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breeding Cross Pollination

Spankyscolts

Spankyscolts

I am about to undertake a big growing adventure,
starting about 30 varities. I want good seed from these plants but am concerned about cross pollination. I will be growing many of these plants close together although will sort as best I can and as space permits. I have heard different things about cross pollination some saying its a big problem others like Neil @ Hippy Seeds saying its not who is right. I heard from someone on this site that geographical location and the type

of season mattered . Should I take great measures to protect against this or is it not a big problem? Does anyone have any real world experience?

I accidently sent this before I was done pecking it out that's why it's in two parts lol
 
I've saved seed for years. Tomato and peppers are open pollinated. Meaning the flowers are selfing or self pollinating, you don't need bee activity or wind to pollinate the plants. All you need to do is shake the branches of the flowers to make sure they pollinate. That said........

Peppers will cross easily with other peppers grown in close proximity, even 20'-50'. Tomatoes on the other hand will not cross as easily, they can be grown within 5'-10' of each other with only a 5%-10% chance of a cross. Certain peppers will not cross, or not as easily, such as Rocoto.

If you want to maintain the integrity of the variety it would be best bag your blossoms or even bag the whole plant. But, remember to shake those branches as the flowers form so they self pollinate.

Hope this helps a little.
 
in general odds are pretty good (80% or so) your peppers won't cross-pollinate but if you want to be able to market the seed then you should isolate the plants (1/2 mile recommended by the experts) or bag/cover them in some way. i am going to grow out roughly 100 varieties this year with the intention of isolating 5-6 of them (i am on a big farm) and caging as many as i can at various points in the season.

i'll be spending a good part of this weekend (won't have time to do it in growing season) building cages out of pvc which i will then cover with a combination of shade cloth and window screen- they will be roughly 4 feet high by 6 or 8 feet long and 3 feet in depth to be able to hold a few plants of whatever variety they are covering at a given time.
 
Thanks for the replys have you guys ever grown seeds from plants you had the previous year that were grown amongst other varities ? I am trying to do this as I expensive as possible. Maybe grouping all the 7 strains together and keeping the superhots at my partners place and the not so hot stuff at mine? Just brain storming here lol
 
Spankyscolts said:
Thanks for the replys have you guys ever grown seeds from plants you had the previous year that were grown amongst other varities?
Click to expand...

Yep, every year. I am on my now 4th generation of Bhut Jolokia seeds that I aquired back in 2009 and they have grown true each season, I dont see why this season should be any different. I grow my super hots along the back fence of my yard where they get sun ALL DAY LONG and they do great. Each year I grow 5 plants per section in a 48 foot run. The ones seen here are Bhut Jolokia, Trinidad Scorpion Yellow, Trinidad Scorpion Red, 7 Pot Douglah and Jalapeno No Heat.
PepperRow3.jpg

This was my first year and I am still getting true seeds. Each year I save myself 15 seeds from the varieties I want the next year and sell the rest of the seeds online, so I am always growing the previous year's offspring.

From what I have read it is a mixed emotion on cross pollination. One fact is that pepper flowers have BOTH male and female parts, so they DO self pollinate. I read somewhere that unless it is an intentional cross, you dont have much risk. Supposedly according to the article I read by the time the flower opens it is already pollinated.
 
here's my put on the cross pollination subject...if you aren't selling seeds and don't have to guarantee their purity of strain, who cares...a few crosses will occur, but most will grow true...that is JMHO....
 
Crosses can be a real pain in the butt and a waste of a lot of time and space so I definitely like to isolate when possible, but you can also sometimes find a rare gem worth dehybridizing. I've heard a mile and a half distance apart to prevent bee cross pollination but how often is that practical. Try a site search, there are many different ways of isolation from glue or tea bags to bringing plants indoors or away from insects for a week or so during pollinating period
 
Humm even on this thread amongst pepper pros there seems to be a difference of opinion. I do intend to sell seeds to fund my ongoing hobby but the work and/or cost involved in keep a 100 or more plants pure seems prohibitive. Keep the comments coming especially you guys that have first hand experience
 
i have grown peppers from seed that was OP near other peppers and thus far had no cross-pollination problems. for my purposes of selling pods and generating seed for personal use this is fine. however, for seed you intend to market as pure it is my belief that you need to go the extra mile and isolate the plants.
 
I grow seed plants in buckets so they can be spaced further apart from the main pepper garden. I then make a small bag out of square piece of floating row cover material and staple it together on three sides. I pinch off all blooms that are presently on a strong branch before I tape the bag securely in place with duct tape. Once the branch has new flowers I'll give it a shake or two a day to help with pollination. I then let the peppers develop to maturity and harvest the branch. Works for me. Hope that helps.
 
Seems I'm gonna have to find away to cover each plant .. humm. Perhaps I could group all the 7 strains together, the Nagas, the Scorpions etc. Place each group on a different side of the house. Or make some type of lightweight bags out of thin mesh type material like Thule (I think) and the stake the pots and slip it over the stakes. Neil @ The Hippy Seed Co. said that based on info from their botanist they take no measures to protect from crossing and they sell tons of seeds never heard of any problems with their stuff? I have a grip of Caribbean Hananero and Cayenne seeds that I grew in close quarters with other varities I'm gonna grow some of them out to see how they turn out. This is a riddle I'm determined to master lol!!
 
with open pollinated varieties, cross pollination is always possible unless efforts to isolate are taken, however, with species that are self-pollinated such as the capsicum genus, cross pollination may not be that big of a problem but....do you want to sell seeds that you can not guarantee pure strain?

If I know a seed supplier does not isolate his seedstock plants, I will not buy from them and I always ask the question.
 
+1 AJ
There are tonnes of people selling seeds, thats extremely easy, but not a lot who grow there own isolated seeds. Pretty much every place I've ever purchased chile seeds from, I've had some sort of issue with purity. Those who don't isolate will not know they have a problem with seeds purity for at least 5 months and thats a lot of wasted time that could easily be avoided. There are many tecniques to increase your odds of purity and they have been discussed a lot here. If you want to isolate 100 plants its going to be very difficult but I'd probably just isolate in a greenhouse with bug netting on the doors and vents.
 
do you want to sell seeds that you can not guarantee pure strain?

^^QFT


the pepper seed market is already a mess with so much impure seed out there, people naming strains and selling them when they're not really strains to begin with, people rushing things to market to make a quick buck in the name of them being the new "hottest", etc, etc.- why contribute to furthering this? bite the bullet and isolate the plants somehow if you want to sell the seed.

your snippet from neil at hippy about not isolating sounds a whole lot like mommy said no so i'll go ask daddy...

not trying to be harsh, it's always nice to see more people making an effort. good luck with your venture.
 
What I started using last year was 1 and 5 gallon paint strainers, available from any of the big box stores. Not the cheapest way to go, but I can bag a whole branch with a bunch of flowers at one time, instead of one flower at a time.
 
POTAWIE said:
Crosses can be a real pain in the butt and a waste of a lot of time and space so I definitely like to isolate when possible, but you can also sometimes find a rare gem worth dehybridizing. I've heard a mile and a half distance apart to prevent bee cross pollination but how often is that practical. Try a site search, there are many different ways of isolation from glue or tea bags to bringing plants indoors or away from insects for a week or so during pollinating period
Click to expand...

I'm with Potawie it can be very frustrating to en up with something you were not expecting after so much time and effort. I isolate with tulle bags I sew myself. That process can be frustrating as well. Good luck.
 
I agree 100% about the need for seeds to be pure if you intend to sell. I know first hand the frustration of growing something only to find out it was not as advertised , only it wasn't from seed but rather Bhut Jolokia plants I bought from a reputable source. I take this very seriously as I don't want to peddle crap, it's not what I'm about. I started this thread to attempt to get facts because what Neil @ Hippy Seed said just didn't seem right and the more I hear the more I realize my gut instinct in that regard seems right. I talked with my partner today and we are working on some ideas to maintain purity which include using several locations to isolate , building a greenhouse using his carport, and covering with bags or mesh cages. It was a step I had hoped to avoid but quality is paramount so all that remains is to just make it happen. I am very grateful to all of you for your input you have been very helpful.Any ideas on a fabric that would be lightweight and easy to work with to make some type of covers? Is there something out there that is sold for this purpose. I read somewhere about a fabric called Thule .. does anyone have experience with it??

Josh .. Lol I just posted my reply and completely missed your comment about tulle I think you called it can you tell me more about it and the process of using it as a cover?
 
Spankyscolts said:
Neil @ The Hippy Seed Co. said that based on info from their botanist they take no measures to protect from crossing and they sell tons of seeds never heard of any problems with their stuff?
Click to expand...
Do you have a citation for this claim?

I've had more than my fair share of non-authentic paid for seeds from another vendor and hope this claim is not true.
 
Harry I'm not sure what you're looking for but I had planned to grow as many varities as I could with the intention of selling some of the seeds to support the effort. I bought a bunch of seeds from Hippy and through the course of many emails asked them several questions several concerning cross pollination because I was worried about it and Neil said something to the effect that according to his expert that it wasn't that big a problem, he further stated which I didn't understand that he couldn't properly explain it but if I could look under a miricscope I wouls see and understand. Wasn't really clear what that meant but he said that they grow many varities and have no problems. He told me in effect that I didn't need to worry about it. I'm not looking to stir anything up I like those guys they were good to me. I'm sure if you were to email and ask like I did he'd give you the same answer. This is all from memory but it didn't seem right to me as I had been told different. Email him and ask him if you should worry about cross pollination growing different varities together. Why what kind of problems have you had ? Have you gotten crossed seeds from them? I have about 10 varities from them so I'd like to know lol. I'm starting in Feb. and if I need to replace these I'd like to know now.
 
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