• Do you need help identifying a 🌶?
    Is your plant suffering from an unknown issue? 🤧
    Then ask in Identification and Diagnosis.

Concerning sudden leaf problems.. suspect over fert

queequeg152 said:
you are probably right that you do not need additional calcium, but in case you want to try... calcium nitrate is like 2 bucks a lb on ebay here in the US.
Click to expand...
Adding extra calcium on top of an abundance risks locking up magnesium.

Don't do that.
 
solid7 said:
 
I was thinking more along the lines of a living soil.  Organic ferts have to be broken down by microbes, so there is not going to be an instantaneous effect.  Additionally, if you've already used a "regular" fertilizer, the organic ferts are useless.
I used to grow conventionally in-ground, but started organic soil, then organic container, and I'll never go back.  Not preaching, just discovered how nice it is to never have any more problems with deficiency this or that.  I'd be happy to help set you on that path for next season.  I used to battle the same sorts of issues that you're trying to diagnose.
Click to expand...
 
This is my 5th year growing chilies and only the second time I've had a fertilizer problem... I've used the same compost from the same people year in year out, its normally pretty good (without the need for extra fertilizer). I'm really not sure why i even put fertilizer in my younger plant's now  :confused: Maybe it was because my Scorps where in serious need's of nutrients so i thought i better give the others a load too.
This year i'm keeping all of my plant's smaller containers, factoring in the size they've grown and with the yellow edges on some leaves, i guess i was over concerned and didn't think about it... now my plants are a little worse for wear and probably been set back 3-4 weeks.
 
These are the guys that i use for compost.
 
http://www.johninnes.info/index.htm
 
scotchnaga85 said:
This is my 5th year growing chilies and only the second time I've had a fertilizer problem... I've used the same compost from the same people year in year out, its normally pretty good (without the need for extra fertilizer). I'm really not sure why i even put fertilizer in my younger plant's now  :confused: Maybe it was because my Scorps where in serious need's of nutrients so i thought i better give the others a load too.
This year i'm keeping all of my plant's smaller containers, factoring in the size they've grown and with the yellow edges on some leaves, i guess i was over concerned and didn't think about it... now my plants are a little worse for wear and probably been set back 3-4 weeks.
 
These are the guys that i use for compost.
 
http://www.johninnes.info/index.htm
Click to expand...
Ever tried using aerated compost teas? Or, short of that, just watering with molasses?

The most fertilizer I'll use now, is fish and seaweed.
 
queequeg152 said:
 
 yea im honestly suprised you have so much free calcium? i am assuming that number represents calcium 2+, but i could be wrong. 
 
you are probably right that you do not need additional calcium, but in case you want to try... calcium nitrate is like 2 bucks a lb on ebay here in the US.
 
 
regading PH.
 
yes hard water can drastically increase soil alkalinity and ph, but only if you do not allow for sufficient runoff. always shoot for like 10% runoff.  this runoff should be a 2.5ish EC no higher, for peppers anyway.
 
i cannot comment on miracle grows effect on ph because i do not use it. my gut tells me this fert would acidify soil conditions, and is probably acidic to start with.
ammonium, as plants take it up, release a hydronium ion( H+, or h3o+ ). 
 
This is why so many ferts have approx. 1% ammonium.  This 1% ammonium is supposed to offset the tendency of solutions and soil environments to slowly turn basic from sulfates etc. 
Click to expand...
 
I'm not surprised at all.. the water reservoirs are stored in chalk downs. Some times the tap water can come really chalky looking, the picture below was what was coming out the taps at work a few back. Admittedly that was quite an extreme example hence me taking pictures of it  :surprised:  :P
 
10155066_10203512748808795_1703517850_n_zpseb613965.jpg

 
What is meant by run off? Is that how much water comes out the bottom of the pot after watering? I read today something about how to collectively apply fertz and run off was mentioned.
 
The miracle grow was used with great results on my 2 TS okay with my second year Naga, but only once with a few of my others (can't remember which ones)... The tomato feed buggered them. So regards the fertz and p.h.
 
I think i migh shop around for a soil tester, i'm not sure how effective though it would be with plants that are pots.. Logically think i would have thought the strongest PH would be at the base.
solid7 said:
Ever tried using aerated compost teas? Or, short of that, just watering with molasses?

The most fertilizer I'll use now, is fish and seaweed.
Click to expand...
 
My plants are always in pot's so its quite difficult to add extra to them. We simply just don't have the climate here to grow them in the ground :( I have put pine needles around the base of a pot bound blueberry shrub to increase soil acidity.
 
Molasses? Can i ask what benefits that has. :confused:
 
scotchnaga85 said:
My plants are always in pot's so its quite difficult to add extra to them. We simply just don't have the climate here to grow them in the ground :( I have put pine needles around the base of a pot bound blueberry shrub to increase soil acidity.
 
Molasses? Can i ask what benefits that has. :confused:
Click to expand...
No need to add extra.

There is a great thread in one of the forum stickies about aerated compost tea. Read that. Compost teas are a game changer.

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/32001-beginners-guide-to-aactcompost-tea/
 
solid7 said:
Adding extra calcium on top of an abundance risks locking up magnesium.

Don't do that.
Click to expand...
100ppm calcium is not an abundance.
 
most formulations ive studies suggest calcium in excess of 150mg/L
ive seen formulations at 220mg/l calcium infact.
 
 
and how does calcium lockout magnesium? you must be thinking of a precipitation reaction between carbonate and magnesium.... this would require ungodly concentrations far and above what you would normally use.
 
mag, and calcium are metals, they do not interact to form any ionic species what so ever. 
scotchnaga85 said:
 
I'm not surprised at all.. the water reservoirs are stored in chalk downs. Some times the tap water can come really chalky looking, the picture below was what was coming out the taps at work a few back. Admittedly that was quite an extreme example hence me taking pictures of it  :surprised:  :P
 
 
What is meant by run off? Is that how much water comes out the bottom of the pot after watering? I read today something about how to collectively apply fertz and run off was mentioned.
 
The miracle grow was used with great results on my 2 TS okay with my second year Naga, but only once with a few of my others (can't remember which ones)... The tomato feed buggered them. So regards the fertz and p.h.
Click to expand...
 i had to google chaulk downs... damn.
 
runoff is exactly what you think it is. the solution coming out of the bottom of the container.
if the runoff is excessivly high, one can reasonably assume the soil is excessivly high as well.
 
hey if you can get away with miracle grow, more power to you. Its dirt cheap. what ever works for you.
 
regarding PH, you could try getting some litmus papers ( hate to see you spend a chunk of cash on a meter) ... but most soil runoffs are not transparent enough. perhaps you could process some runoff through a stack of coffe filters to clear them up enough to get an idea of the ph. 
 
If your ratio of Cal to Mag is off, one absolutely will lock out the other. If "lock out" is not a desirable teem for you, then perhaps "toxicity" would be better for you.
 
not true.
 
epstien (if i recall correctly) suggested that proper ratios MAXIMIZE plant growth, by allowing the plants to uptake nutrients more efficiently, however its well known that plants can adapt to any number of variable macro nutrient ratios without 'locking' anything out. 
 
to the best of my knowlage, a 'lockout', or 'pushout', solely refers to the act of precipitating insolubles. calcium sulfate being probably the most common. even calcium sulfate however, requires HUGE amounts of sulfate, with respect to what is considered optimum levels. 
 
i think 80ml/L sulfate is what is in my usual fert, regime.
 
you need soemthing like 500mg/l sulfate, in solution to begin to even approach conditions, under normal Ph, wherein calcium sulfate begins to precipitate.
 
suggesting that going from say, 100mg/l free calcium, to 200mg/l could 'lockout' magnesium is absurd.
 
These last couple of posts have gone way over my head.

I will seek out the litmus paper, thank you :) maybe the local chemist will have some seeing the garden store doesn't.
 
try amazon or ebay.
 
i hate to get too into depth with what is an otherwise simple deal... but FWIW whatman is like, the laboratory standard for litmus paper. its the costliest, but can be had on ebay for cheap.
i personally buy the cheap crap, hydrion or w.e. it is.
 
there are also so called, indicator strips, that incorporate a series of pads that you have to color match to a chart. these are considered more accurate, but ive never used them personally.
 
beware of the so called narrow range papers. some of them are meant for very special use cases such as testing urine, and may not function correctly in plain aqueous solutions.
 
I picked up moisture/ ph tester today at pretty good price.

However regarding litmus paper, how does one go about testing the ph of the soil in pot bound plants? Do you measure the ph of the water running of at a watering or is it done another way?

:)
 
First I tested the new gizmos accuracy against a bag of the compost I use, the ph reading was as it should have been.

The compost unused has a ph 5-6 - slightly acidic.

After testing my plants I found most had 6-7 with a few having high 7's.

There was plant in a 7 inch pot that acidic base soil but as I slowly brought the device up the soil became increasingly neutral/ alkaline.

The plants with the now clear signs of fertalizer burn seemed to have the higher ph levels, with exception to one TS plant that seems to be thriving without fert damage and a ph of 6/7.
 
eh, this moisture meter is probably one of those deals with two probes you stick into the ground?
 
those are about as inaccurate as can be.
 
to test with litmus paper, simply water your plants with some distilled water and collect the runoff.
 
ideally you should only generate just the runoff required for a test. However, as your runoff is likely colored, you should try passing it through a stack of  coffee filters first. coffee filters obviously will absorb significant amounts of moisture... so collect like 100ml at least i would guess.
 
adding excessive volumes of distilled water to your plants, will not only give you innacurate results, but it will also wash out what ever fertilizer charge you have.
 
First i would like to share some pod pictures, then a question :)

First up is a 'yellow 7 pod'
 
IMG_4767_zps86e2f036.jpg

 
Brain Strain
 
IMG_4768_zps9142c5f6.jpg

 
Moruga's
 
IMG_4769_zps9c70d9bb.jpg

IMG_4771_zpse9fa7f7f.jpg

 
Trinidad Scorps
 
IMG_4779_zps58af358b.jpg

IMG_4782_zps0a02f915.jpg

IMG_4783_zpscc2555a4.jpg

IMG_4786_zps3f43f15f.jpg

 
Dorset Naga
 
IMG_4788_zps5bac4a34.jpg

 
Bengle Naga
 
IMG_4794_zpsfb434f27.jpg


Now for the question.
 
Will the copper oxychloride i'm using for fungus control also provide copper to the plant if it gets into the soil??
 
Some of my plants got leafs that looks like that. I added Calcium Nitrate, epsom salt and humus. After some time all the new leafs looks fine. I think the best thing to add to soil is humus.
 
pwb said:
Some of my plants got leafs that looks like that. I added Calcium Nitrate, epsom salt and humus. After some time all the new leafs looks fine. I think the best thing to add to soil is humus.
Click to expand...
 
I've added a layer or Sphagnum Moss to the pots and have ordered some Calcium Nitrate :) 
 
scotchnaga85 said:
 
I've added a layer or Sphagnum Moss to the pots and have ordered some Calcium Nitrate :)
Click to expand...
 
by in large i still think your plants look ok. be careful with the calcium nitrate, you probably dont need more than a 100mg/l drench imho.
 
IDK about the copper, its a good question. spray at night, when the stomata are open, if feeding is your goal.
 
queequeg152 said:
 
by in large i still think your plants look ok. be careful with the calcium nitrate, you probably dont need more than a 100mg/l drench imho.
 
IDK about the copper, its a good question. spray at night, when the stomata are open, if feeding is your goal.
Click to expand...
It's primarily for the yellow 7.

This plant had issues before the suspected fert overdose. The leaves/ upper stems on new growth are continuesly wilted, there has been very little growth from this plant recently and some of the wilted stuff has died off.
This plant also happens to be in a pot with the highest PH reading.. Neigh on a ph 8.

I will try a little calcium and see how it responds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top