13-13-13 peletized fertilizer...I make it up a wheel barrow at a time and will put about 3 handfuls of the fertilize in then mix it up really good...

don't know if that helped or not...
 
i planned on growing these in door year round wasnt sure about outside soil i dont want tons of bugs n stuff in it
 
SeamusMartin said:
Hello all, this is my first post on the forum, though I've been a silent observer (stalker) for quite a while now. I've been doing my very best to be self sufficient, and have managed to find solutions to all of my questions/problems without actually asking any questions... Until now...

I guess I'll start from the very beginning. Prior to this year I've never grown ANYTHING in my entire life, though I have a habit of going overboard anytime I get involved in a project, and this was no different. Being a first time grower, I did not know about the evils of Miracle Grow, and have been using MG Organic Choice w/ some perlite, vermiculite, and bone meal, and using diluted fish fertilizer once every week or so, all with seemingly great results (other than a TON of gnats) . I've got 27 plants in total, including 8 bhuts, and almost all of them are spitting out peppers faster than I could have ever hoped for. I am at the point now where I am ready to move the kids into 5 gallon+ pots, but am completely lost in terms of selecting the ideal soil mix to use. I know that ProMix BX is one of the most widely recommended options, but between the 3 hour drive I would have to make in order to get it, coupled with the fact that I am dirt friggin' poor, makes me think that I could either (A) go with another brand which might be available closer to home and is of comparable quality or (B) make it myself. I would love to go organic as well, so I guess there's another reason why Promix just might not be the right choice for me.

In terms of making it myself, I am completely overwhelmed by the number of different mixes, and cannot even begin to decide on what to use. For this, I humbly turn to all of you for your advice and opinions, all are welcome and appreciated.

(If it helps or is at all relevant, I am located in the northeast (coastal Rhode Island), and will be utilizing a greenhouse and/or artificial lighting this fall and winter.)


Thank you all in advance for any and all help, and I'll be sure to get some pictures up soon, I'm about as proud of a parent as any gardener could be and have been dying for a chance to show them off to someone other than my girlfriend and our cat, neither of whom seem to care much...
Click to expand...

To start, welcome! :)
Very nice grow list and sounds like your doing well, Congrats!
Now as far as your questions:
Organic Choice...don't use. I myself use some MG products but Organic Choice is the last choice I would use for dirt. Tried it once and its horrible. It may have done ok for you, but I seriously would get away from it.
As far as nats, those are probably fungus nats and can cause serious issues. They will get down in soil and start eating at your roots so better get rid of them. Cinnamon will work.

Torno said it best, what works for one person may not work for you. I have and do use Miracle Grow Moisture Control but mainly use a soil that is made here in Ohio.
AJ's soil obviously works very well because he has some of the best plants on THP and is very well respected.

As far as what to use, I guess look around at the different mixes on here, determine was is available in your area and go from there. It sounds like your doing very well all on your own anyway.

Good luck in your growing season.
 
Here is a link on the "THP" by LGHT.
It's full of useful information and many alterative.

http://www.thehotpepper.com/topic/10245-all-about-soil-a-great-resource-i-thought-i-would-share/

Good luck!!
 
Greetings, and welcome...

As you noted, ProMix would be the first choice for a potting mix. Sounds like it's a long drive to acquire it, but the results would be probably be well worth it.

If you're not going to use ProMix, then it basically boils down to two choices: buy some potting mix, or make your own batch.

The problem with making your own potting mix is two-fold: it could end up too heavy (i.e. poor drainage), if, for example, you use too much topsoil or other heavy medium; OR it could end up with the wrong pH if, for example, you overdo it on the peat. It's kind of easy to end up blowing it, imho. Buying a bag of perlite to toss into the mix would probably help a lot if you decide to roll your own, as it will help with the drainage.

Or, you could just go buy some pre-made stuff, like at Home Depot. One thing you can get there that's pretty good is Scott's Premium Potting Mix. I use that whenever I run out of ProMix. Things don't grow as well in Scotts as they do in ProMix, but that's a given - things grow better in ProMix than any alternative. But Scott's Potting Mix is not bad. Again, chucking a few handfuls of perlite into it can be helpful, if you have it on hand.

There is nothing wrong with Miracle Grow as long as you stay away from Miracle Grow Organic. MG Organic is true garbage. That crap should not be sold. In addition to things just not growing right in it, it has a ginormous gnat problem. MG Organic comes loaded with gnats, which are super-annoying, and other crawly things too. Regular MG does not have that problem, AFAIK. As long as you stay away from MG Organic, you should be fine with any potting mix from Home Depot or Lowes.
 
Seamus...you have gotten some VERY good advice here. It's hard to take it all in until you have actually experienced everything for yourself, and know exactly what we mean. It's all GREAT advice!
JJS and AJ hit it right on the head. AJ has his own VERY detailed mixture, but would be hard to duplicate EXACTLY. JJS grows AWESOME peppers as well. The mixture he gace you is a VERY good mixture. And again, like Torno and Mmc said, what works for one may not work best for YOU. The cool thing about peppers (and other veggies, I'm sure) is that if it doesn't work this year, there will always be NEXT year! If you grow in pots, you can try different mixtures in different pots. That will help you skip a few years! Just make sure you don't use TOO much fertilizer. It's best to start with just a little, then add. Too much will kill your babies. And that Tomato Tone is AWESOME! TONS of good ferts out there either way.
 
jjs7741 said:
First off, welcome to the forum! Miracle Grow can work, but there are definately better alternatives. Promix is great, same with Fafard's if you can get it. You can't go wrong with either, but both are a bit pricey though. You can try a local nursery to see what they have. I do a large number of plants so it is more economical for me to make my own. For each 5 gal bucket I use:

2 gal Peat moss
1 gal Mushroom Compost
1 gal Aged Pine Bark fines (soil conditioner)
1 gal Perlite

TO this mix, add about 1/2 cup ground dolomite lime, 1/2 cup Slow release fertilizer (I used Espoma Tomato Tone). I also added 1 cup of earthworm castings. They are expensive as well, but WELL worth the money. Plants love them.
Click to expand...

I don't know where he lives, but in my neck of the woods pine bark fines are non-existent. They don't even exist in people's imaginations (except mine). Ask anyone at a nursery or garden center, they will look at you like your hair is on fire, then point you to giant pine bark nuggets if they have them. Then when you walk that direction they will run and hide inside a 50 gallon rain water collector until you leave. I finally found some bags of pine bark mulch that weren't big nuggets and sifted to get all the little pieces out for my blueberry plants. That sounds like a good mix though.
 
What makes you want to "go organic"? I don't really get the whole organic thing, no one can agree on what it means and it is such an arbitrary thing. What does it matter if the calcium comes from ground up bone or from calcium nitrate? There are no carbon atoms attached to it so you shouldn't use it?

Pro Mix BX isn't listed as inorganic, according to what I've read, because it has an inorganic wetting agent and some minerals like calcium from inorganic sources. That's it. There is nothing harmful or insidious in it and it works great. I can understand wanting to keep things natural, or use things that are sustainable, or avoid pesticides, but cyanide is organic. So is nicotine. It's not as if "organic" things are inherently good and "inorganic" things are inherently bad.

Of course, they're your plants and you're free to do whatever you want with them. If you want to be completely organic, whatever your definition is, then more power to you, but I guess I just don't really understand the point.

Plus a lot the hard core organic people smell their own farts and contribute to smug alerts.*

*South Park reference, don't get offended anyone :D
 
Avon Barksdale said:
What makes you want to "go organic"? I don't really get the whole organic thing, no one can agree on what it means and it is such an arbitrary thing. What does it matter if the calcium comes from ground up bone or from calcium nitrate? There are no carbon atoms attached to it so you shouldn't use it?

Pro Mix BX isn't listed as inorganic, according to what I've read, because it has an inorganic wetting agent and some minerals like calcium from inorganic sources. That's it. There is nothing harmful or insidious in it and it works great. I can understand wanting to keep things natural, or use things that are sustainable, or avoid pesticides, but cyanide is organic. So is nicotine. It's not as if "organic" things are inherently good and "inorganic" things are inherently bad.

Of course, they're your plants and you're free to do whatever you want with them. If you want to be completely organic, whatever your definition is, then more power to you, but I guess I just don't really understand the point.

Plus a lot the hard core organic people smell their own farts and contribute to smug alerts.*

*South Park reference, don't get offended anyone :D
Click to expand...

I love south park! No offense taken :)
 
Hey all, thanks for all the input. First of all, AJ and JJS, I'll definitely have your suggestions in at least a few of my pots, from what I've read about you two you're doing something right...

Next, let me assure all of you that having fun is not at all an issue, and I've been enjoying every single moment of this process from the very beginning until now, or at least up until the point when I realized my soil was essentially dog turds in a bag. After just a few months of growing and learning, I'm seriously considering going back to school (really Seamus, AGAIN?!?) for horticulture of some sort. Just moments ago I literally called out of work so I would have an opportunity to take plenty of pictures for Torno, I'll make sure there nice and graphic for ya :eek:

As far as LGHT's link goes, while it is by far the most helpful resource I've seen, it's just too many choices for me at this point. I know well that the best choice is ultimately whatever works for me, but I don't think I have the time or resources to play around with that many mixes. I've probably read that post about 13 times top too bottom, but I just can't seem to come up with a final decision.


AS for why I'd like organic v. inorganic, well... um... I don't know? Avon, I think you pretty much nailed it. "There are no carbon atoms attached to it so you shouldn't use it?" I love the idea of all fertilizers/nutes being of the Earth, and plan to use only homemade fertilizers in the future, but its not like I'll be getting certified organic anytime soon. Your argument was definitely a big help, like a few good slaps to the face when you're getting sleepy. That's the problem with living on the coast, smug never gets a chance to accumulate to the point of being noticeable, the jet stream just blows it all over to Europe and we continue to go about smelling our own farts, blissfully unaware...

Anyway I need to leave the house before my girlfriend realizes I'm back on THP and not "sending out a quick email before work", I'll have the pics up in a few hours. Thanks again all, and keep the answers coming!!
 
Yup every1 here has nailed it...
but srsly its just a veggie they will grow in about anything with the right care

i like yourself was 3 hrs away from any pro mix and ordering online was plain retarded so i ventured out to look at local stores nurserys ect. 1 of my largest plants is in a STA-GREEN(not made by scotts)moisture max(LOWES store brand) i have 5 in some OSMOCOTE i got at Theisens but im sure its sold elsewhere all doing very very well and i have 1 is some expensive fafard its not doing any better or worse then the rest i did add more perlite to these pre made mixes you can see my plants inmy log

a large greenhouse/nursery in the nearby larger city also had a home brand that they said was made by sungro a very good company so you may want to ask around for something like that

just get yourself o bag of something other than MG organic chioce :P and add some perlite to it, i jsut filled the bucket with mix then dumped it into a larger bin and added perlite and mixed it up till i liked it about 3 cups i think
:cheers:
happy growing
 
many, many soil choices are definitely out there...organic vs. non...meeeehhhhh...to me "organic" when used in association with plants/food is just another buzz word that companies/individuals have come up with to charge more for their products...is there merit to it?...maybe, but I have been eating nonorganic stuff for 62 years and think I am OK....

throwing all the brands and types aside, here is what you need IMO...there are a couple of these that maybe could switch places as far as priority goes but I have tried to list them in order of descending importance.

1. Lightweight growing media...I say growing media because of all the different types out there...like coir, peat, dirt, etc...you do not want the media to compact because it will inhibit the root growth...and remember, the bigger, healthier rootball the bigger, healthier plant.

2. Well drained...you want your soil to drain fairly quickly only retaining the moisture the plant needs...remember peppers don't like wet feet...I found out about root rot the hard way...I lost over 90 plants 3 summers ago because I was watering when the top of the soil looked dry...plants started dying and when I pulled the rootball out of the container, the bottom was sopping wet mud...lesson learned...

3. Organic material and organisms to break down the organic material - unless you are growing hydro or some other way than in "dirt", you need organic material in your soil...the easiest solution to this is plain ol' compost...but if your compost is "new" it may be too "hot" for your plants and they will stunt so you have to figure out what percent compost to use in your soil...if you need to put mycorrhizae in your soil, you can buy the innoculents online...

I am sure there are other things you must consider when "building" your soil but as has already been said, you need to find out what works for you...experimentation is the root of knowledge...
 
I've got a very non-scientific experiment going in my backyard right now, i have plants in MG, Shultz, and a local brand. Also 75% of my plants are in my own mix 0.5yard P moss, 0.5yard Vermiculite, 10lb bone meal, 5 lb blood meal, 5 lb limestone. So far the plants in my mix are WAY happier than any of the other mixes. There is nothing wrong with the pre made mixes but as stated above there are better alternatives out there
 
As promised...


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