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breeding Cross Pollination

Regardless of who believes what. The proof of the pudding is in the eating or in this case the proof of the chilli is in the growing.
To my knowledge I do not know of anyone getting a cross or something other then what they ordered from Neil@ thsc so if indeed they do not seperate to stop cross pollination then it would seem in 99.9% of cases it is probably not necessary anyway.
 
Yea they are good guys at least they were to me.I was like your classic rookie with a 1000 questions and they answered every one of them. I ordered 2 collections each consisting of 4 varities once I received them one of them was absent one of the varities it was supposed to come with it had another instead . So they sent it to me no charge well then it never showed up lost in the mail or something well they sent it again no questions asked. They have a great reputation, I have no problems with them whatsoever. I fully intend on using them again unless my seeds don't grow true lol!'

Yea they are good guys at least they were to me.I was like your classic rookie with a 1000 questions and they answered every one of them. I ordered 2 collections each consisting of 4 varities once I received them one of them was absent one of the varities it was supposed to come with it had another instead . So they sent it to me no charge well then it never showed up lost in the mail or something well they sent it again no questions asked. They have a great reputation, I have no problems with them whatsoever. I fully intend on using them again unless my seeds don't grow true lol!'

How did that post twice ?
 
Spankyscolts said:
Harry I'm not sure what you're looking for but I had planned to grow as many varities as I could with the intention of selling some of the seeds to support the effort.
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I was wondering if it was something that had been mentioned in a forum post. There are possible consequences a vendor may have to deal with on the occasion that seed does not grow true.

Spankyscolts said:
I bought a bunch of seeds from Hippy and through the course of many emails asked them several questions several concerning cross pollination because I was worried about it and Neil said something to the effect that according to his expert that it wasn't that big a problem, he further stated which I didn't understand that he couldn't properly explain it but if I could look under a miricscope I wouls see and understand. Wasn't really clear what that meant but he said that they grow many varities and have no problems. He told me in effect that I didn't need to worry about it. I'm not looking to stir anything up I like those guys they were good to me.
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It is difficult to come up with a guide for how likely cross pollination is to occur. I had come across two instances of cross pollination here up to today. I was watching bees visit a Datil plant followed by a visit to a Habanero plant.

Spankyscolts said:
I'm sure if you were to email and ask like I did he'd give you the same answer. This is all from memory but it didn't seem right to me as I had been told different. Email him and ask him if you should worry about cross pollination growing different varities together. Why what kind of problems have you had ? Have you gotten crossed seeds from them? I have about 10 varities from them so I'd like to know lol. I'm starting in Feb. and if I need to replace these I'd like to know now.
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The issues of authenticity I have are with another supplier. I chose that supplier in part due to the statement about how they avoid cross pollination. The issue of cross pollination trickled down the supply chain from the supplier's supplier.

Knowing whether seed has been produced from isolated flowers/plants may influence your choice in how many plants to grow. Growing more plants reduces the odds of ending up with a hybrid assuming the seed came from many pods.
 
Harry do you have experience with growing many plants and types at once? I'm just looking to be wise so if and when I sell seeds I can offer a pure product also Whatever measures I need to take I'd like them to be as cost effective as possible. This might not be a large undertaking for others but for me it's Hugh. The truth is that I had hoped to n

.. not only fund my effort but make some extra cash. Growing and specifically growing peppers has been a hobbie which is how I settled on this venture but my motivation is a bit personal in that my wife has been sick for about 3 yrs now and the Drs haven't been able to figure out what's wrong meanwhile we have exhausted our savings, she's been out of work and the bills are stacking up, thank God for credit cards lol.So in the end I was hoping to make some extra cash to help us get by. Any light you can shed from experience would be greatly appreciated Thanks
; )

Well guys n

ot sure were you all are from but here in Oregon it's 11:30 pm so I'm gonna call it a night !
 
This is talked about alot.. some people don't take it seriously.. Some people take it TOO seriously.. Honestly. I don't think it's a big deal. I've seen before joining, and after joining THP, people stating they have had problems with vendors that claim they isolate everything.. I mean think about it.. plants need to be 1/2-1mile apart?? By doing that, are you going door to door in a square mile radius making sure no ones growing peppers in their backyards? making sure wilds aren't growing in the area? Isolation is really near impossible unless it's indoors and your only growing one variety in each room. I know that every major grower on THP doesn't isolate their seeds for the most part and everyones selling/trading all the time in the fall and 99% of the time it goes true..

I'm going to be putting mesh bags over branches that I know will be producing and I STILL will be advertising they were open pollinated. If you advertise pure seeds you better walk the talk.. I've never heard of one company (that claims they isolate) that hasn't had atleast a little problem with crossing. Just the way it is.

I'd honestly like to buy seeds that I knew were OP and get a cross/hybrid than buy "pure" seeds and get a cross/hybrid.. Atleast with OP seeds I know there's a potential of them being something else. If I payed high dollar for "pure seeds" and they ended up being not what I bought.. I'd be pretty POed.

It's just like with ferts and soils.. Everyone will have a different opinion. Do what feels right for you.

90% of the seeds I just started were OP and I'm fine with that, I actually think it'd be cool to have something pop up that I wasn't planning on growing.. just my opinion.

Brandon
 
One thing nobody thinks about seems to be that a plant needs about 8 growouts in isolation to probably be stable.
Isolating a Hybrid could look pure for a few generations until it reverts to whatever.
A ton of super hots are called strains by people who only grew it for a season or 2.

I'm on the 4rth season of growing out a cross that for 3 seasons looked stable.
Not this year.Totally different animal this time.
All generations were from isolated seeds.

Especially with plants that have a lot of pod variations.
Hybrid vigor or?
Hard to know if a non isolated plant crossed or if it's hybrid genes are starting to show through.

It's a crap shoot these days with so many people jumping on the seed train,pod and powder sales for a lot of $.
Name anything that looks different so you can charge more...
 
Ya, if you're going to be making money selling seeds, I'd recommend growing and knowing your plants very well before hand. I personally don't usually even like to give away seeds until I've grown them for 2 or 3+ years to know exactly what I have and how they grow etc.
As for cross pollination I was like Neil once and was never concerned about it, but after getting a few unwanted crosses I realized that unless I can keep bees and other pollinating insects away that I could never guarantee purity which is bad for me and any potential customers/trades. As soon as someone gets a cross be prepared to hear a lot of bitching
 
Guys I have to thank you based on your input my partner and I are going take measures to isolate protect and keep the seeds pure. To us integrity is important. Not exactly sure but we will come up with a plan. Thanks everyone you have been most helpful!

BigCedar said:
This is talked about alot.. some people don't take it seriously.. Some people take it TOO seriously.. Honestly. I don't think it's a big deal. I've seen before joining, and after joining THP, people stating they have had problems with vendors that claim they isolate everything.. I mean think about it.. plants need to be 1/2-1mile apart?? By doing that, are you going door to door in a square mile radius making sure no ones growing peppers in their backyards? making sure wilds aren't growing in the area? Isolation is really near impossible unless it's indoors and your only growing one variety in each room. I know that every major grower on THP doesn't isolate their seeds for the most part and everyones selling/trading all the time in the fall and 99% of the time it goes true..

I'm going to be putting mesh bags over branches that I know will be producing and I STILL will be advertising they were open pollinated. If you advertise pure seeds you better walk the talk.. I've never heard of one company (that claims they isolate) that hasn't had atleast a little problem with crossing. Just the way it is.

I'd honestly like to buy seeds that I knew were OP and get a cross/hybrid than buy "pure" seeds and get a cross/hybrid.. Atleast with OP seeds I know there's a potential of them being something else. If I payed high dollar for "pure seeds" and they ended up being not what I bought.. I'd be pretty POed.

It's just like with ferts and soils.. Everyone will have a different opinion. Do what feels right for you.

90% of the seeds I just started were OP and I'm fine with that, I actually think it'd be cool to have something pop up that I wasn't planning on growing.. just my opinion.

Brandon
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Brandon on a side note what type of mix ate you transplanting into ?? I've yet to find anything that is both cost effective and satisfactory
 
I have got many seeds from neil and every strain i have grown so far seem to be exacly what i ordered, the yellow 7 look exacly like all the pics iv seen and same as the bhuts , all of his strains and when you look at the plants he grows there all together within a few metres. hundreds of growers from all around the world have bought seeds from neil and iv only ever read great things about his seeds.
I have grouped all plants from the same strain together and have the small groups in all corners of my yard to try and help with them not crossing as i want seeds for next year to be true to type.
 
Spankyscolts said:
Josh .. Lol I just posted my reply and completely missed your comment about tulle I think you called it can you tell me more about it and the process of using it as a cover?
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I apologize for taking so long to reply but...
Tulle comes in a variety of sizes and I believe grades as well. I bought a 1' wide roll of it from Walmart. Originally I measured out 18"-24" then folded that in half and sewed the two sides. This creates a bag that I secure with this stretchy plastic tie material they sell in the garden center at Home Depot. Last season I made the bags larger by sewing two 1' wide pieces together to make the bag almost 2' wide. I tried to go bigger because I have noticed a high rate of flower drop within the isolation bags. It did seem to help but I still had flower drop. I think that is one of the most frustrating parts of isolating for seeds. Sometimes pods just will not set inside the bags. I assume this is due to higher temperatures. Last season Justaguy covered entire plants. This is a little more tricky though because you either have to cover the plant before it flowers, mark the existing flowers, or remove the existing flowers. It sounds like you need more seeds than my method provides.
 
+1

smokemaster said:
One thing nobody thinks about seems to be that a plant needs about 8 growouts in isolation to probably be stable.
Isolating a Hybrid could look pure for a few generations until it reverts to whatever.
A ton of super hots are called strains by people who only grew it for a season or 2.

I'm on the 4rth season of growing out a cross that for 3 seasons looked stable.
Not this year.Totally different animal this time.
All generations were from isolated seeds.

Especially with plants that have a lot of pod variations.
Hybrid vigor or?
Hard to know if a non isolated plant crossed or if it's hybrid genes are starting to show through.

It's a crap shoot these days with so many people jumping on the seed train,pod and powder sales for a lot of $.
Name anything that looks different so you can charge more...
Click to expand...
 
I don't worry about cross pollination but then again I don't sell seeds. 90% of the seeds I'm growing came from plants grown among dozens of other varieties and so far none of them look unusual. I was actually hoping for some oddities but doesn't look like it's gonna happen this year. At a local garden sale last year a guy walked up to me as I was picking up some 25 cent habanero plants and we started talking peppers and then handed me a baggie full of seeds. He said he'd been growing and saving the seeds for 20 years. His method was to grow them, harvest whatever grew, and save a bunch of seeds. In 20 years he said he had rarely had any hybrids pop up.

If I paid for a particular seed and it didn't grow true I'd be a little peeved but personally I think most of the problems people have with "bad seed" is the result of dishonest vendors, not isolation practices (or lack of).
 
Its just a game of odds, and I hate gambling with hundreds+ of plants. I never used to worry either but now that I grow tonnes of plants, I get unwanted crosses all the time.
For me crosses are only interesting if I have the time and space to grow out dozens if not hundreds of hybrids plants for many years. Growing 1 or 2 hybrids can be fun and you'll learn a lot but this is definitely not how to create a new, better plant
 
POTAWIE said:
Its just a game of odds, and I hate gambling with hundreds+ of plants. I never used to worry either but now that I grow tonnes of plants, I get unwanted crosses all the time.
For me crosses are only interesting if I have the time and space to grow out dozens if not hundreds of hybrids plants for many years. Growing 1 or 2 hybrids can be fun and you'll learn a lot but this is definitely not how to create a new, better plant
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I suppose there is that less then 1% chance even when growing out 2-3 hybrids of getting the ultimate mix of genetics by chance ... or something incredibly unusual. I know it won't be stable but it could be used as a base for future crosses.
 
I guess there is always that very small chance of beating the odds(for 1 generation) but of over 50 of my f2 plants last year, only 1 was worth saving and the rest I considered rejects, but I guess it depends what you're after. Many just want something that looks different so they can name it and trade it, even if it has poor qualities. Some of my other f2 crosses, I had to start all over the next year since 50+ out of 50+ I considered duds but the next year I got desirable results from only 1 of 50+ f2 plants
 
It would be educational, and beneficial to the whole community if someone chronicled their progress growing out hybrids in detail.
 
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